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Old 12-03-2009, 03:45 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
So if he had said "I think that this book is wrong in blah blah way and that most of hte mono people I know would be happier with this one."

You still would have had issue with it?
Ok, I'll try to explain it again.

If he said, "I don't like this book and most of the mono people I know I don't like this book," then that would be fine. Instead he said that it was *because* of his mono wiring that he saw the book in a different light than poly people. He did also say that not all mono people see things his way, but still, claiming that wiring for one trait is responsible for another trait (in this specific case, a poly mind perceiving something as new agey where a mono mind might read the same words differently). So even with that disclaimer, it doesn't change the basic premise...that somehow being wired mono is responsible for outlooks in life that stretch beyond how many people someone can love at at time. It implies that mono wiring is also responsible for other life outlooks. Since there is just as much of a variation of life outlooks among mono people as there are between mono and poly people, I don't accept that view

Why do I think that's important? Because that type of opinion on wiring is responsible for creating divisions between groups of people that don't actually exist. Actually, Joreth explained it pretty eloqently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I thought you were upset becuase he made a statement that put all mono people under one umbrella with no proof that they ARE all under that umbrella?

He has since acknowledged that not ALL mono people feel that way and changed what he said-and that seems to have been acceptable by you (and ygirl) among others...
Ok, first to clarify: simply because I don't accept or agree with an assertion and choose to challenge it does not mean that the assertion upsets me. It means I see the damage such assertions are capable of making and feel the need to do what I can to avert such damage. I've been pretty clear about my reasons for calling it out.

Next, when you say that wiring is responsible for a certain outlook but then qualify it with "but I realize not everyone thinks my way" it's a self contradiction and leaves the issues of the initial premise unanswered. If not everyone who shares that wiring has the same outlook then it would follow that that wiring is indeed *not* responsible for said outlook.

Here's a couple of examples of how that falls apart:
  • I'm a red-head. My red-headed nature makes me rather short tempered. Though not all red-heads are short tempered like me.
  • I'm a woman. It's my feminine nature that makes it difficult for me to take authority, though not all women have difficulty taking authority.
  • I'm polyamorous. It's my poly nature that gives me a higher than average libido and makes me want to have sex a lot, though I realize not all poly people are like that.

All of these statements do two things. First, they claim that one trait causes another trait that has nothing whatsoever to do with the first trait. It is making that claim as an objective fact. Then, they attempt to make the claim subjective with a disclaimer that people who have that trait aren't all the same.

The two simply don't go together.

And not only do they not go together, but claiming that mono wiring is responsible for outlooks on life that aren't about how many people you love, you are then implying that being poly wired is a completely different outlook, and therefore a completely different culture or "kind" of person is poly. That's simply not the case.

As Joreth said, the state of being monogamous is hugely varied. The state of being polyamorous is hugely varied. The variations that exist AMONG each group are far larger than the variations that exist BETWEEN each group. So to attribute differences in outlook to mono or poly wiring is creating a divide that isn't there. Those divides might exist elsewhere, such as more poly people showing up in progressive communities than in conservative communities, or the fact that you won't find many openly poly people in Mexico, but the factors that create those differences have nothing to do with poly or mono wiring.

(I haven't forgotten the issue you raised about what I said about dominant culture. I'm trying to come up with a good way to explain what I mean, but probably won't get to it till tomorrow if things don't derail further)
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