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Old 12-31-2009, 03:19 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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(i'm not sure how I managed to make some of this post blue etc, but I don't have time to change it.... so you'll have to bear with me, thanks)
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post

Interesting. I simply disagree with making the entire trek.

yes, well sometimes I do to. It depends on the response I get and my gut feeling of a person.

Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Meeting in the middle is not an unreasonable request and I fail to understand how asking that the privileged step outside their privilege is bashing them.
nope, not an unreasonable request at all. There is definitely no harm in asking from the outset to see where one gets for sure. I'm talking bashing in terms of some of the events I have been too where I have seen angry activists yelling, screaming, spitting on the public or simply even trying to out wit, out smart, out word others and then come off as cocky and like they won some kind of competition. Just watching politicians gives me this same sense. No one is talking just trying to get their point across by making the other look the fool. Activists seem to do that sometimes.

Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
I often see such an assertion by those used to privilege who are frightened or threatened by the concept of others having the rights and privileges they have. They are even more threatened that they may have to contribute in some way or give up their privilege in order for equality to occur. I am also unsure what you are responding to in your statement about frustration and anger over other people's agendas.
Sorry, what was my assertion? I kind of get what you are saying here, but am unsure. Could you please explain a bit more?

I was referring to my frustration and anger about some peoples ignorance in mainstream groups. I get frustrated for sure, but try and take a breath and then go at it from a place of empathy and with a warm heart in the hopes that they are just ignorant and not stupid or unwilling to see another view.

Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
The best dialogues I have engaged in and witnessed, which in turn resulted in the greatest strides towards equality being made, have been with individuals of privileged backgrounds and individuals of marginalized backgrounds meeting in the middle. Both being open and willing to cross borders engaging, teaching and learning from each other.

Yes, me too, meeting in the middle is the best way. Unfortunately this doesn't always happen.

Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Again, making the entire trek is unacceptable. How is it justifiable to say "you constantly make the trek to bridge the gap to my side. Keep on doing it because I'm not getting off of my silk pillow."
Again, for me, sometimes it is acceptable and sometimes not. I'm not one to let people sit on their silk pillow. I will continue to engage until I either give up or movement happens.

Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
I find that mentality abhorrent and rife with privilege entitlement. There needs to be effort on the parts of all involved.
I'm not sure how to respond to this as it appears you are judging me. To me I sound like an old lady (i have no idea how old you are, just stating that I feel old )who used to be a hardcore activist on many levels and got tired... I'm glad that others are taking over where I left off with their passion and unwillingness to bend for anyone. All I'm saying is I get something different now, with experience and some wisdom that there are other ways and we all have our way.

Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
That is quite interesting again. There are quite a few thinly veiled judgments within your post but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Anger is a legitimate emotion. I have seen it often highlighted as an excuse of the privileged to shut down and not engage in dialogue or bringing change usually because of a sense of guilt. Often the complaint is one of being attacked. Just to avoid dealing with the underlying issue or with the reality that they have been placed at a point of privilege and will have to act as well as anyone else to lift the oppression that has been caused by that.
Yes, please give me the benefit of the doubt... I certainly do that for others on here and in life quite a bit... I would appreciate the same respect. What is a forum if it isn't a place to discuss and share our opinions/judgments/thoughts/experiences....

I'm not sure if you are directing this towards me or not, so forgive me if I got it wrong but, yes, you are right, anger is a legitimate emotion and I assure you I feel no guilt for anything I have done in my life or what I have said. I have seen people attack others with their opinion in anger... I think that is abusive, rather than helpful, compassionate or respectful...people don't say they feel attacked or feel someone is angry with them as a way of avoiding, it's because they are not feeling safe. Good communication starts with safety for me. If someone says I am attacking them then I do what I can to change that and make them feel more comfortable... otherwise they naturally shut down and are not willing to address anything with me... counter productive no?
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