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River 03-15-2011 07:17 PM

Sex & The Spiritual Teacher
 
This may be of interest ...

http://www.tricycle.com/community/se...ritual-teacher

neegoola 07-25-2011 07:57 PM

"The previous four positions are all bogus. The teacher and the student are both consenting adults who are responsible for their own actions. These so-called transgressions are legitimate, consensual relationships."

this is something i considered and i agree with; i've never MET directly a woman who had been manipulated verbally and convinced by her guru to have sex with him (i have at least one sweet and holy she-friend who made the opposite, she answered nothankyou!). i've been hearing about that*.
in my far new-age period i felt very attracted to my present first spiritual brother and to his spouse who helped me to move my first bigger steps as a Soul; there was no powers game going on, there was/is love and friendship and intimacy -and these are for me "reasons" enough to "allow" two or more people to share sex (and "Live the gods" also in this form/way). we were not sharing love phisically because one of us felt ashamed by conditionings about purity. ... and it was not me :rolleyes::)

the writer (if i'm not wrong) starts from the statement that the teacher who has sex with other adults, steps in a fault; he gives for granted that it is a mistake. boffff...

where a proibition is imposed (and every so called religion jumping out from our last 6.000years works on it and on its power), transgression HAS to arrive.
when something is proibited, than the same something can be blamed, shame, lousy; and in many many many cases that same thing is absolutely natural and true and genuine and sacre and pure, maybe it is for this reason that it has been forbidden. is it too much?

*concerning people who cut off their head and family and children to feed, take care about and being present with, for "running behind" someone that still they consider as being a teacher, i add a Lavey' quote:
"no one should be protected from the effects of his own stupidity"
i guess, but maybe i'm wrong, that the same kind of persons could create damages to their families while falling in love and running away with some exotic beauties arriving in town.

last but not least (ohhh, how do i love this sentence!!!) it is very likely that in few years it will be clearer for everyone that we may find (without not even looking for) teachers/gurus at every corner and roundtable in our life; first of all: look into the mirror :) in this way we may be more alert towards eccentric characters influencing our life.

AutumnalTone 08-04-2011 02:06 AM

Examining the list of transgressions convinces me the book is a crock o'shit--some of those I wouldn't qualify as transgressions of any sort. I'd say the only valid argument the author (and the reviewer) could offer to support those as transgressions would be of the social expectations sort mentioned--and that only for specific groups that have those expectations. And some of us don't have any such silly expectations.

River 08-04-2011 02:43 AM

AT, I'm having a difficult time trying to figure what you're getting at in what you just said.

It seems to me that there will be some variation in sexual mores from culture to culture, spiritual tradition to spiritual tradition, but that there are also some universal ethical principles, regardless. Does this much resonate with you?

While I am basically a buddhist, myself, I'm not a conventional nor a very traditional buddhist. I have a significant background in the study of modern psychology, and almost all of the buddhist teachers who have deeply influenced my understanding of dharma are also psychotherapists, so this constitutes much of my own personal frame of reference. For me, a "spiritual teacher" is largely a psychological guide -- though with a transpersonal perspective on human psychology. In this context, because power relations and "transference" (etc.) can gum up the works, it is a long standing tradition not to engage in sexual relations with clients (or students).

This, I see as a guiding principle, not an unvariable moral obligation. It depends on the circumstances, as all ethical considerations seem to do. Context is nearly everything.

===

Edit: As I recall (?), you have called your own spiritual tradition by the term "pagan". What sort of a pagan are you? May I ask? My path embraces various magical traditions as well as shamanistic ones. Dharma is just my home base, because it places mindfulness and lovingkindness at it's center, which resonates with my own deepest spiritual needs and intuitions.

AutumnalTone 08-05-2011 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by River (Post 95668)
AT, I'm having a difficult time trying to figure what you're getting at in what you just said.

It seems to me that there will be some variation in sexual mores from culture to culture, spiritual tradition to spiritual tradition, but that there are also some universal ethical principles, regardless. Does this much resonate with you?

The listed transgressions of sexual assault and coercion I find wrong, though not because they occur between a spiritual teacher of any sort and a student, but because they're wrong in any context. The notion that sex between a spiritual teacher and a spiritual seeker is inherently a transgression of some sort is what I call bullshit on.

As I said above, in some groups, it is a violation of social expectations. It's certainly not universal.

So, the book offers a list of transgressions comprised of things that are wrong in any context and things that are wrong only in specific social contexts. That really isn't of much use to anybody not in those social contexts.

Quote:

Edit: As I recall (?), you have called your own spiritual tradition by the term "pagan". What sort of a pagan are you? May I ask? My path embraces various magical traditions as well as shamanistic ones.
No magical tradition here. I'm a Canaanite Reconstructionist.

River 08-05-2011 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutumnalTone (Post 95956)
I'm a Canaanite Reconstructionist.

I googled this phrase, since I've got not much more than the very faintest clue what a Canaanite Reconstructionist might be. And my google didn't turn up anything that seemed concise and to the point descriptive. Can you help? I'm curious.

As for magic in my life -- I pretty much assume that everthing has mystery about it, which is to say that it is more unknown than known. Yet we humans like to map and model and theorize -- and probably cannot help it, anyway. So my magical practice is simply a matter of acknowledging that I don't know how it is, what it is.... And then I open to beauty and truth and goodness and welcome its arrival. It actually works! I experience much beauty and goodness and truth. So I suppose it is a kind of science as much as a kind of magic. Hypotheses tested, heart desires fulfilled.

AutumnalTone 08-07-2011 07:10 PM

Canaanite Reconstruction focuses on the Canaanite peoples of the Bronze Age and their religious practices, as best as we can tease them out of the limited amount of archaeological evidence we have available. The Canaanites were never a monolithic bloc of people who referred to themselves as such--there were many groups of peoples who shared the same culture (including the peoples who later became the Israelites).

Look here for a basic introduction: canaanitepath.com/stele.htm

Magdlyn 09-11-2011 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutumnalTone (Post 96318)
Canaanite Reconstruction focuses on the Canaanite peoples of the Bronze Age and their religious practices, as best as we can tease them out of the limited amount of archaeological evidence we have available. The Canaanites were never a monolithic bloc of people who referred to themselves as such--there were many groups of peoples who shared the same culture (including the peoples who later became the Israelites).

Look here for a basic introduction: canaanitepath.com/stele.htm

Ohh haven't looked at the link yet, but I am super into preAbrahamic Canaan goddess based religion, Babylonian and Egyptian too, early Greek and Roman.

Let's hear it for the qudesha of Asherah and Ishtar! So railed against, so persecuted by the Levites and Kohein of Judah.

sigh.... I wouldve loved to be a qudesha.

miltownkid 09-25-2011 12:14 PM

Note to self: Don't become a spiritual teacher. :D


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