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-   -   Operation Crash And Burn? (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68239)

Leedia 12-30-2013 08:36 PM

Operation Crash And Burn?
 
I'm new here and this seems like a great place for people to support each other.

We are just getting started in poly and last night had an unsuccessful conversation about boundaries. Long story short, I'm bi, he's not, almost to a phobic degree I feel, and is really struggling with the idea of me being anywhere near another man. Like "la la la I can't hear you" struggling. I'm giving him some time to process everything and my views admittedly have changed since we first started talking (i.e. unicorn), but he is not doing any research on his own and it frustrates me. I've checked with him several times to make sure he's still onboard and he says he is. I just don't know where to go from here.

I also have a man who has approached me on OkC and hes really nice. Its still jut research but he's interested in me and I'm not protesting. Hubs doesn't know yet and I don't know how to bring it up considering our conversation. I'm going to get the book "opening up", but any suggestions would be so helpful.

london 12-30-2013 09:23 PM

Send him these links

http://polytripod.blogspot.co.uk/200...olicy.html?m=1

http://polytical.org/2012/05/one-man...oing-it-wrong/

http://loveisinfinite.wordpress.com/...-non-monogamy/

Or read them yourself and make some of the points to him

GalaGirl 12-30-2013 10:44 PM

Is it a hard limit that will NEVER change over time? Or a soft limit that could change over time? Has he been clear on what kind of personal limitation/limit this is for him?

You could make your next choices based on that information:

1) You are willing to play within that limit so he is comfortable and willing to polyship with you.
Doesn't matter if soft or hard limit, because you are willing to play within it. HOW you do it?
  • That means you remain Closed to just him and let go of polyshipping want. (No man in sight.)
  • That means you polyship only with women. Let go of want to polyship with men and women. (No man in sight.)
2) It is a hard limit for him. You are NOT willing to play within that hard limit.
  • You break up with each other.
  • You are free to pursue polyshipping without him.
  • He is now free from having to considering polyshipping with another guy and you.

3) It is a soft limit. You are willing (for now) to go with it. He is willing to work on changing it.

You both could clarify these things next:

a) He is willing/able to do _____ at this time to help move it forward and begin to change the limit at a pace that is comfortable for him AND you.

b) You are willing/able to do _____ at this time to help move it forward and and begin to change the limit at a pace that is comfortable for him AND you.

c) Progress will be measured in terms of ____(X articles read? Y things tried? Something else?)__. Your next check in will be on _____ date.
4) You have no idea what kind of limit it is. He is not giving you responsiveness. He is not willing to even converse.
a) You could GUESS what it is that bugs him if you think articulating is the hold up. He wants to tell you but is not ABLE because he cannot form the words and needs help in the thinking process.

Is he afraid of competing? Being demoted somehow? Or core beliefs getting in his way?

I don't know if this helps to read together, but it reminded me of this older thread and my response to it.

b) You could give him one more shot to respond. Could tell him

"I would prefer to make a decision together and have your input on board. I am giving you final opportunity to respond. If you do not respond with anything by X date, then I have no other choice but to make a decision for myself without your input taken on board. It is not reasonable to stonewall just because a conversation feels hard to have. I am willing to have the conversation. I am willing to help you articulate. But if you are just not willing to have the conversation or have my help in articulating, then you are not just not willing at this time. I have to accept it."
5) Mix and match the above? Something else that I cannot think of right now? :confused:

I don't know if my POV helps you. Hang in there but do sort yourselves out.

GL!
Galagirl

Leedia 12-31-2013 01:13 AM

Thanks so much to you both! These are great views and I'll encourage him to read them. I don't think we can ever get past his unwillingness to participate in sex near or puppy piles with another guy, but hopefully we can come to a point where I am free to be involved with another man with his consent.

nycindie 12-31-2013 01:29 AM

I suggest you read poly books together and keep talking until your partner reaches a certain level of comfort with poly before you put yourself out there on OKC. I mean, why swould you even do that before he is ready? That would seem disrespectful to me, if I were him. It can (and should) take a lot more than a few convdrsations to open up a mono relationship. Go slowly, and with compassion and empathy or you might find yourself with more drama and pain than you ever thought you would experience in your relationship.

Emm 12-31-2013 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leedia (Post 256285)
Long story short, I'm bi, he's not, almost to a phobic degree...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leedia (Post 256303)
I don't think we can ever get past his unwillingness to participate in sex near or puppy piles with another guy...

If he's not bi, then why is the idea of him being involved in any kind of sexual activity with another man even on the table? Poly doesn't necessarily—or even normally (whatever that may be)— involve group sex. Removing the requirement from the equation sounds like it could simplify your situation enormously.

Leedia 12-31-2013 03:07 AM

It was definitely off the table for him to touch another man at all, I knew that from the start. What I learned recently was his aversion to even being in the same room in an intimate enviornment including us and another guy. We talked about that and I'm willing to work around it. The group sex is just something ill have to put aside for now. I guess I had mistakenly thought that he would feel better with the idea of me and another man if he were at least around. But in speaking with him more he doesn't want me wih a guy in our house, his house, didnt want it to happen at all which bothers me because I'd be sharing him with someone who had my same equipment. Why shouldn't he?

graviton 12-31-2013 03:34 AM

I know this may sound selfish but in order to reduce the chance of problems and drama in your life why not just utilize your bisexuality as a tool to help smooth over your transition into (poly)? I think men are inherently more territorial and possessive of their partners and spouses. If you like women why not just find one and keep men off the table for now? It may be a double standard but you are treading on thin ice and it may be worth your while and keep things simple if you stay away from men for now.

JaneQSmythe 12-31-2013 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graviton (Post 256312)
I know this may sound selfish but in order to reduce the chance of problems and drama in your life why not just utilize your bisexuality as a tool to help smooth over your transition into (poly)? I think men are inherently more territorial and possessive of their partners and spouses. If you like women why not just find one and keep men off the table for now? It may be a double standard but you are treading on thin ice and it may be worth your while and keep things simple if you stay away from men for now.


There have been a number of discussions of this here (I know, I have participated in a few of them). A tag search for OPP (One-Penis-Policy) should yield a LOT of opinions on the topic (some with a fair amount of vitriole - take your grain of salt before you dive in :p).

For me, I knew I was "poly" before I really understood that I was "bi" (or rather that bisexuality was a "thing" :rolleyes:).

For our first years together my husband was uncomfortable with the idea of me being more than "flirty friends" with men - which wasn't an issue for me for years and years and years. (I am not attracted to most men, it is a rare occurrence ... but that's a different post...but I am a mega-flirt :cool:). For almost two decades there was no need to address this in any meaningful way (a few sanctioned "exceptions" here and there but nothing important). Then I fell for someone...a guy (Dude).

The transition was inelegant - I screwed up. Long-held perspectives had to be dragged out and re-assessed to see whether the underlying feelings/assumptions had changed. Once the "habitual reactions" had been peeled away (and the initial transgressions/mistakes forgiven) it turns out that they HAD. Do I wish that we had re-addressed things before things came to a head? You bet. Do I think that most people will have a perspective shift on this topic given time? No idea.

*****

A few other thoughts with regards to the OP and the other posts -

1.) Probably a bad idea to be talking to guys on OKC before you and hubs have ironed out what the current boundaries are. You are already uncomfortable mentioning to him that you have been talking to this guy. Stop. The longer this goes on the worse it will be. Honesty is fundamental to any healthy relationship (poly or not). If you feel the need to "hide" something from your partner - something is off-kilter. Stop and figure it out. Now.

My personal recommendation. Stop communication with the other guy. ("Sorry, Dude. Something has come up and I can't continue talking to you right now. If it's possible in the future I might look you up again. But, if I don't, good luck and have a great life." Put the OKC profile on vacation, come absolutely clean with your guy and figure out what is actually feasible given everyone's needs/wants at the current time.

2.) Poly =/= Group sex. I think that a lot of people seem to tempt their partners into poly with visions of the possibility of erotic threesomes with "hot girl-on-girl" action. Don't get me wrong - personally, I am a fan. And, lucky for me, my two straight boys are not put off by other penises being present. But even for us (who share a house and a bed) the MFM/FMF threesome (or MFMF foursome!) is a rare occurrence (and special event!).

When you add more people to the mix the number of relationships multiplies (do a search for poly-math) but each dyad in the group needs the time/space to develop on it's own. We don't have relationships with configurations, we have relationships with individual people. One-on-one sex is a common way that dyads share intimacy and bond...just saying...

Gotta build your foundation before you start building a high-rise!

london 12-31-2013 07:03 AM

For many people, it's the sexist beliefs that fuel a OPP that they are loath to tolerate


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