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Old 09-11-2011, 08:58 PM
trueRiver trueRiver is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Manchester, England & Tain, Scotland
Posts: 85

Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Oh, my statement didn't come out right at all now that I see it again!
I am glad you posted that line before I responded, nycindie.

Of course, I know there is a wonderful bond that happens between a parent and their biological children, and I don't think it's egotistical in general for people to want children - of course not! What I meant was that those who are obsessed and so focused on that aspect, as if who the child comes from is the most important thing about having a child, comes out of ego. ....
But I stll think this is unfair. Many many many women feel like this, and it is totally accepted. When one in a whatever many women feels exactly the same as all the others, but has reproductive problems, people say she has an ego issue if she goes for the full technology. I say she's as entitled too use tech to become fertile as other women in other situations use tech to prevent fertility. We are no longer as a species dependent on nature for controlling fertility, and that works both ways...

And as for me, all I can tell you is my brother was born just five days before my third birthday, and by the time he was a few months old I knew this was what I wanted to do. And because it was seeing my mum look after him, I wanted to be as close to being a mum as a boy can get. And Mum gave me every encouragement, and never warned me that the world ain't set up to allow that to happen easily.

And in my experience, it seems to be the feminist women, rather than the mainstream system, who do most to prevent it happening.

And there are huge numbers of women who tell a bloke that is good, that they wish their fella would want to do more (or even some) of the childcare, but it always seems to be on the basis that the man has no right to be there as soon as the woman changes her mind. She has a right to her own life, it is said, and to take the children along with her in that life.

Several people posted that I overreacted against what you said earlier in this thread, and I took time out to think.

I do owe you an apology.

But I want you to understand that it hurts when you bond with a child or a step child (I have experience of both) and then the bond is broken simply because the woman changes her mind. It has happened to me several times, it has happened to most of my male friends, many of them more than once...

And nobody nobody nobody even dreams of expecting that of a woman.

And maybe it really is better with the Na, but the idea of still being dependent on the Mum for contact with the child, even if the mum is my sister not my partner, still leaves me fearful. And then do I miss out if I only have brothers (as is the case?).

No, for me the solution is to move towards more equality, not back to a system that was invented before men's part in producing children was understood.

There are two Rivers here now: which one is this?

quaker poly experiences and poly: a quaker perspective

I hope other British Quakers who are poly (or wonder if they are) will contact me here, thanks, Friends.

Last edited by trueRiver; 09-11-2011 at 09:12 PM.
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