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Old 12-02-2009, 08:39 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,510

While I disagreed with Ceoli's final conclusion, I do understand her motive and reasoning. Her main goal seem to be removing excuses for sterotyping and encourage self reflection. I think we all agree with those motives.
Yes, absolutely!

Unfortunately, it was seen more as a personal attack than it was meant to be. Ceoli kept saying that it was not a personal attack and Mono's comments were an example of the issue. I don't think Ceoli meant it as an attack, though I can see why some would see it that way.
Yes on this one as well!

Part of this issue is the way we reach decisions. Ceoli is following rational lines of thinking to avoid contradiction and to verify her thinking. Mono's statement bothered her while it didn't bother anyone else too much. So she discussed it in a way that is more provable than emotional. But since most people were not bothered by his comment, that line of argument sounded too confrontational.
Personally-I didn't find it too confrontational. When other posters "jumped on the bandwagon" I found THAT overly confrontational. However-my point is that if she really wanted to fully understand Mono-that's a wholly different thing then trying to stop marginalization. EITHER of which really requires full comprehension of both parties as to the other parties TRUE meaning, intent BEFORE any changes can be made which requires deeper communication and that CERTAINLY didn't happen in the "argument/conversation/talk/posting".

I find that if I am going to argue against someone's word, I try to get them to state it very clearly. Like I will say, "Are you saying that....?" A lot of the time, I find that people will not like the way i have it paraphrased and will correct it. That can avoid some arguments from the start.
That's exactly what we've been working on in communication classes and it makes a HUGE difference. As a rule of thumb we take it for granted that we all understand each other-but the truth is-that we most often do not. Mono actually took to task BOTH Ceoli AND Redpepper for not understanding at all. So CLEARLY there was NOT communication going on. EVEN THOUGH I do believe all three of THOSE people WERE trying to communicate-it wasn't happening.

I see this stuff like dealing with family. Sometimes we argue, but ultimately, we all care.
I agree here as well-at least as a general rule of thumb. Which is why I felt inclined to point out that SHOWING we care should come first. As our counselor says "connect before correct". In other words (still his) you must make a caring emotional connection to a person BEFORE you try to correct them, or they will shut down for self-preservation and all hope to communicate and facilitate change is lost.
"Love As Thou Wilt"
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