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Old 11-29-2009, 10:31 PM
Alexandra Alexandra is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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redpepper, thank you for taking the time to write your long post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
It sounds to me like this man did a good job rescuing you. ...snip.... That is lovely and very caring, but might suggest that it is time to take the show on the road and get out of this co-dependency.
Yes, I do love him. Not just because he was able to see in me the potential for healing, but because he is patient and loving and all kinds of other good things.

It's kind of irritating that it's been decided that my relationship is based on co-dependency. I'm not going to get into this here. Suffice to say that, while we do of course have issues (who doesn't), we are not dysfunctional. I can't prove it to you, you'll just have to accept that I know what my relationship is like better than you guys do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
This thread has turned into a concern for your primary relationship...snip... have not taken all the steps to being self actualized.
Don't you see that this is a huge and judgmental assumption on your part?

While I appreciate the concern, I have not felt supported by this concern. To the contrary, I've felt scolded and judged.

If by self actualised you mean:

"the desire for self-fulfillment, namely the tendency for the individual to become actualized in what he is potentially. This tendency might be phrased as the desire to become more and more what one is, to become everything that one is capable of becoming"

...then I am the living embodiment if the concept! And L has supported me unstintingly in this journey. Again, I can't prove it, you'll just have to take my word for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Part of that is that you seemingly have no problem with these women thinking they are better than you when it comes to your husband. No one should EVER think they are better than you. I am still concerned by this.
But nowhere have I suggested that I'm happy or okay with these women's behaviour! I agreed with YGirl way back when she first said "it's unacceptable".

I do have a problem with their behaviour, and it is an issue between L and me. Nor am I happy that L doesn't pull them up for it. I have said this several times.


I do not think they are better than I am, in their own right nor in relation to L. I think they're kooky fuck-ups, with unresolved issues, I think they are rude and need to learn some manners. I think they are needy, self absorbed and ridiculously short sighted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Your husband is right. ...snip... Therefore he may fear that he won't be attracted to you anymore.
This is one of the ongoing conversations that L and I have. It refers not only to his girlfriends, but also to our own private relationship. When I said way back earlier "It's an interesting dynamic and I have given it much thought", this is what I was referring to.

I find it really annoying that you have all apparently decided that I seem to have no insight, no curiosity, no ability to think things through, no emotional intelligence. What do you think we've been doing for 20 years, L and I, if not building, negotiating, developing, evolving, nurturing our relationship??

Perhaps - wow, here's a thought... - perhaps L has some issues around women and his own feelings of adequacy, and I am helping him to resolve those? Perhaps we work together with patience and empathy, maybe? Maybe he's stubborn and finds it hard to shift (oh, y'know, I think I did mention this trait when I was asking for guidance about how to help him to shift towards acceptance of polyamory...) and I'm by nature patient and prepared to work at his pace (oh wow, I think I did mention my patience as well, way back up there somewhere, in that same context).


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
As a self actualized individual I would NEVER let anyone think that it is okay that they treat me the way you describe. ...snip... I'm afraid that they would be pulled aside and quickly put in their place.
Once again, I don't let them think it's okay. They do NOT have any rights over me, of course they don't. Where have I implied that I think that they do?? Please do point this out to me because I really don't know where I gave that impression.

If they behave ill towards me when we are in public, I ignore them. We are in public, and I'm not interested in making them feel shitty. If they behave ill towards me in my own home, I make it clear that I will not engage with them unless and until they behave better. I pull them up, I comment as calmly as I can. I have conversations with them when appropriate. Some, over the years, have become good friends. Some have fallen away but later come to me to apologise. And some continue to behave badly. So they never become friends, and they fall out fo favour with L too, sooner or later.

The issue is more about L's inability or reluctance to put in place appropriate boundaries and maintain them. And, once again I say, for the third time, I am hoping that if we can arrive at an acknowledged position of polyamory, we will be better able to resolve this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
My husband and I have negotiated veto power for such occasions. If there is someone in our lives that the other has a problem with then we reserve the right to ask that they not be a part of our lives. ...snip...We are very practiced with this by now. It takes time. We are used to calling each other on stuff and those that are close to us.
Good for you, I'm glad to know this dynamic can work. And this is exactly why I have come to this forum to ask for guidance and input from experienced people to bring L to a point where he can accept and acknowledge that we are (and I think have for some time been) having a polyamorous relationship. The sooner we can arrive at such a point, the sooner we can openly discuss and negotiate ground rules.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I am amazed that you have this dynamic and find it fascinating. ...snip... The difference being that they have an arrangement that is acceptable to both of them, I am unsure that it is acceptable to you.
Um, okay... Weird... There is course a push-pull in our relationship, isn't that true for all relationships? Sometimes / in some areas, I'm in charge, and sometimes / in some areas he's in charge. I never thought of us in D/s terms... I'll give it some thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
It's a shame he won't go to therapy with you...snip... His unwillingness makes me wonder if he is fearful or just doesn't want you to reach your potential because he doesn't dig women that have.
If he was really not into me being well, we'd have finished a long time ago.


I agree, there is an issue about how he likes these kooky chicks and enables them to be rude to me. Yes, this is an issue. No, I don't like it.

And yes, it is an issue we both have to address. I love him enough to want to work through it with him, with us.

I don't know how I can make this any more clear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I wonder if you can take yourself out of the realm of whatever makes your husband such a celebrity and see this for what it is, two human beings trying to make their relationship work.
As I said, he's only a bit famous. It's not a day-in-day-out thing. Most of the time we are normal, standard, run of the mill people. We

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
It makes no difference what he does that makes him acknowledged, as a human right, you are entitled to respect. You deserve it as a fellow human being. If all of you were sitting in my living room right now and as I don't know who your husband is and in what way he is famous, I would expect him to treat you with dignity and respect.
And so he does! Friends and acquaintances often comment on how lovely we are to each other! One of the reasons he's so popular with these kookies is that he is such a great, patient, loving, kind, gentle, thoughtful person. He made me breakfast in bed this morning, he came to the market with me this afternoon and carried the bags. Just now he came upstairs and brought me a cup of tea, he did the washing up after supper..... The other evening when we were entertaining friends he sat on the floor by my feet and kept my wine glass topped up... When we're out he holds the door open for me, if I arrive after he does he always comes to greet me and buy me a drink, he is publicly affectionate, in private he is attentive and loving...My goodness! I have no complaints.

I'm really sorry that I've given any impression to the contrary, that was a disservice to him.

And no, this is not backpeddling. Please show me where I have given the impression that he is disrespectful to me.

The issue - once again - is that he allows his girlfriends to behave disrespectfully to me. No, it's not even that, it's not that he allows them, it's that he doesn't actively step in and actively stop them from doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I would hope that you would ask for that and demand that. It's nothing to do with how much you love each other, or what is going on for others around you, it's a right.
Absolutely! In fact it's more than a right, it should be a given.
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