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Old 09-07-2011, 11:38 PM
trueRiver trueRiver is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Manchester, England & Tain, Scotland
Posts: 85

Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
TRiver, you're my age! I was 19 in 1974 as well. You and I are no spring chickens. We are 56 years old.
good joining of the dots Magdlyn, yes born April 55
You want to find a young fertile woman who will live with you and this hypothetical infant you want to raise, to nurture, to cuddle and diaper and bathe and play with. To spend sleepless nights walking the floors with it, to clean up its considerable messes, to deal with its tantrums and various psychological quirks and issues as it grows from a newborn to adulthood.
live together or not, I want that relationship with a baby from very young upwards, yes, always have. I have had several attempts at that, twice with a child I have fathered and others with step children, in several different living patterns (couple, commune, separate homes).

Gave up on the idea of the child being fathered by me in 2000 when got involved with single parent and ended up doing lots of the childcare, did more of the school stuff (seeing stepdaughter in special school events, etc) than mum, figured that at my age then and with no offers in sight having a step d was best I was likely
to get. We never lived together, but we had keys to each other's places and I would do the school run and give step d her tea at either place depending.

Then after four years of telling me she never wants a second child, she gets broody, can we...

Plans for my daughter, before she was conceived, were that we would share childcare roughly equally but as soon as weaning was over that childcare would be split between our separate homes. Promises were made, and forgotten as soon as she was pregnant and decided to cut me off from step d and to do everything possible to prevent me seeing the then unborn child.

So bear with me please if I seem reluctant to look at arrangements where men are encouraged to be involved in childcare if that involvement is mediated through a maternal veto.

And that was not the first time for me either - I been cut off from other people's children with whim I have bonded before, and was not allowed to do much of the childcare for my son, who is somewhat older, and that again involved a serious breach of. my trust.

The Na arrangement would be more stable in that sense, and had I been born in that culture I am likely to have done better there than I have here. In that theoretical sense nycindie is right: but it does not give me any practical help for coping with this society. Applied to this society the denial of the father role simply adds one more reason to 'justify' the overridning importance of the mother, a view pushed by patriarchy and by too many feminists, in an odd alliance.

You are also polyamorous and *expect* a young mother ...
no, not expect (my emphasis there). I'd say hope rather than expect... and poly or mono, I have been in both in the past and if someone wanted a child with me now, almost everything would be negotiable, except i'd want to really believe I was going to get a fair chance to do the childcare this time. I've wanted to do that for 53 years, which takes me back to the birth of my brother, and seeing mum with him and knowing this was what I wanted when I grew up, and being encouraged by her to believe it is possible, and not realising till much later that our society does not want men who want that.

So I figure my best two remaining hopes are broody career women (mono/poly/whateveer) who are looking for a guy who is up for doing lotsa childcare, or some polytangle with similar needs for several kids...

May I just say, I am in awe of your energy, hopes and desires in late middle age.
why, thank you

but except when I look in the mirror, I don't feel older than I did in 1985, more cynical perhaps, but no older inside.... and 'late middle age' is clearly right by the calendar but has no connection with how I see myself.

Interestingly, in Woman on the Edge of Time (feminist utopia, mid 70s, Marge Piercy) it is the elderly who do much of the care of the very young, because their sleep patterns match. I can identify with that - I would do better now with a teething baby than I would have at 26, because I rarely sleep through the night now, usually awake for a while in the early hours.

There are two Rivers here now: which one is this?

quaker poly experiences and poly: a quaker perspective

I hope other British Quakers who are poly (or wonder if they are) will contact me here, thanks, Friends.
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