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Old 12-31-2009, 06:14 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
An assertion that it is bashing with marginalization to make a reasonable request such as meeting in the middle. Those were your words. Quote: "I agree with what you are saying here, but I don't think the way to meet in the middle is to bash people over the head with how I am marginalized." I did not advocate bashing in my post. Perhaps you could elaborate on this.
No thanks, I don't have anything to elaborate on... I don't feel the need to continue talking about it. I was simply talking about my experience with some activists in my past and that I know today. Not everyone, or anyone in particular.. if it read a different way I'm sorry, that's all I meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
I did not see anyone refer to angry activists in this thread. I stated that I was progressive and radical. Ceoli agreed. Perhaps you can explain why you brought angry activists up and their relevance as I do not follow.
I don't remember anyone bringing them up either. I am not suggesting I think you or anyone else here is... again, just my own thoughts on what we were talking about and my experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Not a judgment but an observation of broad judgmental statements you made about activists.
I don't remember stating anything that was judgmentally broad. If I did, I didn't mean to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
You stated you grew tired and stopped being an activist. That is the very feeling the marginalized who make the trek feel. Tired of walking, tired of reaching and not being met in the middle. Even when they make the trek the entire way, upon arrival, being expected to change to conform to the mainstream rather than be accepted as they are. Not even being met once they reach the ones on the cushy pillows.
yup, that's about right it seems to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
As you stopped because you were tired others want to stop and it makes perfect sense to say "no you make the trek to me now. Get off the pillows and use your legs"
Ya, that's about right too for me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Indignation and disbelief is usually the response as if it wasn't to be expected.
I don't know what you mean by this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
One of the accusing and prejudiced statements lobbed at those who are fighting for equal rights on the social level and the governmental level is that they are acting as victims. This again comes from those who are used to privilege and guilty of the of the roll they play.
agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Expressing anger is not an attack and such an assertion is often used to invalidate the emotion and ignore the underlying cause. Using the anger someone else feels in response to oppression, the oppression which enables one to be privileged, as a justification to shut down and not address the issue of oppression is counterproductive and a cop out.
Yes, you are right, it is a cop out.

I have found that often my anger on an issue/topic is not seen as mature, but just that I am a child acting out because I have discovered that the world sucks at dealing with the shit it creates. I find that people shut down because of this and don't take me seriously.

The whole thing is uncomfortable for everyone it seems. Perhaps if each side, marginalized and privileged alike, treated each other as children are treated by understanding parents, rather than ones that demand obedience, then the divide would be bridged more easily and respectfully... (seeing as we are talking about treating others softly and gently as a child).

We are all privileged in one way or another. We have the privilege of being able to articulate ourselves on this topic it seems (at least I am trying to anyway ).... there are others that don't have that ability and consider us privileged.... when I think of dealing with others like they are my child I become tolerant, gentle and soft, yet firm about what I value. What I think is important I can then explain carefully, calmly and as much to the point as I possibly can.

I have a child and talk to him this way. Do I think that people are children, whether they are privileged in some way or not, no.... I am using this as an example, it is simply the way that works for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Constant allowances are given. Hence being privileged.
Allowances are given, tis true. I don't see how this indicates privilege. What's wrong with privilege anyway as long as one uses it to better the world, rather than keep others down so they don't become privileged also... Why the fight to call people on their privilege as if they are suppose to feel guilty. Why fight against privilege anyway? Do people without privilege want to be privileged...? Just a thought I had right now.... I dunno... personally I would prefer to be different than mainstream... they can keep it and their privilege. Poor bastards. I'm far happier living my truth than trying to be mainstream (I'm speaking in terms of polyamory here btw )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Equality should be attained with differences being respected not downplayed and removed.
I agree, this takes me back to what I was originally trying to say and that is, for me, equality should be attained by just being myself and calling people on their shit as it comes up. Also by being a living example of what I value and believe in (I think I do that.).... not necessarily by bashing people over the head with my idea of what is the "right" way to do things and how things should be ... (not that I am saying anyone here is ....for the love all things holy GAUD! heh )
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