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Old 06-27-2012, 08:51 PM
mercury mercury is offline
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 84

Originally Posted by Katrpillar View Post
I understand how hurt you can be at Derek and Jeni's choice but I guess I don't consider this veto. It reads to me like it was a mutually agreed upon decision between the two made after a week of deliberation. How is her stating her preferences (and/or boundaries) a veto (which I understand to be making a demand)? Derek wants Jeni to be comfortable with the people he dates and apparently based on the previous history between you three she felt uncomfortable with you. We are getting your side here which I understand may feel very unfair, not right, but we don't know Jeni's side. How Derek handled NRE, etc... You could be a lovely person and not be toxic or drama or whatever else you consider ok reasons for veto. Maybe Derek's behavior while in a relationship with you was toxic, damaging, or stressful to Jeni and Derek's relationship in ways you don't know. It sounds like your info regarding their relationship comes from Derek and not Jeni so the lack of complete info wouldn't surprise me.
I think it is a veto. They may have agreed on it, ultimately, but his initial reaction to my getting in touch with him was "let's see each other again."

But I agree with you that I don't necessarily have all the information. Who KNOWS how he was acting with her during my time with him. Hell, it's possible he was making her feel like shit about it. I will definitely grant you that WHO KNOWS what kind of loving yet still possibly passive-aggressive dynamic they have with each other. I know he did say this to me after our third date: "I was telling _____ (her) how surprised i was that you guys weren't friends because you're so much alike." I mean, not that that's a bad thing to day, especially if it's true, but it certainly is going to plant a seed of insecurity in her if he's telling her, "You know, ____ (me) has ALL the same things you have." It's going to make her feel that much more replaceable. I think if I were in his shoes, I might have been downplaying how great the new person is...just a little.

It's totally true that there could be things going on in their relationship that I don't know about. For all I know, they agreed to date other people but not have sex until after two months, and he may have broken that. (I do kinda doubt that, but what I'm saying's possible they had some rule that he broke). Anything's possible.

We know he did say he might end up leaving her if he continued in a relationship with you. And you originally left because you couldn't handle sharing with his GF. It sounds great that you've changed and are willing to work on the relationship with the both of them. If that is indeed the case I wonder why you chose to reach out just to Derek alone and and not reach out to both of them in the spirit of teamwork and inclusion.
I reached out to both of them. See my post above. I even asked if she wanted to have coffee to talk about it all. Even before I wrote that email, though, I was telling him to tell her that I so wanted to be friends with her and get to know her more.

Maybe she has her own reasons why she is unable to process you specifically in Derek's or her life due to past experiences with Derek. Especially if she believes that you really would prefer not to share (so much so that you left after 7 weeks). If in only 7 weeks my BF or DH was contemplating leaving me for another and my relationship turned upside down (this is unclear to me) I would be a bit gun shy at trying that same configuration again. I would also be a bit jaded or skeptical at any new huge philosophy shift that seemed to be made exclusively in order to be in a relationship with my partner.
I wrote her an email which I explained why I left the first time. It said, "I was new to it all and didn't know if I wanted it. But I've since done a lot of soul-searching, reading about polyamory, just contemplating, and I have a new outlook. I really want to be a part of both of you know." (see the above for how I ended it). As a person new to poly herself and feeling insecure as she did, surely she had to know that I felt that way too but I wanted for all of us to try it again and be loving, peaceful, and supportive of each other. When someone goes to you and says "I want to make this work for ALL of us," there's not a hell of a lot of excuse to just say "sorry, no thanks. Your good intentions and desire to be close to me just aren't good enough. I'd rather he date a different person."

As far as him contemplating leaving her, I don't even know if he said that to her. Now I'm not saying it's right for him to think that in the first place. But what I'm saying is we can't factor it into HER thinking and decision making when it's highly unlikely that he said to her, "Well, you know what, I'm getting really happy with ____ (me), I'm thinking of leaving her."

He didn't say it, at any rate, in a very cruel context. It may sound that way in blunt text on the Internet. He said it in a way that was just being truthful about where they stood, that they were opening up their relationship, both knowing that at risk is the possibility of one or the other or both of them being happy enough with someone else to stray.

It really wasn't even a proclamation directed at how happy I was making him. It was more a generalized, objective one, wherein he was saying some woman in the future at some point might be compelling enough to make him depart. And the same for her with guys.

I don't think there is anything wrong or immature in Jeni knowing what she can or cannot emotionally handle for herself and her stating as much to her BF. It is her responsibility as a loving partner to communicate what her capabilities are and what her truth is. She may not be in a place in her life where she can deconstruct and recreate a dynamic that has so much baggage for her. Perhaps trying to do so would take up too much processing and be detrimental to her mental health and ability to function in her relationship or productively in her own life. It is Derek's responsibility to take what she says into consideration and make his own choice- which he did. Saying, "you can do this why can't she," sounds a bit lacking in empathy for Jeni as her own person with her own faults and limitations. It sucks that her needs currently mean not being able to work on a shared relationship with you but that is where she is mentally at right now. It is neither right or wrong. Just like it was neither right or wrong for you to have originally left after 7 weeks for your own mental health.
I do agree with you there. I agree with you, even, that it's not necessarily fair of me to pull the "I can, so why can't she" card. I do understand that different people have different emotional capabilities at different times in their lives, and that she need not necessarily be condemned for being unready for something that I feel quite ready for. To that extent, I agree with you. I'm doing a bit of free-venting here because it's a message board. But rest assured, I know all that (above) about different emotional capabilities.

When I say she is "immature," from my perspective, she is. I know it's not a fair judgment and may be harsh on her. But it is my assessment of her. Immature isn't always a bad thing. "Immature" is relative, anyway. By my standards, she is. Immature for poly, that is. Not immature in general. But yes, immature for poly.

Some years ago I was in a place where I could not process a specific outside relationship my husband had. In my case it was due to lack of trust and many broken boundaries. It would have taken too much for me to rebuild that trust. Perhaps my situation is more understandable but regardless of cause I believe that sometimes a person cannot emotionally put in the work that it would take to heal a previously broken relationship dynamic (especially if they believed it damaged or almost cost them their relationship). It is their choice not to have to do so. Derek might have agreed to Jeni's request because he also believes that she is unable to emotionally do so now AND he chooses to prioritize their relationship for whatever reason.
Yep, I get all that. And like I said above, for all I know, some boundary was broken. I doubt they told me everything.

For what it is worth... if I were Jeni, things that might change my mind/perspective would be if you approached me independently with what I believed was a genuine interest in healing and recreating OUR metamour relationship (even if it just be platonic). To see if we are compatible as friends or just respectful people before we get emotionally entangled with our shared lover where it previously fell apart. Of course this is not necessary nor to be expected as standard but it would show me good faith and intention on your part to not want to damage my existing relationship. In time I could slowly begin to trust you and welcome you into my life and hear directly from you how your views and feelings have changed and share mine as well. Of course Jeni could be very different than me.
Did that. Did it and then some. There was even a time after the email I wrote above in which I called her to talk. No answer, no return call.
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