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Old 11-28-2009, 02:10 AM
Alexandra Alexandra is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Wow....


Um...

A lot of assumptions here, redpepper.



First off, thank you for your kind concerns


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Anyway, I am left feeling very concerned about all you say Alexandra. You say that you and your husband have had loving relationships before yet have never had sex with anyone that has come into your life in the secondary kind of way. You have said that the women your husband choices have treated you badly and you haven't really objected unless it's in your home.

I didn't say that they treat me "badly", and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

They tend to be cocky and disrespectful, to be sure, but I am in charge in my own home. When we are out and about, I don't feel that I have any jurisdiction (after all, they are independent individuals, in public). And actually, it doesn't bother me a bit when it's in public. I am strong and amazing, I shine and their light doesn't obscure mine. Let them have their moment.

I should probably say at this point that L is a bit famous, respected and admired for the creative work that he does. He is a public figure and I don't feel that he belongs to me in any way. Part of who and what he is, is a public person. This has always been the case, and I have always "shared" him with his public. Sharing him - his attentions - with others is normal. More than that, other people (men and women) feel amazing when they spend time with him, and that's one of his beautiful traits. I don't have any desire to curtail or hamper that.

Some of the people who want, need, to experience this sense of being amazing are shy, awkward, needy etc. And when it's a woman who is these things, one that L finds attractive, who makes him feel protective and adored... well, then they start to feel Special and Chosen. And then when they feel Special, they start to think they might be More Special than the wife.

I am aware that their cocky disrespect towards me is often born out of their own feelings of inadequacy or low self esteem. And L makes them feel amazing!

I don't want to take that away from them! That's pretty cool; isn't it? That L can help them to feel good about themself?

I don't begrudge that, why should I? His ability to give people an awareness of themselves as extraordinary is a gift to be shared. And who needs it more than people who feel badly about themselves?! How selfish would I be to disallow those people from experiencing what L can give them?!

The issue - the problem - is that they carry that attitude into my home, and that L enables and allows that to happen. And yes, it is (as YGirl said) unacceptable. This is an ongoing issue between us, something that we have discussed and argued, every time it comes up. I do not cow-tow to it, I bring it up every singe time it happens. He is stubborn, and he obviously gets something out of it, something that is worth risking my happiness for.

This is an ongoing conversation between us.



Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
If this thing with your T becomes sexual then it would follow to reason that your L would want to start having sex with the women he sees....


Major RED FLAGS with that one!



Sex will exacerbate them treating you badly and him not doing anything about it.

Yes, I have considered this. I agree that if he were to have sex with these type of woman, the issues of respect / disrespect would be greatly increased. And I see that there is potential for damage.

So I have to curtail and dampen what is available to me (the love and honour I receive from T) because L's potential lovers may further disrespect me? That seems backward, and horribly reductive....


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I think you have some major things to deal with here. I am really quite concerned that if you don't deal with them you will end up being very damaged by all this.

I agree that it's a major issue, it has been for some time. I have told him that he has dishonoured me, and he acknowledges this.

However, it is not constant and ongoing. He is a good man, he loves me, he is good for me. In the main, he is respectful and honourable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I don't usually advocate therapy as I tend to think that people can work things out for themselves with a bit of guidance and good supporting friends, but this is huge to me as it is teetering on the edge of abuse. I suggest marriage counseling.
I've had plenty of counseling and therapy myself over the years. I am well, sane, balanced, happy, able to take care of myself. I've made an appointment to see a counselor next week to talk all this through.

As for marriage counseling... Hm... Well, I did mention it in passing to L, but the suggestion got lost in the wind. He is emotionally intelligent, but he's not a talker. I know him well (after 20 years!) and I have learned that he works best when he allows thoughts and ideas to sit deep down inside for a while, he mulls them over beneath the horizon, ferments them, until he arrives at a new place. He is able to take on new ideas and concept, but slowly, sometimes very slowly.

I am by nature patient, and he is by nature stubborn (similar traits, if truth be told).

He won't agree to couple counseling, I don't think, although it is something that I may bring up again.

We've come through some really tough stuff together in the past, and I really do believe that we can do so this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I would love to say that you need to stand up for yourself etc blah blah blah I am sure Ygirl and others will say just that, but this is a pattern it sounds like and could very well run deep. It sounds like both of you need some better ways of dealing with people in your lives and not letting them trample over you and run the show.
Heh... I'm not getting trampled, I promise

Yes, it is a deep pattern, it predates our relationship, for both of us. I have done deep work on myself around the question "Why do I allow this?" and - as I said up there ^^ somewhere - it's part of an ongoing discussion between L and me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
There is something rather sadistic in this whole thing. He could very well just be a bit in denial that these women are bitches to you or he could be getting off on it.
That's pretty strong, and a huge assumption.

They're not "bitches" to me - from where did you get that impression??

They are disrespectful in quite subtle ways. When I bring it up with L, he tells me I am being petty (although if I explain it in terms he can understand, he does accept and ackowledge my view...). When I describe it to my women friends, they agree that I'm being disrespected.

I'd agree that it's odd, and not right. And yes, he is in denial that they are disrespectful towards me. But I disagree that it's sadistic in any way. I really don't think he's getting off on it. I mean, I've given this some thought since I read your post cos it's a completely novel idea to me, and I'm not getting any sense that he's getting a kick out of it. I think he's just... well, ignorant.




Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
If he is truly concerned that his girlfriends treat you badly and doesn't know what to do then I suggest that you have lots of things to communicate about and I would stop everything to reconnect in this way before moving ahead with T, but really I think that should of already happened and the problem should be resolved not repeated... it sounds like it never was....

Well I agree with you that things need to be resolved before any new situation is introduced. But that's an ideal. As it has happened, T has re-entered my life at this time, not in six months from now.

L has recently realised (or taken on board...) that his current favourite, J, is indeed a problem for me. He has changed his policy with her. Perhaps because T is now on the scene and the stakes have changed; perhaps he has realised that her behaviour is problematic for me and he now wants to do something about that... I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
It seems the bigger issue here is not T, but the relationship between you and your husband. All the rest is the same usual stuff that people who are trying to get a poly life going face and that all comes out in the wash one way or another when a balanced primary relationship is running smoothly.
Yes, this makes sense to me. Of course the bigger issue is my relationship with L, I recognise that. And I accept that all the other stuff is pretty standard, and I'm learning how that works as I go along, and with the help of everyone's guidance and help on this board, for which I am grateful.

I knew before this point that any attempt at polyamory would bring up and highlight any callouses, glitches, swampy patches etc. in my primary relationship. The point is that I'm not afraid to deal with those things. And the problem is that it looks as if L is reluctant or resistant to doing so.

Last edited by Alexandra; 11-28-2009 at 02:13 AM.
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