Originally Posted by Podunk
This is where I have done my own begging. Her words ALL come out as justification, regardless of the intent. I have asked her to stop trying, to just accept my anger and my hurt. She can't give me that, the attempted explanations and their re-writes just keep coming. It's too much, there are no simple words or actions that can fix this! It just makes me more and more upset. Veganchick tries to fix it. It is circular. This is not a new dynamic for us, just magnified by the current disaster.
And yes, it will take a VERY LONG time to move on from this. Until veganchick accepts that, there is no possibility of reconciling.
Having also been in the position of trying to rebuild trust after being lied to... I totally get this. After learning about the story, all I ever wanted was for him to say "I'm sorry I lied. I panicked and then was too scared to go back and correct myself. I know how much this hurt you and I see how it would be hard to believe anything I say right now. I am going to work on myself and figure out why I did it so that I can try to come to the relationship with honesty and respect, and not react out of fear."
And then let me be a bit angry for a while, let me feel hurt for a while, and let me work through those feelings on my own.
I think the worst thing for me was when he'd expect things to bounce back to normal right away... act as if nothing was wrong. That's bullshit. I'm not going to cover up my feelings and stuff them back down to make you feel better. Plus that never works anyway because then it comes out later and usually in a not-so-productive way.
We need to be able to work through our emotions, to allow them to just be... so that we can move past them. Sometimes continuing the conversation (endlessly) keeps that from happening.
However... podunk also does actually need to work through the feelings. It can be easy to let the feelings run your thoughts, which cause more feelings, etc. etc. and you get caught up in a whirlwind that just accelerates your anger and hurt. This is not productive, though it is easy to do. The fact is that feelings come up, but we don't have to give them the gas to set a fire. We can just sit with the feeling, and see what it's doing in our bodies, and let it happen and eventually it will dissipate. It's only when we start tossing little "thought logs" on the fire that it seems to get out of control.
Originally Posted by veganchick
You are right. I just spent 15 minutes typing a response only to realize that while apologizing it still might appear as a justification. So, I deleted it. I will probably choose to speak less as a result, as well. It is a HUGE relief to me to know that there is even a tiny bit of hope that with a lot of time/energy we could possibly reconcile. I agree that we should stop discussing.
Probably a good idea. And maybe just taking some time to sit with your emotions, too. Feeling bad about hurting someone is a good thing, but only if you use that to see what happened and what was going on with you at the time. Guilt-tripping yourself endlessly won't help you as a person, or the two of you as a couple.
We are all human and we all make mistakes. If we can acknowledge our mistakes, take a good look at them, and maybe sometimes learn from them, that's about all we can expect.
Originally Posted by Magdlyn
Yes, I sadly noticed that, in Podunk's thread, he felt compelled to mention how VC's body was not his ideal (even tho her figure and hair sounds hot as hell), and how thank god her ass is filling out a little as she gets older.
Isn't love based on what is inside, not the outside package? I have no idea how much Podunk talks about how VC isn't his ideal woman, looks-wise, but the fact that he brought it up on his thread, when it was rather irrelevant, makes me go, hmmm... How has this issue affected VC's self esteem?
I noticed this too, and sometimes I don't think some guys get how what they say/do can seriously affect how we feel about ourselves.
An example, my hubs loves to look at women, and I don't mind at all. But sometimes he'll see some woman and say "not all that", and I'm looking at her thinking about how much more beautiful she is than me. So my mind takes that as-- if she's not all that, what the hell am I????
Yes, this is basic self-esteem stuff, and that's what I need to fix for myself, but the point is he is not even commenting on ME, and I think most likely doesn't even know that it is causing an internal self-esteem train wreck.
Honestly I wish we all (men and women) could get away from commenting/talking about outside appearances all the damn time and focus on the stuff that really matters.