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Old 12-02-2009, 08:19 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Ok, I'm pretty sure a lot of this is directed at me, so I'm going to take some time to rant now. And I don't doubt that this rant will be the nail in the coffin for some people with regards to me, but so be it.
I don't put nails in coffins Ceoli. Ever. Not my nature. After a brutal rape-I still found it in my after the pesron changed to not only forgive, but to love and cherish that person.

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It may be hard to believe, but everything I do and post is driven out of compassion. I have a great deal of respect for every person where they're at in their journey. HOWEVER, that respect does not manifest in coddling or not speaking truth whenever I see it missing. In fact, if I were to do that, I would not be respecting the people I'm in dialogue with, I would be manipulating them. I don't do that.
The isue I see in this is that unless the person we are directing our dialogue to interprets us as caring-we are NOT communicating care and love no matter how much we may feel it. Communication is about sharing something inside of us, with someone else. IF they don't recieve that knowledge-we weren't communicating.
It's not manipulating to say "look man, I love you and I appreciate all I've learned from you it just hits a nerve in me when you say things such as (input quote here) because when you put it this way it leads one to believe that all people who are (pick your classification) can't comprehend (x,y,z). I sense that right now you are feeling defensive as the only significant Mono person whose had hte balls to stick around so many highly defensive, often on attack poly people. I'd like to discuss your statement more-when you are feeling more on even footing."
What it is, is showing that you have an opinion about the quote AND you still care about the person as an individual.

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Here's the thing: Everyone is indeed entitled to their own opinions. HOWEVER, that does NOT mean that they are entitled to put that opinion out and expect it to be free of scrutiny and challenge, ESPECIALLY when they are opinions that create or perpetuate marginalization, prejudice and stereotyping. Because there are ADDITIONAL feelings to be considered: All those people who get marginalized and stereotyped by such things. Sure they may not be here on this board (though I will say there are certainly been posts on here that marginalize me and I'm sure I'm not alone in that), but I'll be damned if I don't continue to speak when I see that marginalization getting fueled. Why? Because such people don't have the luxury or the privilege of setting that marginalization aside. They don't have a choice. Where many of us seem to have the luxury to "process" or "work through our feelings" while we continue to offer up and put out opinions that perpetuate those things without ever having to see the negative and hurtful effects of them. That seems a very selfish view to me.
I'm a bisexual, poly, married woman with a black sister, native Alaskan Ex, Puerta Rican daughter, sperm donor daughter.I know all about being marginalized up one wall and down the other. But the only way to TRULY stop hatred in any form, caused by anything is to show caring and love for EVERYONE and to be considerate of ALL people's needs. That means being able to say "wow that sentence really puts me on the defensive because of (enter damage it causes here). I know you to be a generally caring person and wonder if there is another way to put what you are trying to say? Can we talk about this further? It seems like this statement is a very damaging attack upon people of (enter description). Are you defensive? Are you angry? Are you hurt? What's going on to make you feel like you need to attack?"
Instead of just going on attack too. War makes war. Doesn't matter WHY you're at war. (oh I'm also an American which makes me fairly marginalized in the world after President Bush as well).

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I simply cannot and will not let opinions that are offensive to my fundamental values go unchallenged if they are offered up to me, whether they are offered up by my closest lover or by a complete stranger. I certainly don't take those opinions personally, but that does not change the fact that I consider it necessary and part of my humanity to challenge such things. And believe it or not, it is compassion that fuels that need. It's why I'm a teacher. It's why I run anti-oppression and anti-racism workshops (which is a job that routinely subjects me to people lashing out at me). It's why I come to boards like this.
I've spent a lifetime doing the same-I just choose to ensure that BOTH sides get the compassion-sense it, feel it and know it's directed towards them. Generally speaking those who hurt others do so out of a need to protect themselves. Even KKK members (I lost my virginity to a WONDERFUL black man with no regrets and have a black sister i adore this is NOT in support of KKK) do so out of fear which is at it's bottomline a need to self-protect. They shouldn't be allowed to continue-but they do need to be cared for if they are to ever learn. Hating them may seem reasonable-but it won't protect the innocent black people being hurt by them, because it won't stop the fear that causes their behavior.

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I also feel the need to point out a couple of double standards here: First: We have other members of this community that use pretty blunt language and are often explained and excused when that bluntness is off putting to newcomers. Yet when a new poster comes and uses a very similar blunt language, that is interpreted as inflammatory.

Second, nobody seemed to have a problem when I took to task the VERY same issue of flawed reasoning creating prejudice and stereotypes when I brought this up in the Sexual Element thread. In fact, lots of people chimed in with lots of inflammatory language towards the OP there for his opinions. And I have to give a lot of credit to GroundedSpririt for taking such flames and sticking with it and making an effort to continue the dialogue, which honestly he has done very well both on the boards in in messages.
I don't believe I said anything uncaring to GS either....

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So how does making 1400 posts exactly excuse a person from having a similar post held to the same standard? After the number of times I've come to the defense of the mono perspective on this board, I find it really funny to be accused of mono-bashing when all I was doing was holding the same standard I hold in every exchange on this forum. I appreciate that Mono was probably going through a tough time, and perhaps a break from the boards will help, but I cannot take responsibility for that.
It's not about excusing Ceoli. I never said as much. It's about understanding-when you are a minority just BEING there is a trial in and of itself. When there is ONE black person in the school-each day is a trial. One can expect anyone who is struggling hard enough to be here that devotedly-who isn't poly to be somewhat defensive. Every single day that he posted was wrought with the underlying message that there is something wrong with HIM becuase he's DIFFERENT from the rest of us. How many "mono's" have stuck around? Eventually that wears you down. The point is that when there is ONE "outsider" in a group the group owes it to themselves to fnd a way to protect that outsider and keep them safe within the group WHILE helping them learn and grow. If we don't do both.... well we lose the outsider and with them our support from the outside.

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This is more than a point, it's a fundamental value of mine. I cannot build authentic relationships and set aside my fundamental values at the same time, plain and simple.
I don't see why one can't make a point whilst also making the simultaneous point of showing love and caring for the person they are speaking to ESPECIALLY when they are talking to someone who is at odds with their fundamental values. You can't make THEM see your point if you aren't caring to THEM-so if you talk to them and don't care, effectively you are wasting your breath because you aren't actually communicating with them....
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