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-   -   the crazy feelings people have. (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50582)

Flear 07-23-2013 09:43 PM

the crazy feelings people have.
 
i've never understood lots of things, ... jealousy for one, ... maybe that puts me at a disadvantage because i don't know what it's like, i don't know how hard it is for other people to deal with, i just don't know what the deal is.

i view it as one of the many things that "your responsible for how i feel, now you had better be doing the right things so that i can be happy"

isn't jealousy that fear that your partner may be finding something in another person that you don't have ? or that they may leave you for that other person ?

my whole life (adult life anyway), i've understood one thing, the importance of wanting the people i care about to be happy. if that's with me great, i get to be a close part of their happiness. if it's with someone else, great they still get to be happy.

i don't get it that people try to say "i love you, so i have to limit you and your happiness, and you better like it, or else i'll stop wanting to be with you"

monogamy for some, sure, but when you are expecting the other person to be monogamous to you, ... i can't separate that from "i'm going to control and restrict and limit your freedom and choices"

it seems so wrong to ask here of all places, a polyamorus site "why do people choose to be in relationships like this?"

doesn't it bother anyone that for you to be happy your telling the other person they can't be happy ?

i just don't get it, i never have.

---

the only loss i could say i feel is while i'm not comfortable telling other people "hey, check me out, even if your not comfortable with the idea" and that's been rather limiting. i'm sure there are lots of people that would have been great partners in my life were passed up because i'm not comfortable telling them to love me.

YouAreHere 07-23-2013 10:07 PM

I had a novelette written, but it all boiled down to this one sentence:

When something hurts, it is much easier to want to take the source of the pain away, rather than take the time to work through it.

I found it more valuable to do the work needed to get through my envy and insecurity (not that I'm done by a longshot), but I can understand the pain being too great for some.

Flear 07-23-2013 11:15 PM

yes it's easier to push away the source of the pain, ... but isn't the source of every pain we go through our own insecurities ??? ... how do you push that away and think "this is going to help me cope in life"

times i've had difficulties, i may point my fingers for a bit, then i realize "wait, hold on a sec. i'm either causing the issues, or i'm not doing something that is the cause of the issues", then i've gotta apologize and do what's needed ... change what i'm doing.

often this is easy as i when i realize what i was or wasn't doing that was getting to me i then also know exactly what i should or should not be doing to make everything better.

YouAreHere 07-24-2013 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flear (Post 216698)
yes it's easier to push away the source of the pain, ... but isn't the source of every pain we go through our own insecurities ??? ... how do you push that away and think "this is going to help me cope in life"

Many people do it. Many people don't like to cope with pain. I like to challenge myself, but damn, was the beginning of my relationship hard on me (and all of us). I can see where it'd be easier to give up, or, if you've been with the person and the relationship is opening up, easier to say, "I can't do this. Either you stop, or it's over." If you hurt enough, you may not be interested in getting through it to better cope with life later, instead choosing to avoid the trigger altogether (which, honestly, is still a valid response).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flear (Post 216698)
i may point my fingers for a bit, then i realize "wait, hold on a sec. i'm either causing the issues, or i'm not doing something that is the cause of the issues", then i've gotta apologize and do what's needed ... change what i'm doing.

often this is easy as i when i realize what i was or wasn't doing that was getting to me i then also know exactly what i should or should not be doing to make everything better.

I do get where you're coming from. Here's the analogy that popped into my head as I was driving home:

I go out for a run and my knee hurts.

The novice will find it easy to think, "People told me this was bad for my knees. My knees hurt. They were right. I shouldn't run. I was crazy to even do this." The novice may even have gone out and done everything wrong the first time, and actually caused their own injury through their lack of knowledge. But they don't know that they don't know. You know?

Now, from my personal experience (not dissing anyone with knee problems here), I know that I need the weight-bearing exercise to strengthen my knees. Going for a gentle run and moderating my stride, level of effort, etc. when I come back to running after an absence will get me through that initial discomfort.

But I have friends who run and help me through it. I have personal experience as well. And I've experienced the benefits of running and know that the work I put in will pay off.

The novice is flying blind. And, once hurt, they may not have any reason to want to continue, given what they know (very little) or have been taught ("it's bad").

GalaGirl 07-24-2013 12:27 AM

Quote:

"your responsible for how i feel, now you had better be doing the right things so that i can be happy"
This has less to do with jealousy, monogamy, or polyamory to me than with EMOTIONAL MATURITY.

Taking emotional responsibility for oneself and not shooshing it on to others with blameshifting tactics and so on... that's one of the stages of emotional maturity.

One stops saying things like "You make me feel____" and replaces it with "I feel _____." One assumes responsibility for their own emotional management.

A person can look grown up on the outside, but be in different places in each of the six maturities.

*shrug*

Galagirl

InfinitePossibility 07-24-2013 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flear (Post 216691)
i don't get it that people try to say "i love you, so i have to limit you and your happiness, and you better like it, or else i'll stop wanting to be with you"

monogamy for some, sure, but when you are expecting the other person to be monogamous to you, ... i can't separate that from "i'm going to control and restrict and limit your freedom and choices"

Thanks for posting this. :) I've been going over some of this stuff in my mind recently.

I suppose there are a couple of things. All relationships come with limits and I imagine that each of us have things that if our partner needed for their happiness, it would significantly change the relationship. For me, having a partner who needed a child to be happy - I wouldn't stop them having a child but I don't want to be closely involved in child rearing and so for them to have that, it would mean I would no longer want to be with them romantically. I would still be friends but not likely to spend much time with them because of the child/children.

There are other things that would utterly end things. If a partner of mine was to come to me, say they'd seen the light and were going to be training with Cesar Milan and then go on to set up a dog training business locally using those methods. I'd have to have a serious think about my ability to choose partners but it would be the end of the relationship. I would struggle to even be friends with somebody committing themselves to a path of causing suffering to the neighbourhood dogs.

For the moment, I want myself and my partner to be monogamous. Of course, my partner does not have to choose to be with me. I have spoken to him at length about this, told him that if he wishes poly relationships, I will absolutely support him and work with him so that we can shift our relationship back to friendship and he can find the romantic relationships he wishes. If that is what he wishes, we can be friends and he can find other partners. I have no wish to limit his freedom but I also have no wish to limit my own and so this is where we are.

I think that mostly my desire for monogamy just now comes down to empathy for others. When I read these boards and talk to friends about poly and think about my own experiences, what I think very often happens is that people enter into new sexual relationships without really considering the possible impact on the new people or on the loved ones of the new person. Very often, it seems to me, not everybody is on board in the rush to find new love. And of course, then people are hurt. I have no wish to be part of causing hurt to complete strangers and it seems to me like it's easiest to not do that that by being monogamous. That's also why I don't have affairs with married men - I don't want to cause that level of hurt to a complete stranger just so I can have more love in my life.

I don't want to 'work through' my empathy for others and get rid of it. I did do that at one time for a while and it made it hard for me to connect to people and I wasn't there for my friends and loved ones in the way I should have been.

So if this means that for the time being, I'm only up for monogamous relationships, so be it. For me, it isn't really about limiting my partners but about being as kind as possible (while under the obvious tension of living in a country that kills millions in illegal wars). Any partner I have must make their own choices about relationship styles and must change things between us as they need in order to be happy.

IP

GalaGirl 07-24-2013 01:45 PM

Quote:

i don't get it that people try to say "i love you, so i have to limit you and your happiness, and you better like it, or else i'll stop wanting to be with you"
That is about "control" rather than "normal limits."

Not every dating partner is going to be a runner. Not ever partner we love is going to want the same things all the time. When the things can come to compromise, it's liveable. When the things are in conflict and cannot exist at once, decisions have to be made, and it could be liveable. Or not.

If the opposing views are "I want to be monoamorous in a monoship" and "I want to be polyamorous in a polyship" then the only answer for those two people is "Ok. We just can't do it with EACH OTHER then. Limit of the Universe." The people want different things that cannot coexist and each has the right to want what they want for themselves.

Taking the attitude of "Feel what I want you to feel and do what I say or else I stop wanting you/I dump you?" That is controlling/manipulative and mean not loving. I'd say "Ok. Stop wanting me!" and I'd run for the hills. :eek: But I'm not afraid to be alone, I'm not in financial distress, I'm not being abused, etc.

But "I love you and I want to be with you. I want a monoship shape for my romances. You don't. It seems like an impasse for romantic love. We're better off letting romance go and sharing friendship instead." I could deal with -- and still want to be friends and spend time with this person.

The one above? Dude. Run for the hills! I would spend zero time with them.

Doesn't seem to be so much about monoamory or polyamory or the kinds of shapes relationships could come in. There's healthy happy monoships. There's healthy happy polyships. But there's also unhealthy ones of each.

So really it seems to be about "healthy people to be around vs unhealthy people" to be around to me.

Galagirl

Flear 07-24-2013 03:36 PM

compromise, ... why not just acceptance ?

for the things you have trouble accepting, work towards personal growth so you can accept it.

InfinitePossibility 07-24-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalaGirl (Post 216805)
But "I love you and I want to be with you. I want a monoship shape for my romances. You don't. It seems like an impasse for romantic love. We're better off letting romance go and sharing friendship instead." I could deal with -- and still want to be friends and spend time with this person.

So much agree, GG - you've said what I wanted much more eloquently than my blather. :)


Quote:

for the things you have trouble accepting, work towards personal growth so you can accept it.
This is fine if the things you have trouble accepting are things that you want to be able to accept.

There are loads and loads of things that I don't accept as being okay - I don't want to see those things as being okay. It really irritates me when people suggest that I should work to get over things I don't accept.

It does happen fairly regularly. I'm often questioned about my lack of desire to have children and encouraged to get over it, to just have one, to figure out that life is meaningless without children.

I don't go around asking that nobody else has children and I don't force my childlessness on partners. It's just people who want children or have children, are not likely to become partners of mine.

Flear 07-24-2013 05:38 PM

Infinite, ... the alternative is to walk away so you can be around what your comfortable with and the other person can continue to be themselves.


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