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Seeker90 04-06-2011 08:31 PM

Need Help/First Loves/Advice Welcome
 
Hi everyone, I'm new to this both this site and the whole polyamorous relationship thing. So I'll give a bit of background on my situation cause I'd really like some input and maybe advice too. I'm using fake names for privacy.

Basically everything started at the end of 2009. I met this guy (Drew) online and we hit it off. I'd just recently begun to feel comfortable with my sexuality and it was nice having someone to talk to. After a couple weeks of online chatting we exchanged phone numbers. It was around then that I found out that he had a partner of a few years. I was fine with it all and we continued to talk.

His partner didn't like me at all to begin with. He didn't want me texting or calling or communicating online at all. So to be polite I tried to listen to him and be respectful. It was around Christmas of 2009 that his partner (Brian) finally saw who Drew had been talking to. He seemed nice, but I didn't really think much of it and then left for vacation shortly afterwards.

Anyway while I was gone, I started to communicate with them both. Drew told be that Brian was pleasantly surprised by me, that I was cute and nice to talk with. I was happy. I should probably mention that at the time I was 19, Drew 28, and Brian was just about to turn 27. Towards the end of my trip Brian then gave me his contact information and wanted to chat as well. I got home from my vacation on a Friday and classes at my university didn't resume until Monday, so I spent the weekend talking with them both alot and getting to know them much better.

So January passed and we all continued to talk. The I guess what you could call friendship/relationship continued to develop. We'd talk about everyday and/or Skype with each other frequently. Valentine's Day Drew and I brought up the idea of visiting to Brian over my spring break. And he agreed so we planned for me to stay for a week with them. I paid for the plane ticket and waited anxiously to meet them both. I was probably the happiest I'd ever been, because I'd started to really develop feelings over them both even though they lived on the other side of the country.

About a week before I left I was talking to Drew and as he was leaving I told him I loved him. Which I did, and meant it. But he never replied back to the statement and so I dropped the matter. I left a few days after to head out to meet them. The plan was to meet at the hotel in the city I'd flown into and then stay the night there before heading back to their home the next morning.

I got to the hotel a bit before them since I'd arrived in the city earlier. I waited in the lobby for them and was reading a book. Suddenly I saw a shadow and before I knew it I had a pair of muscle arms around me. I spun around and saw that it was Drew. And being a clutz that I am knocked over all the luggage that I brought. I hugged him and then waved to Brian who was checking in. We picked up my stuff and then headed towards the elevator. I was completely dumbstruck and couldn't believe this was all happening. It seemed to be like something from a movie, not something that happens to me.

So we got to the hotel room and Brian walked to the bathroom. I was the last person to get into the room and was shutting the door, as I turned Drew pinned me against the door and gave me my first gay kiss. After we pulled apart, I stood there stunned slightly, in a good way. He then went to the bathroom to shower before dinner as Brian came out. I was sitting on the couch by then and he sat down next to me and then kissed me too. Afterwards we all cleaned up and went out to dinner.

Following dinner we returned back to the hotel we all got into bed and relaxed, amongst other things, but I don't want to go into details on all that sort of stuff. But I think that the knowledge that activities of a sexual nature did and have occurred. We didn't have sex as I was still a virgin at the time. We all then fell asleep in the bed together.

The next morning we went back to their house. And I spent a week there which was one of the best weeks ever. I fell completely in love with them both. One night when I was laying in bed with Drew while Brian was in the shower, he was behind me, he whispered he loved me too, but that he didn't reply when I said it before because he wanted me to hear it in person.

Anyways, I'll speed things up now. I returned after school was out for the summer in June. That was the first time we had sex, with Drew wanting/knowingly/and willingly being my first. I visited them again in and in August and they came and saw me in July. Then the semester started back up in September and I wasn't able to see them in person anyway.

In early September issues started arising with communication and I made strides to gain attention from them which ultimately backfired and strained things sorta, but nothing horrible. Towards late September and into early October I started getting a weird vibe from Drew that something was up. I asked Brian, but he assured me that it was nothing, which I believed because he'd never lied to me before.

Things continued on with what I considered normal. I returned there the day after Christmas 2010 for a 9 day stay with them. It was over this time that I found out some things that I never wanted to know. While they were at work one day, I went and opened Drew's laptop, not to snoop, but to watch a movie on netflix and he'd left his Skype open to a chat with this other guy. The context was all too similar to how I'd begun talking to him. There was talk of possibly meeting and everything seemed to be just like how it had been with me a year ago.

I didn't stay anything for a few days until I was alone with Brian at the store. Then I asked him who this Michael guy was, who was a few months younger than me I found out. He tried to explain it shouldn't bother me that it was nothing serious and nothing was going to happen. But I couldn't shake it, I felt lied to and betrayed by someone I truly loved. I didn't want to stay in the house anymore and went and moved my stuff into their guest unit. That was until there was a confrontation about it in there after I'd left that house without telling anyone cause I wanted to be by myself.

Drew, was in tears for the pain that he'd caused me. I was too, but I was completely destroyed on the inside. My trust was gone and I nearly hated him for it. He apologized and said he never meant for it to hurt me. I asked him to delete Michael from his phone which he did. And we tried to enjoy the rest of the trip.

I still couldn't trust either of them after I left. I loved them both more than anyone else in the world. But I didn't feel like I could trust either of them afterwards. I was then constantly checking to make sure nothing was arising with this Michael. It really started to bother me, because no one would give me answers and said I was being paranoid and controlling.

Finally in February I tried to end things with them. Not really end things, but to show them that this was the point that they'd driven me. I decided them from facebook, skype, and wouldn't call or text them. I got into a big argument with them as I was doing this. They said that I was messing everything up, not in our relationship, but in their lives, because of needing to know everything.

A week went by without communication with either of them. It was horrible, it drove me crazy, I wanted to see and speak to them both so much. I just felt empty and couldn't focus on my schoolwork or anything. When we finally talked I said I forgave them, and wanted us to be on good terms cause I knew that if we're just honest we could work through everything. They both told me that they didn't want to though, but still wanted me to be their friend. And both continued to urge me to move to the nearby city for school which is about an hour south of them.

Now it's about where it is in the current time. We still talk, nearly everyday to every other day. Drew and I have no communication how we used to. We don't have playful conversations, don't talk about the future, I don't even really enjoy talking to him all that much. I still love him and want to be back together with him. But I'm afraid that if I don't talk to him nothing will get better. Brian it's a bit better and we can do some stuff as before.

I've repeatedly said I want to have things the way they were, and they both know that, it's not a secret. The thing that is making me somewhat mad is that I gave them both second chances in December when it was pretty much nearly cheating on me, and that's what I told them it felt like. But that I'm not given another chance, even though I was pushed in my decision.

I don't trust them still because of what occurred and their responses to everything these past couple months. But I still love them and believe that we can all be together happily.

I'd just like any input on the situation. What you think would help or I could/should do to have things the way they were. What to do about Drew and this need to communicate with people or get admirable from people that don't care about him, like Michael. I do love them both and want to be with them. So any advice that could possibly make that happen is very welcomed.

MrFarFromRight 04-06-2011 10:42 PM

Whew! Quite a saga. But despite it's length (and I'm not complaining) there are questions you leave unanswered:

Why do you say that Drew cheated on you? Did you have an agreement with him that he would begin no new friendships? Perhaps he felt that - because you knew of his longer-term relationship with Brian - you wouldn't have an issue with other relationships.

Why do you state that Michael doesn't care about Drew. Remember that Brian didn't want Drew communicating with you... until he got to know you. What do you really know about Michael?

All this "getting to know", "his partner (Brian) finally saw who Drew had been talking to", etc. Was this in person, or he saw you on skype or something?

Had you actually met Drew in person before you told him online that you loved him (a week before you flew out to stay with them both)?

I'm reading between the lines here, but you write: "His partner didn't like me at all to begin with. He didn't want me texting or calling or communicating online at all. So to be polite I tried to listen to him and be respectful." What do you mean "I tried to listen to him and be respectful"? Tried and failed (the attraction that you felt for Drew was too strong to resist)?

I'm sorry, but a possible reading of all this is that you're being somewhat hypocritical: demanding standards of behaviour from Drew - now that you've started a relationship with him - that you were willing to encourage him to flout before Brian decided that you were cute.

I apologise if it appears that I'm jumping to conclusions, but - as I wrote at the beginning - you leave certain important questions unanswered.

And if any of my doubts are even slightly well-founded (you write that "no one would give me answers and said I was being paranoid and controlling." [my emphasis... but the accusation didn't come from me]), I think you need to seriously ask yourself just how honest you're being with yourself... and with them.

Seeker90 04-07-2011 12:24 AM

I say that it was like cheating, because there was/seemed to be a mutual understanding that it was us three. When I'd first met them, I also started seeing another guy before anything serious happened with Drew or Brian. This was back when we'd only just begun talking. They got jealous and said they didn't like that I was seeing someone else. That didn't last long anyway and I focused on building something with them.

I know some details about Michael. Nothing too in depth just basic stats about him, where he's from, and what he looks like. Regardless of that, with the presumption that it was just us three, with no indication of seeking others out, I didn't like the communication with Michael. Nor having it happen without my knowledge or being lied to about it.

I talked to them via text, phone, and Skype from December until meeting in March.

No, I hadn't met Drew before realizing that I loved him. But I don't think that it matters whether or not. If I was wrong after meeting him in person I wouldn't have continued to have a relationship with him. I was right in knowing that I loved him from when I felt it.

No, I didn't fail. I stopped and listen to Brian, and let Drew message me. But only communicated with him after asking Brian if it was fine. Soon after Brian also started talking with me more.

I think that answers all the questions posed.

MrFarFromRight 04-07-2011 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75117)
I say that it was like cheating, because there was/seemed to be a mutual understanding that it was us three. When I'd first met them, I also started seeing another guy before anything serious happened with Drew or Brian. This was back when we'd only just begun talking. They got jealous and said they didn't like that I was seeing someone else. That didn't last long anyway and I focused on building something with them.

I know some details about Michael. Nothing too in depth just basic stats about him, where he's from, and what he looks like. Regardless of that, with the presumption that it was just us three, with no indication of seeking others out, I didn't like the communication with Michael. Nor having it happen without my knowledge or being lied to about it.

I talked to them via text, phone, and Skype from December until meeting in March.

No, I hadn't met Drew before realizing that I loved him. But I don't think that it matters whether or not. If I was wrong after meeting him in person I wouldn't have continued to have a relationship with him. I was right in knowing that I loved him from when I felt it.

No, I didn't fail. I stopped and listen to Brian, and let Drew message me. But only communicated with him after asking Brian if it was fine. Soon after Brian also started talking with me more.

I think that answers all the questions posed.

Yes, thanks for filling those missing bits in.

BlackUnicorn 04-07-2011 09:40 AM

Hullo and welcome!

First loves are tough, especially if they happen to be same-sex poly loves because of all the cultural baggage and lack of workable models to imitate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
I was fine with it all and we continued to talk.

How did you discuss this? Was poly ever brought up? Had Drew and Brian done this before?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
His partner didn't like me at all to begin with. He didn't want me texting or calling or communicating online at all. So to be polite I tried to listen to him and be respectful.

Why didn't he like it? Jealousy? Was this a first poly experience to all three of you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
I should probably mention that at the time I was 19, Drew 28, and Brian was just about to turn 27.

The fact that you bring up age twice in your post leads me to think if this is something you are worried about? Michael being a few months younger than you, the whole situation seemingly repeating itself... Are you worried they might be duckling-hunters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
That was the first time we had sex, with Drew wanting/knowingly/and willingly being my first.

One-on-one sex with Drew or (eventually) a threesome? I'm trying to figure if this is a vee or triad dynamic we are talking about here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
In early September issues started arising with communication and I made strides to gain attention from them which ultimately backfired and strained things sorta, but nothing horrible.

Is 'trying to get attention' an euphemism for trying to arouse their jealousy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
...he'd left his Skype open to a chat with this other guy. The context was all too similar to how I'd begun talking to him. There was talk of possibly meeting and everything seemed to be just like how it had been with me a year ago.

I think one of the most common reasons behind jealous responses is a feeling of being replaced, which obviously happened for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
I didn't stay anything for a few days until I was alone with Brian at the store. Then I asked him who this Michael guy was, who was a few months younger than me I found out. He tried to explain it shouldn't bother me that it was nothing serious and nothing was going to happen. But I couldn't shake it, I felt lied to and betrayed by someone I truly loved. I didn't want to stay in the house anymore and went and moved my stuff into their guest unit. That was until there was a confrontation about it in there after I'd left that house without telling anyone cause I wanted to be by myself.

Okay, three BIG mistakes here.
1) You didn't talk right away about your feelings but let them fester.
2) When you did open, you did it with the wrong person.
3) Instead of dealing with your feelings with both of them together, you without explanation moved out and only then, when cornered, chose to address the issue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
I asked him to delete Michael from his phone which he did. And we tried to enjoy the rest of the trip.

Why did you do that? The cure for jealousy, as you probably noticed, is not to ask the person you care about to change their behavior but to change your own reactions to it. To rebuild connection and trust, not to introduce ultimatums. Cheating is horrible and destroys your sense of self-worth, which leads to paranoia and controlling behaviors. The answer is to work on your self and your insecurities, not to artificially try to stop anything from developing between the object of your suspicions and your SO, which never works anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
Not really end things, but to show them that this was the point that they'd driven me. I decided them from facebook, skype, and wouldn't call or text them. I got into a big argument with them as I was doing this. They said that I was messing everything up, not in our relationship, but in their lives, because of needing to know everything.

Histrionics. Instead of communicating about your feelings, you took dramatic steps to ensure a reaction, any reaction, would occur. It backfired again, as you probably could have guessed by your previous attempt to get their attention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
They both told me that they didn't want to though, but still wanted me to be their friend.

This has happened to me, too. A person told me they were not interested in dating me any longer because of the unreliable way I acted, but wanted to be friends nevertheless. I'm trying to build bridges atm, more for my own sake than to force this relationship to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
I've repeatedly said I want to have things the way they were, and they both know that, it's not a secret. The thing that is making me somewhat mad is that I gave them both second chances in December when it was pretty much nearly cheating on me, and that's what I told them it felt like. But that I'm not given another chance, even though I was pushed in my decision.

I think you've actually been given two second chances. First after the stuff you pulled in early Sep, whatever that was, then after this moving out without explaining anything, and then you cut off internet ties, which broke the camel's neck. How many more chances do you need before you start owning up to your own actions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75088)
I'd just like any input on the situation. What you think would help or I could/should do to have things the way they were.

Show them that you are reliable. Ask them to forgive the things you did before. Acknowledge that you are very young, the situation is entirely unfamiliar and you are all more likely than not doing this for the first time, then forgive both them and yourself.

Stop doing instead of talking. Don't pull stunts just to get their attention. They create resentment and prevent communication.

Accept that you are probably put on a probation period and treated with suspicion for a time. Talk honestly about what this relationship is about. Are you a triad? Are you a poly-fi triad? Are you a vee? A poly-fi vee? What's going on here, what can you expect? Don't rely on understandings but ask!

Work on your self-esteem and insecurity issues. Self-educate on poly, jealousy, non-violent communication etc. Consider getting back on dating again. I personally am somewhat suspicious of poly-fi-anything if it's long-distance, especially in your configuration where there is a primary couple and their unicorn who lives out of town. They might not be able to fulfill all your needs for intimacy and emotional support. Please don't skip towns to be closer to them. Focus on building a social network of your own, independent of their relationship.

Please don't take this as me saying you are bad or you should have seen this coming. This is coming with love from someone who has done very similar mistakes herself and honestly wants to help.

Seeker90 04-07-2011 05:09 PM

Thanks for the advice
 
Yeah, I'm new to all this. So some of the lingo I'm not quite understanding. I've listed some below that I don't know what they mean, so if you could explain those it would be helpful.

Are you a poly-fi triad? Are you a vee? A poly-fi vee? Unicorn

Derbylicious 04-07-2011 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker90 (Post 75254)
Yeah, I'm new to all this. So some of the lingo I'm not quite understanding. I've listed some below that I don't know what they mean, so if you could explain those it would be helpful.

Are you a poly-fi triad? Are you a vee? A poly-fi vee? Unicorn

Poly-fi triad: Three people all involved with each other to the exclusion of outside sexual realtaionships.

Vee: 2 people both sexually involved with one hinge person but not with each other.

Poly-fi vee: See "Vee" above but with no outside sexual relationships with anyone else.

Unicorn: A person who is in a relationship with a previously established couple. Usually with no other relationships outside of that couple.

hope that helps.

Seeker90 04-07-2011 06:01 PM

Thanks for the definitions
 
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I guess I want it to be a triad with just us three with no other person brought it. That was always my belief that it was just me, Drew, and Brian. I even asked and was assured on numerous occasions if it was just us three and the answer was always yes.

So that is why I didn't take the Michael thing from Drew very well. Also in regards to Michael, Brian doesn't talk to him, and has said he has no desire to either.

So not only did I want Michael gone so Drew would focus on myself and Brian, but I didn't want him (Michael) to cause Drew pain or force arguments to occur between us three, which did happen. And Brian was on my side with the Michael incident as well.

Tonberry 04-07-2011 07:08 PM

Thanks for explaining the situation better. At first it seemed to me like you had double standards (Drew didn't tell you about Brian right away, and presumably didn't tell him about you right away either, then he did the same thing with Michael, and you're upset about the second time while obviously you knew he was like that since that's how you met) but then you add that they asked you to break up with someone else because they wanted you to only date them, so it seems to me it made sense for you to expect the same thing in return.

Then you say they told you several times that it was going to just be the three of you, and then Drew lied about talking to a new person, and Brian apparently covered for Drew.

The fact that you are jealous is one thing, however I'm trying to put that aside and look at the whole situation. It seems to me Drew and Brian have been together for a while. Drew likes talking to other guys, and Brian doesn't like it too much, but seems to have tolerated it in the past, or be used to it, or be fine with it as long as the guy Drew likes is someone he (Brian) likes too.

When you entered the relationship, fidelity was expected, you say. But wasn't it also expected between Drew and Brian? It seems that Drew has a problem with that. We know of at least two occasions (you and Micheal) when he talked to someone else online and wasn't being honest. For that matter, do you know that Michael is aware of the situation? You weren't told about Brian right away, after all.

Then there is the matter of how you reacted. It was your first experience, and you felt strongly about things, and you dealt with them as you could at the time... the fact is that they found it controlling and manipulative, and well, from the way you describe it, it does seem like you wanted to get them to do things without going to talk to them. You wanted to provoke a reaction. You wanted to shock them, etc. You probably thought it would "teach them" and they would realise they could lose you, and change their behaviour?
Instead they thought "we don't need that kind of things" and aren't interested in a relationship with you anymore.

I think you need to see your own mistakes here. Admitting you reacted in wrong ways doesn't mean they were in the right. I can see why you would say Drew cheated if he said he wouldn't do it and still did, and lied about it. Then again, maybe he was just chatting with that guy and didn't plan on a serious relationship with him, and therefore didn't think of it as cheating. How clear were you about your boundaries?

So many things are "obvious" to people who are in a relationship that they don't talk about them. And then they realise it was also "obvious" to their partners, but not the same thing was obvious!

Maybe they expected YOU to be faithful to them, but never felt they had to do the same. Maybe Drew thought chatting would be fine. Maybe he's been doing that kind of things for years and you were the fluke that became an actual relationship rather than something on the side.

I don't know if you can start a relationship again with them, but if you want to you'll need to heal from the relationship first and put it all behind you.

Seeker90 04-08-2011 01:11 AM

Thanks Tonberry
 
Yeah, alot of what you said is true. I also see that and have been trying to work on things. Like I said, I still talk with them. I just got off the phone with Brian before checking and replying to this.

Both of them still want me to move to the city in the fall for school. So I'm thinking/hoping that the physically being closer instead of 2 timezones apart will help things.

I know that I'm not in the complete right here. I also see the points that you and some other people are bringing up. I would like to address them with both Drew and Brian, but wouldn't know how to do it at this stage of things. I'd be afraid of messing things up further.

Also I want to know how I can effectively communicate that while I understand where I have been wrong and want to improve on those aspects myself, I want you (particularly Drew) to realize that you destroyed that blind trust in me. And you'll need to earn it back, and I'm more than willing to give you that chance, but I'm not going to be freely trusting again, you need to prove to me I can trust you, that sort of message.

Any other advice is still welcome. Thanks to everyone so far too.


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