By "polyship," I mean polyamorous relationship. You sound like you guys go with a primary-secondary type of open relationship model.
If B does not communicate his wants, needs, and limits, the rest cannot be expected to be mind readers. You can ask him how to support him in working out his baggage for himself. But you cannot do the work for him. He sounds like he only wants swinging, and he's not keen on polyamory for himself. However he has to deal with the fact that J does want polyamory.
Online poly resources?
I do not swing, I cannot give you pointers to those. Perhaps another reader will have that. Yes, by "on the swingset" I mean who is practicing the open relationship model
of swinging. B seems to want this model, but feel threatened because J is actually on a different model. They have to sort themselves out in their marriage first. Because B is in conflict with J and by extension -- the rest of you who are wanting polyships. MORE than just casual sex.
Your "metamour" is your lover's lover. In you situation, some of your metamours are ALSO your lover. So you polymath
in this polyship configuration doubles up on some tiers.
The mini relationships inside the larger polyship need TLC too. Otherwise unhappy in one tier will be felt throughout the rest of the tiers. It's like someone flinging themselves on the waterbed all crazy and all the rest are sent bobbling around. It will
be felt. And then overall harmony is the greater polyship is disturbed.
Be nice if you guys SLOWED DOWN and tended to what you already have before adding more people to the mix either as swing playmates or romances. Broken trust places will only magnify when you add more people.
It it NOT additive to add more people. It is geometric.
Let me use a smaller configuration. A 4 person quad only -- not what you have. You have a quad plus some extra spice lovers on the side for some of you.
There is SINGLE TIERS (4 tiers)
DOUBLES (12 tiers)
- A to A (a's relationship to a as part of a quad. Which is different than A as a footloose single answering to nobody.)
- B to B
- C to C
- D to D
- A --> B (Does A go to B with info clearly? Does A relate to B well in that direction flow?)
- A to C
- A to D
TRIPLES (24 tiers)
- B to A (Does B go to A with info clearly?)
- B to C
- B to D
- A <--> (B + C) (To save space I make the info flow arrow go both ways. Each thing means 2 direction flows so 12 x 2. The parenthesis people maybe married, lovers, swingers, or friends only)
- A <--> (B + D)
- A <--> (C + D)
- B <--> (A + C)
- B <--> (A + D)
- B <--> (C+ D)
- C <--> (A + B)
- C <--> (A + D)
- C <--> (B + D)
The QUADS (4 tiers)
- D <--> (C + B)
- D <--> (C + A)
- D <--> (A + B)
GHOST LAYER (however many it is)
- (A + B) to (C + D) (all these marrieds)
- (A + C) to (B + D)
- (A + D) to (B + C)
- (A + B + C + D) (All working as a team)
How we want to be when this break up. (Not IF, when. All relationships come to an end. Even til death do us part is an ending.)
Back to original
(A+B) - (C + D) marriages?
A - B - C - D ?
Something else? Plan for how to break up so you get the break up you want -- a peaceful one where all can be good exes. We teach others how we want to be treated.
Inside a 4 person quad that is CLOSED to just those 4 people you have
4 + 12 + 24 + 4 + ghost layers = 44 mini relationships to tend + however many on the ghost layer. I am too tired to write THAT all out. It's basically a break up on each tier -- plus two extra if the break up is NOT into the original married couples but further on down to EVERYONE single.
That's a lot of relationship management to cover in a closed quad. But you do not have this. You have extra people. It's not just adding 1 more mini relationship. It will be felt because now one person have a new lover, but 3 other people have a new metamour perhaps.
The lover of my lover.
And they have to deal with that new person. Instant more tiers of relationship. And it isn't just ONE other lover, but 4.
P and O and L and M.
The formula? Serolynne uses 2^n - n - 1 but it does not figure in ghost layers of breaking-up-ness. It also does not account for info flow direction. I find these important. The serolynne formula assumes info flows well both directions and doesn't bring on the break up convo.
But as a tool it is helpful to see what you have.
In a CLOSED 4 person quad?
- 2^4 - 4- 1 = 11 relationships + ghost layers.
In an OPEN
- 2^8 - 8 - 1 = 247 mini relationships + ghost layers + other sex partners in swing
Are you expecting all these people to get along in a significant way (ex: regular play partners? Romances?) Or just for calendar schedule needs? Are some people just for casual sex and others for sex and serious romancing?
This type of configurations would be scary chaos to me.
I would not know what is expected of me where and how. I cannot function without clarity -- else I will struggle. I would not feel physically safe, emotionally safe, mentally safe, or spiritually safe in conditions like these. Not enough is well defined and understood -- so how can anyone play ethically like Honorable Jedi even if they wanted to? Be an ethical swinger? Be an ethical polyship-er?
I am not you. You are you. But perhaps my perspective could give you some insight on WHY you feel as though you struggle. You simply have A LOT going on there with that many mini rships and not enough definitions of boundaries. Have you taught these people how YOU want to be treated?
In the physical bucket at least you stick to wearing condoms or seem to try to. (Get better at this quick!)
In the emotional health, mental health, and spiritual health -- what protection do you need to feel safe in those areas? Because polyamorous relationship is more than feeling safe enough in the physical health bucket so you can sex people up. What do you need to feel "safe enough" in your other health buckets?
I'm not sure how the others feel but if you are posting that you struggle -- you seem to want something more here than Muppet Show messes. What DO you want then? Articulated and well written out? And how will you talk to your polyship people about it?