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-   -   Having a bad night (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64607)

MissSadieD 11-23-2013 03:42 AM

Having a bad night
 
Ugh... Can't seem to shut my brain off tonight. Keep going back and forth over what I should do about the whole D-and-his-girlfriend situation.

He's given me veto power (unpopular, I know), and part of me wants to use it. Not so much because I'm jealous, although I have my moments, but because their relationship started as cheating. On the one-hand she isn't crazy or looking to take him away from his family like the last woman was, and I'm not worried about her showing up or making a scene (we aren't "out").

But on the other-hand I hate, hate, HATE the fact that it started as an affair, and that she's perfectly fine with him sneaking around and being disonest. It makes my skin crawl. I always thought that I would eventually meet anyone he was seeing, and that we could at least be friendly towards each other. There's no way that will ever happen with this woman.

This wasn't what he and I discussed when we started talking about opening our relationship, so now I'm stuck wondering if I should ask him to stop seeing her and find someone else so we can start fresh, or just going along with it (better the Devil you know...)

bookbug 11-23-2013 12:38 PM

This isn't a polyamory problem; this is a dishonesty problem - and if I am reading your post correctly, not the first

Here is how I tend to look at such things: cheating sucks ass, but the person you had the relationship with when the cheating began was your husband; it was he that broke your agreements; not the other woman. The other woman may have substandard ethics, but at that point you had no agreements with her. That said, because of the long term relationship with your husband - the one who actually broke your agreement - you are willing to work things out with him, and shift much of your anger and blame to the woman with whom you have no history or agreements.

Why should she bear more of the blame and anger than your husband? Because she is a stranger and you have nothing to lose by maintaining your anger toward her rather than the one who actually broke your agreement?

I can't answer your question for you. It is obvious you are angry, and rightfully so. I would say that regardless of what you do, this anger needs to be put to rest. I would suggest that perhaps you and your husband need some counseling.

And I have to ask this question: if your husband cheated before with this woman, what is to say he won't again if you veto their relationship? Is that a good reason not to? No, it is not. Posing the question is to point out that there are larger issues here: your husband's inability to stand by his agreements. This kind of behavior does not work in monogamy or polyamory.

Dana 11-24-2013 12:32 AM

similar story
 
Hi. Your story sounds all too familiar. I did not exercise veto power, but my husband and his girlfriend ended up breaking up in large part, due to the impact of their continued relationship on our marriage. The result is, that we are living in the same house, but communication has all but stopped. I don't know what the answer is, but when things begin with dishonesty, the foundation is unstable. If their relationship strips yours of potential, then I'd address it in a real way. In my opinion, an individual who is willing to be a part of a cheating dynamic, is not truly suited for poly.

GalaGirl 11-24-2013 08:49 PM

I'm sorry you struggle. Could relax a bit though. Do your own self care FIRST.

Then later? Could take it one thing at a time rather than trying to do all your heavy thinking at once. Because it is a lot, and each one needs other questions answered first. If you need help sorting, maybe you want to see a counselor.

  • Is staying here with them healthy for you?
  • Are you willing to rebuild trust with him so a marriage can continue? If not, what blocks your willing?
  • Are you able to rebuild trust with him so a marriage can continue? If not what blocks your able?
  • Are you willing to rebuild trust with him? So a healthy polyship can happen? If not, what blocks your willing?
  • Are you able to rebuild trust with him so a marriage can continue? So a healthy polyship can happen? If not what blocks your able?
  • Are you willing to rebuild trust with her? So a healthy polyship can happen? If not, what blocks your willing?
  • Are you able to rebuild trust with her so a marriage can continue? So a healthy polyship can happen? If not what blocks your able?
  • Are you willing to rebuild trust with (him and her?) So a healthy polyship can happen? If not, what blocks your willing?
  • Are you able to rebuild trust with (him and her) so a marriage can continue? So a healthy polyship can happen? If not what blocks your able?

  • Has he apologized and asked for forgiveness?
  • Has she apologized and asked for forgiveness?
  • Have (him + her) apologized and asked for forgiveness?
  • Have you forgiven?
  • How many strikes is this episode? First strike? Or 3 strikes you are out? People can have second chances, but people cannot have ENDLESS second chances if they are just sitting around talking blahdeblah and not actually making effort to change.
  • Is his character strong and his Word ultimately trustworthy? Is he willing/able to make actual effort to repair a mistake?
  • Is her character strong and his Word ultimately trustworthy? Is she willing/able to make actual effort to repair a mistake?
  • Is (him + her) together strong in character or do they bring out YUCK in each other? Are they willing/able to make actual effort to repair a mistake?

  • Has he asked for opportunity to make amends to return to right relationship with you?
  • Have you given that and listed what behaviors you want him to execute to make good?
  • Has he actually delivered? Have you actually let it go?
  • Has she asked for opportunity to make amends to return to right relationship with you?
  • Have you given that and listed what behaviors you want her to execute to make good?
  • Has she actually delivered? Have you actually let it go?
  • Have they as a couple asked for opportunity to make amends to return to right relationship with you?
  • Have you given that and listed what behaviors you want them as a couple to execute to make good?
  • Have they actually delivered? Have you actually let it go?

All those answers are needed in order to change the bigger picture from (a cheating thing) to (a poly thing.) And moving through each of those layers to arrive at a clean slate takes THOUGHT and TIME. What layer are you on? I cannot tell.

It's the polymath thing -- a larger polyship is made up of all the mini relationships inside it. And you got dinged in a LOT of mini relationship layers.

Right now you are in transitional space -- an (up in the air thing.) It's ok to feel unsure and weird and unsettled. Don't rush decision making just because it feels weird to be in Hang Time. But don't spend forever in Hang Time either -- avoiding having to decide what needs doing, the time to be doing it, and the time reviewing it to see if it was actually done or not so you can decide the Bigger Picture.

You can't live in Hang Time forever.
  • Figure out what needs to happen, do it, review and if all questions check out? Then you all can begin a polyship now with clean slates.
  • Or decide to try it on, and if you conclude at the end of that time that things fell short? HOW short?
    • Way off? Forgive but don't continue. Amends fell short. Instead let go and terminate in peace.
    • Super close? Extend the time limit and see if it arrives after all but just need a bit more time. It takes time for people to learn new skills and new ways of going.
  • Or if you know you want to terminate NOW, you don't even WANT to be working toward polyship with these people -- don't bother with making amends time! You already know it NOW that you will not forgive, and let it go. Don't postpone it and just drag out. Terminate NOW rather than later if you know in your heart you are just not willing and able and it's a hard limit. No amount of time will change that. Get YOU to the healing place faster.

Either way you pick -- you can be free of (up in the air) UGH.

If you choose to terminate? HOW you terminate could be
  • You ask him to honor a veto request. (He does or doesn't honor it.) You bow out or stay.
  • You don't ask him to honor a veto request. You bow out or stay.

Could stop getting hung up on the veto. I mean, you could certainly ASK since that is part of your agreements.

But in the end? It's still about your willingness and ability to participate in polyship with these people. Nobody can FORCE you. And you are totally within your rights to say "Nope. No thank you. I don't want to be in polyship with you two players because of the cheating start. Trust is too broken for this relationship model."

Then you can move on to thinking this other question out "I want to continue to participate in marriage with my spouse after an affair. Is trust too broken for that relationship model?"

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

Maybe that helps? I know this stuff is hard to FEEL, but what the options are here are clear. Take a time out to soothe your own feelings so you can evaluate your list of things with a cool head. Then decide what you have to decide. The rest is coloring in the outline picture with your group details.

Hang in there.
Galagirl

MissSadieD 11-25-2013 02:18 PM

Well last night everything came to a head.

I told him he had to stop seeing W, because I couldn't handle that it started with an affair. If this is the life he wants, that's fine, but I needed a clean slate. He said ok, and said he wanted to talk to her and explain things...

No. Absolutely not. I know it probably makes me a terrible person, and I'll catch hell from people here for saying it, but there was no way I was going to allow it. The look on his face and the tone of his voice almost made me snap. In that moment it felt like he was more concerned with hurting her feelings than mine. It was like finding out that he cheated all over again, and it broke my heart.

I sent her a text telling her it was over, and she responded by saying when it started she didn't know he wasn't single, which is BS (I read their messages on LL, she knew). Now he's mad. He wanted to let her down gently because she has low self-esteem etc. Funny, he didn't care to let me down gently when cheating (twice), even though I'd just had his baby and was diagnosed with PPD, and my body image and self-esteem were at an all-time low.

I don't know what's going to happen now. We've talked about therapy but he doesn't seem terribly interested...

In short I just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to read and comment. I know I've been on a bit of a rant about the whole thing, but this isn't something I'd be able talk to my friends or family about. Thank you!

westVan 11-25-2013 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissSadieD (Post 249669)
Well last night everything came to a head.

I sent her a text telling her it was over,

WOW. I can see your really angry but he should have been the one to contact her.
I personally hate veto but if it works for you two then ok, but him not being allowed to have a face-to-face/skype/ phone call ending conversation is really cruel .
Take a step back and have your husband end things gracefully in what ever way they need to have closure.

Natja 11-25-2013 04:12 PM

Yeah that was really low OP.

MissSadieD 11-25-2013 04:20 PM

They don't have the right to end things "gracefully", not when they started it they way they did. She should be thankful I didn't plaster the pictures she sent him all over the internet. I hope she feels like sh*t, and wouldn't feel the least bit sorry if she did something about it.

westVan 11-25-2013 04:29 PM

ok
 
You have the right to feel that way, no one will tell you that your anger is wrong, those are your feelings and how you handle them is up to you, I'd be pissed too.
But IMHO if you want him to be opened and honest , this will make him hide things from you in future.

MissSadieD 11-25-2013 04:33 PM

There is no future with him. This was his second chance and he blew it by doing the exact same thing he did the first time.

His actions make it clear that he doesn't want an open/poly relationship, he wants a license to screw around. He could have told me about her before they met, but he chose to sneak around and have his friends cover for him. He's a coward and a liar


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