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Old 02-25-2012, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
Why are people calling these "rules"??
Well, BP said they are their boundaries, but many of us here feel that boundaries are more negotiable, while rules are less so. These seem pretty restrictive and unmovable, so they have the whiff of rules to me. Whatever they are called, I couldn't be with someone who abides by them as they are written here.

I am approaching this theoretically, as a solo person who lives independently and has no desire to cohabit with anyone. I myself would not devise such rigid parameters for any of my relationships, and I would consider all my love relationships as equally important, so my feedback is based on my perspective and how I would feel being involved with someone who had these agreements/rules/boundaries with their partner, as they surely would impinge my freedom to love and be loved, and (at first glance, it seems to me, anyway) to be able to work toward more involved commitments to each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
If I reworded #1 as "All the rules in the world won't matter if you're not committed to respecting your partner by not crossing agreed-upon boundaries without prior discussion" would anyone have a problem with it?
I think the sticking point in #1, for me anyway, is "never put the sanctity of that primary relationship in jeopardy." It makes me wonder - if a relationship could be in such jeopardy, should polyamory even be considered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
Or #6. I don't even have to reword that one much: "Respect your partner, communicate, act with kindness and compassion". How is that a bad thing??
Who said it was a bad thing? I don't think you're directing that to me specifically, but I cited that one as a goodie I agreed with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
#2: "Don't put up with a partner who disrespects you/your relationships/your other commitments" Haven't there been TONS of threads around here about standing up for what's important to you in a relationship and not letting another person dictate the terms? Isn't this alluding to that??
No one's saying that anyone should disrespect a partner's primary, but most of #2 goes on and on about how the primary couple is of the utmost importance, is sacred, and all the love that makes poly possible flows out of those two people... honestly, I could not believe what I was reading! It seems to me like it's saying everyone involved should treat the couple as if their love is so-o-o special, that they are the only ones who count. Where is the respect that goes out in the other direction, to the other people who also make up part of the relationship dynamics by being connected to that most sacred and holy couple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
I think perhaps there's too much focus on the restrictive aspects of these statements and not enough on the meaning behind them
Well, it is the restrictions some of us take issue with, so what are we supposed to do, ignore them and not point them out, nor explain why we find them distasteful? If you can live with stuff like this, more power to ya, but I wouldn't feel like a relationship would be allowed to take its own shape and form with restrictions like this. To me, it feels like trying to fit people into a pre-formed mold, with the focus on honoring the couple because their sacred union "allows all others to exist." I just never heard that take on poly before and it rubs me the wrong way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
What if your feelings, needs, and goals are considered JUST as important, but he can't ACT on them because he's financially entangled with his primary, but not financially entangled with you? Are you going to dump him because he has to make decisions about money, for instance, like how much to spend for dates and vacations, jointly?? CONSIDERATION isn't the same as bringing things to fruition.
I know what consideration means. Did I say anything about demanding that what I want has to happen? I actually don't entirely understand what you're saying here, nor why you've put this kind of spin about money on my statement that it is "just as important [for] my guy to consider my feelings, needs, and goals, as it is to consider his primary partner's." You seem so heated about this, but I don't get why.

I wouldn't ask someone to spend money they didn't have, and I am independent, but I would hope that anyone who gets involved in poly relationships manages their finances well enough to take care of themselves and be able to invest their time and resources into all their relationships without neglecting family responsibilities. And what makes you think I wouldn't pay for a vacation with my lover, including his share, if I could swing it? Don't forget, I am imagining partnering with someone who has a primary, but I would have multiple partners too. I would have to manage my life and balance my finances to be with several partners, just as much as any of them would have to find balance in their relationships. I wouldn't be a single woman hoping for this partnered guy to feed, clothe, and house me, and take care of me financially.

When I wrote that statement, I was thinking more along the lines of emotional needs and life goals, that if someone is involved with me in a serious loving relationship, we can talk about those things, decide on stuff together, and not rigidly adhere to a decree that what the primary wants always must take top priority. There has to be give and take on all sides in a poly tangle, I believe. If I were seeing a married poly guy, his spouse is not a Queen I should bow to, but someone I hope I could hang out with, talk to, and negotiate with sensibly, and not feel like she always gets dessert while I'm only allowed crumbs whenever she deems it is okay for him to throw them my way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
So, by this logic, because I agree with a lot of these (if not word for word, then at least the reasoning behind them) TGIB...doesn't matter? I'm sure he'd be amazed to learn that.
Now you're putting words in my mouth. My opinion is from my perspective. I dislike the tone of these rules or guidelines, and when I say the reason is because I matter, I mean that I won't defer to the "sanctity" of a couple. I don't see polyamory as necessarily couplecentric, even if an established couple opens up their marriage. I value autonomy. I know there are other poly peeps, who have partners, and see it the way I do. The people that don't view all the souls they connect with emotionally and physically as equally sacred to them, are not anyone I would be involved with. It's my perspective, take it or leave it. I'm simply participating in a discussion, adding my opinions. I am not saying that anyone else should conduct their poly lives the way I do mine. In reality this is all theoretical and not important enough to get all bent out of shape over. So, chill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
STOP with the condescending, judgmental, "if people have relationship hierarchies then they're automatically not treating their non-primary partners well" assumptions.
I merely shared my initial reaction to the list BP posted. This is a message board where people do have and share their opinions and even, yes, judgments. If people didn't have the ability to judge, we'd never know to avoid a fist fight, how to dress ourselves, nor when to cross the street without getting run over. We're human, we judge - big whoop.

It is not automatically condescending to state how I feel, my subjective opinion, on a matter and state the reasons why something is not for me. If I don't like a dress that Mondo sends down the runway, am I being condescending if I critique it and say I wouldn't be caught dead in it? No, I'm just saying I don't like it, and here's why. If somebody else wears it and loves it, I don't think she's an asshole for it.

I know that hierarchies work for lots of people. I don't think any less of them for adhering to a hierarchy. Why confuse a passionate opinion for some kind of condescension? If anything, someone could easily say it is condescending for a couple to think that all the love in a poly tangle depends on the sanctity of their union being preserved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
Everyone matters. Everyone here is clear on that. I kind of thank Whoever that this couple has their understandings and expectations so clearly realized so they can be honest and upfront with potential partners and therefore respect the new person enough to give them the information they need to make the best decision for themselves about whether or not they want to get involved!
Yes, of course! And I would walk away without looking back. And I have done so when informed of similar rules by prospective lovers. I would rather not get involved than settle (by my own subjective standards), or cling to hopes that I could change someone. It makes for good discussion, too, with all these differing thoughts on the topic. I enjoyed reading a lot of what you posted earlier in the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
I took the point to be "remember that you don't get to put your primary relationship aside for the fun of a new one, just because you've been together so long and know each other so well". There may be an awful lot of people who treat secondaries shoddily in favor of a primary, but there's a lot of people who treat their primaries poorly in favor of a secondary as well. I'm probably seeing the more positive aspects because those speak to the way I "practice" poly, while others might see the negative sides more because of their own experiences.
Yes, indeed. And a secondary wanting to be treated with the same loving kindness and respect, and to have the freedom to love and relate to their partner according to their own relationship dynamic, is in no way to say that a primary should be set aside.
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Last edited by nycindie; 02-25-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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