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Old 12-29-2012, 03:42 PM
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River River is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovemberRain View Post
So, are you interested in others' frames as well? Or having the discussion within your frame?
Oh, yes, I'm definitely interested in other people's frames! And I'm interested in sharing my own frame/s, as well as introspecting about my own frame/s -- making it/these explicit. I used the phrase "tendency to frame" as I did because I recognize that I've got more than just one active frame in my mind/psyche. The one I call my "tendency" is the dominant one, and probably the one I'm most familiar with. I would also note that I prefer that frame to any others I'm aware of. So I suppose I'm fortunate, as it could have been that my cognitive framing and my emotional (etc.) experience were incongruent. For example, I could frame things as I do conceptually while, say, desiring a lot of "intimacy"-free sex with strangers whom I treat as objects. That would be highly incongruent.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NovemberRain View Post
I suffer quite a bit from thinking and wanting to think without being very specific or precise. I tend to think with my feelings (which I'm certain makes no sense at all, but I do that).
I think it is good that you are aware of this about yourself. It may be that you are somewhere near the low end of the "verbal spectrum," as I informally call it. A "high verbal" person (like myself) is a person who has developed verbal communication skills to a fairly high level. That is, they know a fair bit about how to translate or interpret experience in language. (Language, as I see it, is grounded in experience.)

Being low verbal is not anything to be ashamed of. Nor is it a permanent and unchangable condition. It just happens to be that some people are temperamentally inclined to develop their verbal skills/intelligence to a high level while others are more inclined to develop other skill sets which are not so much verbal.

Language is rarely "specific or precise," even when weilded by masters. But its masters understand this, and so don't expect or demand the sorts of precision which are inappropriate to the available tools. That said, it can be extremely helpful to try using language to convey one's thinking -- both to one's self and with others. "Convey", here is an interesting word, as it suggests communication and imparting, but also laying down a path in which discovery and understanding may emerge. Here I have a mental image of a "conveyance" (bicycle, car...) and a road or trail. In some respects the conveyance and the road or trail are intertwined, such that each emerge together. Neither quite exists without the other. Verbal thinking is what allows us to understand experience in the verbal form. Dancing is one way to understand non-verbal thinking, somatic thinking.... Visual arts and music have their own modes of non-verbal thinking, etc....


Quote:
Originally Posted by NovemberRain View Post
I like that, and it works for me as a frame. I'm a little confused, you say it does not refer to lack of factual knowledge, and then you say knowledge is factual knowledge.
I've dabbled in the study of philosophy, and while dabbling in it I came to understand that the very notion of the possibility of non-cognitive knowledge is controversial among professional philosophers / academics. But I'm actually quite comfortable embracing a concept of knowledge which allows for knowledge to be either cognitive or non-cognitive. (We'll avoid for now the controversy over what the word "congitive" means!) Factual knowledge is presented as facts / words ... sentences..... Anyway, the phrase not-knowing which I used just isn't centered on a lack of factual knowledge, per se. One can both have factual knowledge about a person or a thing and also embody an attitude and awareness of "not-knowing" (which is a sort of modern zen phrase). Not-knowing, in this context, is basically a state of available readiness and openness of mind and body which tends not to be goal oriented. It's a quality of "presence" which embodies openness and wonder. Factual knowledge may be present, but it goes rather to the background as a state of rapt attention and presence emerges in the foreground.
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