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Old 12-02-2009, 05:35 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 900

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
I have extended my hand and gave you words of credit because I respect your opinions. You apparently do not respect my own although I am clear that they are in fact my own.
And I have also done the same. However, when opinions that are your own extend to making claims about the identities of others and the experiences of others, they are not in fact "your own" then. You have done this often on this board. And perhaps you may feel victimized by my pointing that out when I see it, but that is nothing compared to how many of the claims you make lead to hurtful consequences, whether you perceive those consequences or not. It would be disingenuous for me not to call that out for the sake of "agreeing to disagree".

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
I am well aware I do not travel in the same poly circles as you. But I live poly on a day to day basis, dealing with issues that can help others from the perspective of a family that is out there. We have a perspective that many do not have but will want to hear because the same challenges are in their future.
And I live poly on a day to day basis with very real consequences in a very real world as well that probably bears a striking resemblance to the world you live in. Perspective based on such experience is valid. Perspective based on assumptions and prejudice are not.

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
I am trying to focus on ways to prevent lines being re-enforced in the sand between poly and mono approaches to loving. But there are differences and it is all of our challenge to overcome those differences. Some will do this on paper or in theory others will do this by example. Extending hands to embrace the validity and beauty of all loving styles is how I see acceptance being achieved. Not in pointing out weaknesses, but in recognizing strengths.
I see many of your points focusing on trying to reinforce that line in the sand between poly an mono approaches to loving. Especially when saying things like "Of course you can't understand, you're not mono wired". I really don't see how such things prevent the reinforcement of lines.

I don't know if you think everything I'm saying is in paper or in theory, but I can assure you it's not. I also live in the same world you do. I work. I have a job. I live consequences for being poly. But also, there is some very real hurt and struggle created by the very same things you claim in the posts I call into question. Sometimes that is hurt and struggle that I've experienced, sometimes it's experienced by friends of mine, but I assure you that it is not a mere academic study in logic.

By saying we should agree to disagree, you are asking me to give tacit permission to let such prejudice and marginalization continue. I can't do that. I can't "agree to disagree" with someone who makes racial slurs or misogynistic statements just because they say it's their opinion based on their experience and I need to respect their opinion and experience in that. The ironic thing is that I face that often in the anti-oppression trainings, and often we have to go back to redefine respect in such situations. And that definition has much more to do with authenticity than sparing one's feelings. Because, unfortunately, sacrificing authenticity for the sake of someone else's feelings has far worse consequences in the long run. I realize that's a more extreme example but the same mechanism is in place in a much more subtle way with the posts I call into question, whether it is intended or not. And I have always taken the time to explain where and how that mechanism is there, but often by then I'm too busy responding to accusations of attacks.

I never call into question any posts that are about your experiences that are yours. I call into question the posts where you set your experiences as a valid reason to make blanket statements and judgments about the experiences and identities of others. Laying out such principles and then qualifying it with, "but that's just my opinion" doesn't undo the marginalizing effect of such things and creates it's own hurt.

However, the point you really seem to be missing is that it's really not about you. If it was about you or anyone else who has unintentionally marginalized or invalidated an experience of mine with a post here, I would have left this board ages ago. But I find it much more human to discuss and challenge it rather than accept it. It's about staying true to some fundamental principles, whether people think those principles are worthy of staying true to or not. What you do with that is yours just the same as the fact that what I do with it is mine.

Last edited by Ceoli; 12-02-2009 at 05:39 PM.
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