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Old 11-02-2012, 01:53 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default To Opalescent

I have really taken some time to think about what you have to say. I can't say I'm surprised, or that I feel completely different, but neither do I completely agree. Remember that this blog has mostly come from a place of sadness, angst, with a lot of feeling of being trapped thrown in. Also there have been many,many good times, days, events. What I am focusing on here, what I am trying to purge from myself are the bad times as I see them. I acknowledge that my view of each situation is not the best, and that it can/has/does change as time goes on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
You and Airyn have been played from my perspective. There are two ways people get away from bad situations. One, they figure out what they need to do to survive and how to get what they need to live on their own. Then they work hard to make that happen. And they leave. They know they can manage their own life. Or, two, they figure out who can help them leave, glom onto them, and trade whatever they've got to get out. These folks don't know how to be independent, they only know how to manipulate, charm and trade to get what they want.
You may be right, but not necessarily. Chipmunk has grown up in a very conservative Christian home, and moved in with her biological mother about 3 years ago. This was the first time that she had to deal with some one who is verbally, mental, and emotional abusive (and yes manipulative). Everyone manipulates situations, and people to meet their needs. In this case I do not believe that Chipmunk is manipulating things in a malicious fashion. As I have told Airyn multiple times I don't believe Chipmunk even realize what she is doing. I know for a fact that she has said things to me that were personally hurtful, and that she did not do so on purpose, or realize how I would react to what was said.

And I can be just as hurtful/manipulative at times as well. For instance. Chipmunk and I had a conversation (I've talked about it in this blog before) about porn, watching it together. Her ultimate response was that she does not watch porn with other people. She said this directly to me, no one else in the room. She was very serious, and somewhat uncomfortable. But this statement left no room for, "I'll consider it", or "I'd being willing to try". So from my perspective she was telling me, "No I will not watch any porn with you ever". Recently Airyn asked to use my computer, and I made a joke. I said ok, but let me close all my porn first. I wasn't watching porn or anything of the kind, both Airyn, and Chipmunk knew this. Chipmunk suggested that I watch on the bedroom computer. She was in bed with her computer messing around on the internet (facebook). My response as I left the room, "You don't want to watch porn with me." I left the room as I said this because I KNEW it would be hurtful for her to hear, and I knew she would say something about it to Airyn. Which she did. She told Airyn that she never actually said she didn't want to watch porn with me. He and I talked about that a little while later, and I explained that sure she "literally" did not say that, but what she did say left no room for possibility. And since she never came back to me to say anything to make it sound like she would consider it, for me, that says there was no chance.

What was the point of this? Well to show that she is not the only one who has manipulated a situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
Of course she initially presented as being into you. Not because you are not attractive but because you and your husband were a package deal at the time. To get out she had to be into both of you. She's not a lesbian, she's not even bisexual or biamorous. Did she become not into you once she moved in? I bet she did. She realized that she could stay if she wasn't dating you because she is still seeing your husband. Who has lost his mind and all perspective over a 21 year old body.
Well yes and no. She had never had any experience being with women before. She has attraction to women, crushes even and not just to me, but to another girlfriend of hers. She found she wasn't into Girl on Girl sex about a month after she moved in. As someone who didn't recognize her own bisexuality right away I can understand this. I also realize that chipmunk may find that she is interested in sex with women later in life. Right now she is very inexperienced in general, not just with women. Initially Chipmunk knew that we came as a packaged deal, she would have to date both of us. It wasn't until after that first month that she and I talked about finding some intimate balance between us where sex would always involve Airyn, and it not be just girl/girl. It was also understood (originally) that if things didn't work between she and I there would be no Airyn and Chipmunk; like I said package deal. I'm pretty sure I shared all this, but maybe not, and since I'm purging myself I don't have much interest in rereading what I have posted here. I also know I talked about not being bothered by the two of them dating, only that having Chipmunk living with me. Living sleeping in our shared bed, that's what I am struggling with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
She is employing the same tactics as her abusive, manipulative mother. It takes work and self-awareness to not repeat what our parents taught us. She does not give the impression that she is willing to work or particularly self-aware. She is a prime emotional manipulator. She can read you and Airyn like a book. (Manipulation does not require self-awareness beyond a baseline 'I do this so they do that.') That whole "Love ya!" business is another way to get a hook into you. As she doesn't want you sexually, then maybe she can give you a taste of emotional connection and keep you hooked that way. It is no coincidence this happened after your husband's mom gave him an earful about Chipmunk. He may not listen to you but I bet his mom got his attention, at least somewhat. She needs to keep you off-balanced enough so you don't connect the dots and fully realize how destructive she is to you, Airyn, and your marriage. And to herself.

She is terribly needy. WAY WAY more than even your typical self-involved early twenties woman. She is a black hole of need that cannot be filled by your or Airyn or anyone else. Don't excuse this by blaming youth. Yes, of course, she is immature. I was too at that age. You were too. But you cannot help her. Airyn cannot help her. There is something terribly awry with this woman beyond the normal growing pains of young adulthood.
Since the manipulative mother didn't come into Chipmunks life till Chipmunk was 18 this is off base a little. Again I do see many of her actions as manipulative, but I don't see them as intentionally destructive, or vindictive. Part of Chipmunks problem is that she can't let go. The fellow J that she was pursuing she had only kissed once, and she held on to this relationship for a long time even with him repeatedly turning her down. So her sudden interest in more intimacy with me is more her want to hold on to me even though I've let her go. She and I shared a MUCH more intimate relationship then just one kiss. Same with the, "love ya" comment. She wants the relationship to continue, but right now I want no relationship. In a few weeks, or a month who knows I may be up for a platonic girly flirty relationship with her again, but for now I have all these "we aren't dating" thoughts/feeling/ect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
I know you made a promise to her. But you are not actually responsible for her. You may feel responsible but that is not true. It is not real. Airyn is not responsible for her wellbeing either. She is an adult.

You also made a promise to Airyn and a promise to the marriage both of you share. You have invited a toxic cowgirl into your midst. If she does not leave your house, your marriage will implode. Get her out of your house. Give her money for an apartment first and last payment if you have to. (Don't pay her rent!) If Chipmunk and Airyn want to continue their relationship after her moving out, more power to them. (This won't happen-once she doesn't get what she wants from you two, he will be the next to be dumped. Don't believe me? Try it.) Help her move. Wish her well. But get her out.

I'm sorry to be so harsh about someone you like and want to be happy. It's not something I want to write. But it's what I see from the outside. I don't think she is evil incarnate. But she is toxic and will take down your marriage with her if you are not careful.

Good luck.
When it comes down to it my marriage to Airyn will always be there. Sure things are hard, but they are actually getting better. It's slow and cumbersome, but I can see light at the end of the tunnel. It's just really really far away still. I told Airyn just today; after having our long mostly one side conversation last night, that I can still see a bigger place with Chipmunk in her own room working. Airyn and I have had a lot of talks about where we are going and how to make things work till we can move. No matter how anyone looks at it this is hard. We had no idea what we were really getting into. I say we and include all three of us. We are poly newbies, and are sadly learning things the hard way. I still see poly working for Airyn and I. I just don't see a relationship beyond friends working between Chipmunk and I.

Thank you very much for your perspective. It made me think, and clarify what I see, and how to express that. I hope my response to you explains my situation a little better.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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