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-   -   about fairness (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8380)

esarati300 04-02-2011 03:09 AM

about fairness
 
here is the deal. i let my wife go out with this guy and i have no partner. is that fair at all? makes me kinda jealous that i don't have a partner. when she go see him she go to his house. i mean what am i getting out of this? plus i get lonely when she leaves. she is only thinking of herself and not me. am i going crazy? i have met this guy and he is really down to earth. should me and the guy talk more to each other? i mean he is going out with my wife. i feel left out of the group. any help would be nice.

MonoVCPHG 04-02-2011 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esarati300 (Post 74250)
here is the deal. i let my wife go out with this guy and i have no partner. is that fair at all? makes me kinda jealous that i don't have a partner. when she go see him she go to his house. i mean what am i getting out of this? plus i get lonely when she leaves. she is only thinking of herself and not me. am i going crazy? i have met this guy and he is really down to earth. should me and the guy talk more to each other? i mean he is going out with my wife. i feel left out of the group. any help would be nice.

Do you want other partners and can't find them?

If you've opened up your relationship than things won't happen at the same time for both of you. Accept that. If this is a one sided thing and you agreed to it, you made your own bed. If you didn't want it and aren't ok with it then yeah..I guess it would be unfair...

More details please :)

redpepper 04-02-2011 05:17 AM

you aren't going crazy, this is a common occurrence you are going through. Have a look at some threads on jealousy. You can find them by doing a tag search. Its all very normal and takes time to adjust to. It takes work to work out what you are going to do when she is out, find what boundaries you have on time with her and to work on a metamour relationship with him. Yes, I would get to know him better. It can only help.

Anneintherain 04-02-2011 06:47 AM

I know one couple where the woman has been seeing people for a few years, and the man just started looking for dates recently. It seems to be somewhat stressful for him. What he HAS gotten out of this is an increase in her libido, from what I understand, which has been enough for him to not be out there looking until now.
If you are not happy with what is going on, renegotiate, if what you want is to be seeing others, SEEK them out. If you enjoy the company of the man she is seeing, that is great, I have never really heard badly about getting to know the people your partners are dating if you like them, and it can probably lead to much more comfort overall, and in the best case scenario, to great friendships.

Tonberry 04-02-2011 07:32 PM

I think you should tell your wife about feeling excluded, and see if she can include you more. You could have dates with the three of you, or bonding time with her boyfriend, or have her keep you informed of things, whatever makes you feel less left out.

About fairness, well it's kind of a hard question. I don't think fairness is the same as parity. I mean that I don't think you should always have partners at the same time.
Let me explain: if you push it to its logical conclusion, if one of you breaks up with their partner, then the other one has to as well, even if the relationship is going great, even if there is love, etc. That would, in my opinion, not make it fair at all, even though it's about parity. It wouldn't be fair to the two people whose relationship is working, and it would be extremely unfair to the other partner who had nothing to do with any breakup.

This is similar. If she really likes this guy and he likes her, is she obligated to wait until you find someone too? That doesn't seem fair to him and her. It's too bad that you're not finding partners, and it's notoriously harder for males to find females than the other way around, so I sympathise, but I don't think putting her relationships on hold indefinitely is the way to go. I think it has the potential to damage your relationship with your wife, as she would grow to resent you more and more for not allowing her to be with someone she likes "just because YOU can't find someone".

You can however ask her to be understanding of the fact that you don't have another partner, and feel lonely when she's gone, for instance. I think you should definitely find things to do when you miss her (hang out with friends, indulge in a hobby she doesn't share, etc). You can probably find advantages to that time away from her to do things you want to do but don't when she's around for whatever reason.

Make sure she knows how you feel. It's very important, since otherwise you might be more and more upset with her as time goes by and she'll have no idea why.

Indigomontoya 04-02-2011 09:31 PM

I can definitely sympathize with you, my wife has a boyfriend and I've yet to have another partner; I understand the frustration it can bring, but as you will read (depending on a lot of variables) it is harder for men to find willing poly partners (that is, women who can share you emotionally).

I was jealous of my wife, and sometimes still am a little bit, because she has found multiple men willing to participate on an emotional level in a poly relationship. That being said jealousy is a secondary emotion, it is never caused by an event but rather caused by an emotional reaction to an event....you're wife has a partner, goes out, you feel scared she might leave (a common example) or you feel lonely and upset you're not going out (another example) so your reaction is to feel insecure and that leads to jealousy....So when you feel jealous, don't accept that your wife having a partner or going out is the cause of it, rather that it's your own mins creating the jealousy from insecurity or what have you...

More details are needed but what's keeping you from finding another partner? You cannot expect the clouds to open up and women willing to be in poly to fall from the sky...there's a scenario I faced called valley of the dolls and it basically boils down to opening a relationship up and then expecting a flood of available partners for you; it's not going to happen and like me you will need to accept that relationships progress along different timelines as do searches for partners...I also found meeting my wife's boyfriend to be particularly helpful and I developed a friendship with him that actually is independent of my wife...we're nerds, we talk nerd to each other...

What's stopping you from going out on your own? When my wife went out with her boyfriend the first few times I was anxious, jealous and lonely...because I isolated myself. Eventually I just filled my time with friends, the gym, anything I liked and that helped alleviate the loneliness (bear in mind, my wife will tell you, I'm an extrovert who can and will chat with anyone)

As for the question of fairness, have you discussed these feelings with your wife? Have you set guidelines? As a good rule, and if your wife isn't totally disregarding your feelings, her time and her relationship are in part subject to how comfortable you are, within reason. Guidelines for time spent together, how quickly her relationship progresses, etc need to be set but to be honest there are limits that you need to realize that you need to allow her relationship to grow naturally but not at the cost of your own well being.

BlackUnicorn 04-03-2011 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonberry (Post 74361)
About fairness, well it's kind of a hard question. I don't think fairness is the same as parity. I mean that I don't think you should always have partners at the same time.
Let me explain: if you push it to its logical conclusion, if one of you breaks up with their partner, then the other one has to as well, even if the relationship is going great, even if there is love, etc. That would, in my opinion, not make it fair at all, even though it's about parity. It wouldn't be fair to the two people whose relationship is working, and it would be extremely unfair to the other partner who had nothing to do with any breakup.

Yep yep, parity reflects more what I understand to be the swinger mentality. You can't force neither love nor connections.

If you are a male and are looking for female sexual partners, a few house rules will almost guarantee success;
1) Take a shower. Clip you nails. Wash your teeth.
2) Take a look at your manners. Are you a chauvinistic pig? See point three.
3) Try to curb that open resentment you feel towards women who are not sleeping with you. It does show.
4) Still no success? Consider lowering your standards. We can't all be banging Angelina Jolie, after all. She needs sleep, too.

I personally don't believe finding sex partners is THAT much more difficult for men that it is for women, whereas finding LOVE is difficult, period. However, if you want to get out to the dating scene, try one of these tricks;
1) Be interested. Cultivate a hobby, a past time, a passion. People who are interested are interesting.
2) Open yourself to love. It does show.
3) Be patient. The universe seems to work in a way that when you really really want someone in your life like NOW, nobody's out there. And when you are happy and content and fulfilled they start coming from every direction. Literally, you can't take a walk through a bar without being hit on two or three times.

Indigomontoya 04-03-2011 05:00 PM

I have to echo BlackUnicorn's points. Finding a woman who is willing to share emotionally takes time, and patience. So the point of finding a past time is two fold, occupy your time and give you something to be passionate about.

TL4everu2 04-04-2011 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn (Post 74425)
Yep yep, parity reflects more what I understand to be the swinger mentality. You can't force neither love nor connections.

If you are a male and are looking for female sexual partners, a few house rules will almost guarantee success;
1) Take a shower. Clip you nails. Wash your teeth.
2) Take a look at your manners. Are you a chauvinistic pig? See point three.
3) Try to curb that open resentment you feel towards women who are not sleeping with you. It does show.
4) Still no success? Consider lowering your standards. We can't all be banging Angelina Jolie, after all. She needs sleep, too.

I personally don't believe finding sex partners is THAT much more difficult for men that it is for women, whereas finding LOVE is difficult, period. However, if you want to get out to the dating scene, try one of these tricks;
1) Be interested. Cultivate a hobby, a past time, a passion. People who are interested are interesting.
2) Open yourself to love. It does show.
3) Be patient. The universe seems to work in a way that when you really really want someone in your life like NOW, nobody's out there. And when you are happy and content and fulfilled they start coming from every direction. Literally, you can't take a walk through a bar without being hit on two or three times.

Spoken like a true woman. :rolleyes: The harsh reality is this: A woman has but to open her legs and say "anyone wanna do it?" And she will have men begging to get into her good graces.

Men, however, have a much more difficult time. (unless they are a greek god and hung like a horse. 50% aint bad I guess. Which 50% is for everyone on here to think about. LMAO! J/K) A man has to be witty, and cautious when looking for a woman to romance. Not to mention he has to think fast on his feet. None of these things are required by women. All she has to do is be willing to jump in the sack and she will have a man.

Now, for a relationship of more substance, yes...it is a LITTLE more difficult. But not much. Usually, all it takes for a woman to find a man, is the willingness to be open to a relationship.

redpepper 04-04-2011 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn (Post 74425)
If you are a male and are looking for female sexual partners, a few house rules will almost guarantee success;
1) Take a shower. Clip you nails. Wash your teeth.
2) Take a look at your manners. Are you a chauvinistic pig? See point three.
3) Try to curb that open resentment you feel towards women who are not sleeping with you. It does show.
4) Still no success? Consider lowering your standards. We can't all be banging Angelina Jolie, after all. She needs sleep, too.

I personally don't believe finding sex partners is THAT much more difficult for men that it is for women, whereas finding LOVE is difficult, period. However, if you want to get out to the dating scene, try one of these tricks;
1) Be interested. Cultivate a hobby, a past time, a passion. People who are interested are interesting.
2) Open yourself to love. It does show.
3) Be patient. The universe seems to work in a way that when you really really want someone in your life like NOW, nobody's out there. And when you are happy and content and fulfilled they start coming from every direction. Literally, you can't take a walk through a bar without being hit on two or three times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TL4everu2 (Post 74524)
Spoken like a true woman. :rolleyes: The harsh reality is this: A woman has but to open her legs and say "anyone wanna do it?" And she will have men begging to get into her good graces.

Men, however, have a much more difficult time. (unless they are a greek god and hung like a horse. 50% aint bad I guess. Which 50% is for everyone on here to think about. LMAO! J/K) A man has to be witty, and cautious when looking for a woman to romance. Not to mention he has to think fast on his feet. None of these things are required by women. All she has to do is be willing to jump in the sack and she will have a man.

Now, for a relationship of more substance, yes...it is a LITTLE more difficult. But not much. Usually, all it takes for a woman to find a man, is the willingness to be open to a relationship.

I like your list Blackunicorn. I agree with much of what you say. Women spend a lot of time and attention on these points and generally speaking from my own dating experience and from what I hear men talk about while not in the company of women, men do not.

Not that men have to be like women at all but they need to realize that they are far more attractive if they take care of themselves. Full stop. Really, that is so broad and so valid. I know so many men that apparently talk about young thin chics they would bang and how pussy dries up after 30. I hear this from reputable sources... yet they are sitting there with their beer belly's having not seen the light of day for the weekend cause they didn't leave the house and do something.

Women make a huge effort to be presentable and attractive. They make a huge effort to do things with their lives and be active and have interesting careers and do interesting things.... yet men don't seem to be as bothered to do so.

I highlighted above, because this goes both ways. We all have to do certain things to attract a mate of some kind.

As for the opening my legs and just letting all the cocks in? Ya, I have known lots of men that have that attitude. Have gone on dates with a few. I knew one man that drove for three hours to fuck someone he met on line. Had to take something to get it up but went there, fucked her, she offered him to stay the night and he made an excuse that he was allergic to cats and drove back.

Sad, just sad. What that does to women is just sad. If you are not kept well, or are not as "pretty" as others then all you are good for is a fuck. If you are "pretty" and kept yourself well and it shows, then you are objectified and used and all you are good for is a fuck. Sometimes, someone genuinely wants to actually have a relationship with you! :eek: Sigh... there is such a long way to go it seems on this stuff.

Bottom line: Men that listen to women when they tell them what would be attractive in a man will get the girl I think. Women have no problem telling men what they expect. It's when they blow it off that they miss the point and could possibly not have anyone interested in them. There is a HUGE amount of women who just won't even be bothered with men because they tend to not get this point. On dating sites it is super evident. There is not many men given a chance on them because they all come off the same; as wanting to fuck.. If you want to know how to attract a woman, to have a relationship with, ask one that you respect.

Sorry esarati300, this is a little off topic, but not really. Maybe it will help. :)


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