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Old 01-06-2013, 04:36 AM
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Helo Helo is offline
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Originally Posted by NovemberRain View Post
*That* is what caused all this fuss? Holy cow. Thanks for linking, I just didn't have the heart to look it up after I read Tait's. That was completely unworthy of the maelstrom it caused.

It was one woman, whining about a bad date. It is so not even close to character assassination.
When you publically denounce someone else in the way Bereznak did for the reasons she presents, I find it difficult to classify it as anything else.

What would the motivation be for attempting to publically humiliate a guy who, according to her own story, made the mistake of choosing an odd first-date venue? She never said anything about him being rude, nasty, or otherwise uncouth.

I didn't see anyone say that what she said was genius. She was saying she doesn't date nerds, a simple fact and preference to which she is perfectly entitled.
If that's your preference, that's totally fine and I dont think any rational person would fault it. What I have issues with was her approach.

She accused the guy of "infiltrating" a date then recoiled when she found out what he did as though he'd told her he was a convicted sex offender. I keep using the high-school metaphor for a reason; she reacted the way "popular girls" in high-school did when interacting with "nerds." She trashed him for no other reason than she felt he was beneath her because of what he chose to do with his time.

Can you explain to me exactly what was cruel about it? I also don't see the word 'loser' anywhere in her article.
Her writing has the net effect of calling the guy a loser and her reaction doesnt speak to a great deal of respect for her date.

As I said, it's the contemptuous "I dont date NERDS" attitude that I find utterly distasteful especially when, by her own account, he acted like a perfectly reasonable guy who had done nothing wrong and certainly nothing deserving of her ire.

If she had written her cautionary tale from the standpoint of "We met and I found out he was a lot nerdier than I usually look for in a partner, so I didn't continue things" the article would have been bypassed with no controversy.

I, myself, don't date people with underage children. If someone didn't bother to mention that they had them, I might be equally inclined to a similar story, if I had a blog/platform. Is that cruel? She did point out her failure to take care of her own boundaries.
There's a massive difference between having underage children and being nerdy.

I disagree. I think the responses were totally out of proportion to the perceived insult. Even if it had been stupid and cruel, the responses were overblown. Why the hell should anyone who is not Jon fucking Finkel care what one woman thought?
I agree with you on that as far as the sexist comments go. Those were completely and totally over the line. As to the rest, no sympathy whatsoever. You trash an underserved someone like that and to a point I have no sympathy for the consequences that bite you in the ass.

And let me tell you, the next gamer that approaches me for a date has a much higher price of admission than the last one. Because Tait describes my experience exactly. And he wasn't world champion of anything. Just a gamer.

I wish to heaven someone had warned me. Had I read Tait's article 10 years ago, my life might look damn different today.
That's another HUGE issue I have with that particular point; its GAMING. We wouldn't be having this part of the conversation if it was golf or baking or collecting thimbles or reading books or making art. For some reason, I see more people complain about gaming being a timesink for the people they love than anything else and 99 times out of 100 it comes from someone who isn't a gamer.

If you're spending your time on stuff that the rest of society feels is acceptable, you've got a hobby. If you're spending your time playing games, you're an addict/immature/socially malformed/disturbed.

That's a HUGE 'depending upon.' I highly doubt that gamers are 40-50% female.
I'm only quoting the statistics.

I do think there are more women playing games than 5, 10 years ago. But being a female who plays one or more games does not a gamer make.
For the purposes of discussion, I dont think its helpful to start throwing around jargon and alternative definitions. A gamer is someone who plays games on a regular basis and this is the most commonly accepted definition.

Not a 'boy's world' but MANY of the people you run into are male.
In certain settings and games, yes.

My experience of the gamer community is the 30+ year olds, and my experience is that they are far more obnoxious (in the way Tait's article describes) than I would expect from the population as a whole in that age range.
Its true that games do often provide a refuge for anti-social individuals regardless of age so that you're more likely to run into them in a gaming environment but I dont see anything about a game that intrinsically attracts assholes.

The fact that they are jerks to everyone does not change the fact that they are sexist douchebags. I don't see how that misses the broader problem; nor how it mitigates it or points us in a better direction for fixing it.
There is a difference between being a jerk and a sexist douchebag. Being a jerk is often a fixable condition, something one can be trained or grow out of with time and influence. Being a sexist douchebag is a more systemic problem that comes from crappy values regarding women in general that are often much more deeply rooted and harder to change.

Jerks are often just jerks regardless of their method of choice. They'll just as soon call a new player a "fag" when that new player kills then as they will screech and hoot at a female player. They're not sexist and they're not homophobic, they dont hate and fear gay people and women. They're looking for something to use to make themselves a nuisance. On a game, that's often insults and the low-hanging fruit of insults are usually to question one's sexual orientation (if the target is male) and make sexually harassing comments (if the target is female).

I do have something of a solution, or rather a resolution, more on that later.

Several very wise people I knew were fond of saying 'good intentions and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee out of a machine.' The fact that it is not your intention to do so, does not mean that you didn't do so.
Then that, quite frankly, is not my problem.
I am as direct as a T-Rex with 'roid rage and about as subtle. It isn't intended to cause upset, I just prefer to talk plain. There are plenty of other people here who do the nice, polite thing much better than I can. I'm what you'd call a "problem dinner guest."
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