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Old 12-31-2009, 04:33 AM
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Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
nope, not an unreasonable request at all. There is definitely no harm in asking from the outset to see where one gets for sure. I'm talking bashing in terms of some of the events I have been too where I have seen angry activists yelling, screaming, spitting on the public or simply even trying to out wit, out smart, out word others and then come off as cocky and like they won some kind of competition. Just watching politicians gives me this same sense. No one is talking just trying to get their point across by making the other look the fool. Activists seem to do that sometimes.

Sorry, what was my assertion? I kind of get what you are saying here, but am unsure. Could you please explain a bit more?

An assertion that it is bashing with marginalization to make a reasonable request such as meeting in the middle. Those were your words. Quote: "I agree with what you are saying here, but I don't think the way to meet in the middle is to bash people over the head with how I am marginalized." I did not advocate bashing in my post. Perhaps you could elaborate on this.

I am sure there are some activists who are as vehement as you say just as there are privileged persons who righteously and jealously protect the sociopolitical structures that lift them up and crush the rest.

I did not see anyone refer to angry activists in this thread. I stated that I was progressive and radical. Ceoli agreed. Perhaps you can explain why you brought angry activists up and their relevance as I do not follow.

Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I was referring to my frustration and anger about some peoples ignorance in mainstream groups. I get frustrated for sure, but try and take a breath and then go at it from a place of empathy and with a warm heart in the hopes that they are just ignorant and not stupid or unwilling to see another view.

Yes, me too, meeting in the middle is the best way. Unfortunately this doesn't always happen.

Again, for me, sometimes it is acceptable and sometimes not. I'm not one to let people sit on their silk pillow. I will continue to engage until I either give up or movement happens.

I'm not sure how to respond to this as it appears you are judging me. To me I sound like an old lady (i have no idea how old you are, just stating that I feel old )who used to be a hardcore activist on many levels and got tired... I'm glad that others are taking over where I left off with their passion and unwillingness to bend for anyone. All I'm saying is I get something different now, with experience and some wisdom that there are other ways and we all have our way.

Yes, please give me the benefit of the doubt... I certainly do that for others on here and in life quite a bit... I would appreciate the same respect. What is a forum if it isn't a place to discuss and share our opinions/judgments/thoughts/experiences....
Ah. I see in regards to your anger and frustration.

No, meeting in the middle happens far less than it should with the marginalized usually crossing the divide. This is problematic.

Not a judgment but an observation of broad judgmental statements you made about activists. Though I am unsure why you brought up activists, you definitely paint them most intriguingly. The mainstream sees activists as so radical they are unapproachable? I did not know that activists were unwilling to bend for anyone either. It's an interesting window into your perspective.

You stated you grew tired and stopped being an activist. That is the very feeling the marginalized who make the trek feel. Tired of walking, tired of reaching and not being met in the middle. Even when they make the trek the entire way, upon arrival, being expected to change to conform to the mainstream rather than be accepted as they are. Not even being met once they reach the ones on the cushy pillows.

As you stopped because you were tired others want to stop and it makes perfect sense to say "no you make the trek to me now. Get off the pillows and use your legs" Indignation and disbelief is usually the response as if it wasn't to be expected.

One of the accusing and prejudiced statements lobbed at those who are fighting for equal rights on the social level and the governmental level is that they are acting as victims. This again comes from those who are used to privilege and guilty of the roll they play.

Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I'm not sure if you are directing this towards me or not, so forgive me if I got it wrong but, yes, you are right, anger is a legitimate emotion and I assure you I feel no guilt for anything I have done in my life or what I have said. I have seen people attack others with their opinion in anger... I think that is abusive, rather than helpful, compassionate or respectful...people don't say they feel attacked or feel someone is angry with them as a way of avoiding, it's because they are not feeling safe. Good communication starts with safety for me. If someone says I am attacking them then I do what I can to change that and make them feel more comfortable... otherwise they naturally shut down and are not willing to address anything with me... counter productive no?

Expressing anger is not an attack and such an assertion is often used to invalidate the emotion and ignore the underlying cause. Using the anger someone else feels in response to oppression, the oppression which enables one to be privileged, as a justification to shut down and not address the issue of oppression is counterproductive and a cop out.

A friend who is following this thread stated something I agree to and I will post it with her permission:

"People with such entitlement don't get how much they implicitly attack others with their privilege, yet need others to be gentle with them when their privilege gets called out."

It is a justification for intolerant behavior and an unwillingness to deal with the uncomfortable feelings that comes with realizing one's privilege and how that privilege continually attacks others. Along with this comes constant requests to be given allowances and treated softly as a one would a child.

Constant allowances are given. Hence being privileged. There appears to be a self-imposed blindness from the nature of the world when it comes to these issues.

Going back to the matter of polyamory being accepted. Adopting the normative values of mainstream society proves divisive within alternative communities. It is a process of erasing the characteristics which made the community different from the mainstream and repeating intolerance towards those who do not adopt mainstream values. Equality should be attained with differences being respected not downplayed and removed.

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Last edited by Ravenesque; 12-31-2009 at 05:21 AM. Reason: Misspelling
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