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Old 12-07-2012, 07:51 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 2,153

Originally Posted by Numina View Post
Airyn:...You may feel foolish in a few months after she' left and everything is just like it was before.
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
... If they aren't mature enough to be in a seriously complicated relationship, either dont be in one or accept that they are flawed. I don't imagine if Wolf gets involved with an older person you would like to hear they are being told they need to do this and do that and grow up in order to be good enough to be in the relationship.

Airyn is the hinge and he's the one who should be willing to do the buttload of the work, and so far I haven't seen much but cowardly behavior from him and letting you do most of it. I know its easier to tell other people to change because that's easier than working on yourself so it feels like a possible easy fix. If you expect Chipmunk to change overnight, maybe you should do it first to set an example.
Airyn has a screw loose if he thinks that your relationship will go back to what it was before you and he got involved with Chipmunk. Even if she moves out tomorrow, your relationship has irrevocably changed. You are not the same person, neither is he. You cannot unknow what has happened. It shows that Airyn is engaging in magical thinking. Such magical thinking - 'if I do this one thing or someone else does this one thing, then all will be well' - is dangerous as it prevents one from understanding the reality of a situation. (I'm not saying he is the only one - it seems like you and Chipmunk has also engaged in magical thinking. It's a very human thing to do. But poison to relationships.)

To echo Anneintherain, please think about what this relationship with Chipmunk is teaching Wolf. PLEASE understand I am not saying you or Airyn are bad parents, not at all. You clearly love that little girl so much. (She seems delightful!) She is picking up something about the situation. Little pitchers are perceptive - they will not understand it as an adult would but they do hear and see things and think about them and fit them into their understanding of the world - often in ways that startle adults. You and Airyn might be setting an example for her that the most immature, unpleasant person wins. And that she should defer to said immature people. That being young and hot means tantrums are ok to throw. That special treatment from others for the young and hot and female is expected (this message is too prevalent already in general society). Or there may be other lessons she is learnign from the situation. Yes, she can learn about generosity and willingness to help from your example too. But think about what she is learning. What are you and Airyn and Chipmunk modeling for her?

Do you and Airyn realize you cannot 'fix' Chipmunk? She needs more help than you or Airyn can provide. Her background has not equipped her in any way with relevant, functional, and sane relationship skills. This is tragic and not her fault in any way. Yes, she can learn but you cannot be the ones to teach her. It is beyond your capability - not because you are useless or uncaring or unwilling - but because she is damaged enough to need professional help.

Finally, Chipmunk does not want to move. She wants Airyn and you to take care of her. So she will attempt to work on her issues. But unless she is seeing a professional therapist and possibly a psychiatrist as well AND making actual trackable progress, this will be a facade, a way to stay in the home. And Airyn is correct in that his relationship with Chipmunk will end if she moves out. However, it will end because his care of her is the reason for the relationship. If he does not take care of her on her terms, meaning constant contact and attention and care, then yes, she will dump him and find someone else to take care of her. And she will proceed to make that person's life hell until they kick her out or she understands this destructive pattern and begins to change. (It's also instructive that your husband has such a need to take care of someone to this degree. Why is that? It's to the point of being destructive.)

You and Airyn could try stopping taking care of her. Don't drive her places. Don't feed her meals. Don't bring her lunch. Don't pay her bills. Have her manage her own calendar. Expect her to contribute to the household. Treat her as a roommate and not a child. (You don't seem to accept such behavior from Wolf. Why accept it from Chipmunk? Because she is more obnoxious and difficult to deal with than your sweet daughter?) Combining this with the demand to grow up and learn how to be a responsible adult in an adult relationship might push her to become a real adult. But it's a long shot. She will probably move out before doing that hard work.

Last edited by opalescent; 12-07-2012 at 07:53 PM. Reason: clarity
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