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-   -   I'm confused, and I need help (-.-). (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46570)

monopoly4376 05-09-2013 02:10 PM

I'm confused, and I need help (-.-).
 
I've posted at least once before, and while I might not have responded (can't recall), everyone was really nice, really helpful. Last night, I was at a complete loss, and then I realized that I could come here and probably get some answers.

A guy I've been dating a while asked me to be his wife, but he says that he wants a family in a "polyandry" type of way. Personally, I'm out of my realm with all the definitions, so I think it's easier for me to just think "polyamory". Well, he says that he's met this guy who is also poly, but he says that he wants me to be his wife regardless of this other guy. Only, he doesn't want to marry me. I've heard of poly groups at least having a marriage or two, so I kind of hoped that he'd marry me in some way, but he says that he doesn't even want to be common-law married to me, that he wants to avoid favoritism and not marry anyone. Now, he said he'd give me a ring, and I thought he also meant to marry-marry me, not just, well, not marry me legally or anything. I'd already agreed to be his wife in a poly family, so I'd feel like a fool for backing out now. It's just, I've been raised Catholic, and I'm going against my faith for this guy. Faith issues aside, I feel like I'm making a very big sacrifice. I just, I'm so confused. He says that I can "bring in" people, but he says that I shouldn't marry either. I feel so lost!! Plus, I have no idea when all this is going to be put into action, and I'm not sure that it's fair to ask me to put my life on hold like that.

So, that's the background info. What I'm wondering is if poly families do that at all, just don't marry anyone in the group, I mean. How do big poly groups handle the common-law rule, handle the law?

Natja 05-09-2013 04:16 PM

Yikes! I am a wee bit confused, is this the same bloke who you were with the last time you posted or someone new?

Polyandry, one woman with more than one husband basically.

I am wondering if this was how it was all dictated to you in a sort of 'I vill control your Liff' sort of way? In which case, I can see why you would be hacked off, since he doesn't seem to be allowing you any control in what you want, also he is dictating the kind of relationship configuration he wants, regardless of what you want.
It sounds like a man with one of those 'hotwife' fetishes, which is ok in itself, except, perhaps you don't want to be Mrs. Hotwife? Perhaps you would prefer to have all your sexual moments private without an audience to entertain?

You have said you are bisexual, what if you fall for a woman and not a man, would that spoil his ultimate plan for your future?

As for poly groups usually having a marriage or two, this is often because the Poly comes after the marriage, personally I am not in favour of legal marriage because I do believe it creates hierarchy and I would not want to enforce or create hierarchy by getting legally married (that is not to say I don't want a wedding and a commitment because I do, very much so, I would just rather not be legal).

But I am me and I am non traditional in so many ways so....what do you really want? Do you want all the bells and whistles that comes from being married? Taking your new husbands name and having things addressed to Mr&Mrs Smith? Is that a very strong desire? And if you get this desire, how will you feel if you do fall in love with husband 2, will you feel a bit guilty that you can't be called Mrs. Jones? (or you can but it will be a personal thing, not legal because you are still Mrs. Smith.
You can change your name legally to Mrs. Smith-Jones but then, what if that is an entirely different name from your children, would you feel bad about that?
Not being legally married and keeping your own names at least gives everyone the level playing field, Mr. Smith is not more important, socially, legally or religiously than Mr. Jones. If you had a (non legal) ceremony with Mr. Smith and another with Mr. Jones than there will never be a point where someone says 'Your real husband' and crushes the happiness of the other. Also, in most States there is no such thing as common law marriage and so, you cannot be accused of doing anything illegal. So, that is my take on it, I am sure others will have different opinions to myself too so....look at things from all sides and figure out what is truly important for you to be happy.

Good luck,
Natja

nycindie 05-09-2013 05:01 PM

Don't ever worry about looking foolish. You will be a bigger fool if you agree to something you don't understand or feel right about, than if you back out now. Many people put engagements on hold, that's really no big deal.

What you wrote about it is very confusing. "Be my wife but not really my wife." Or was it the second guy who said he doesn't want to marry you? If this is how you expressed what is happening, you must be just as confused as I am. Don't be embarrassed to ask for clarification.

And it sounds like he is asking you to be in a relationship with someone you don't even know! WTF!

Listen, poly relationships are no different than mono ones in the respect that they all require clear communication, respect, honesty, caring, affection, commitment, etc. There are just more relationships to manage. Don't think that you have to go along with stuff that doesn't sit well with you or offends you, just because you feel you don't know enough about how poly works. Whatever you do, protect yourself and DO NOT mix your money with his! If I were you, I would put everything on hold until you get clear and understand what the hell and how the hell his cockamamie ideas about a polyandrous tribe are supposed to work out for you both.

monopoly4376 05-09-2013 07:16 PM

Natja:
I'm on my phone typing this all out, so I'm sorry if something doesn't make sense.

It is the same guy, yes. I haven't meant anyone new.

Wait, one woman? Two men/women? Is that...(>.<). It sounds like he wants me to be the only woman, then. He's been saying that I can find someone else too, but... I so didn't want to be the only woman. Maybe he's getting the definitions wrong, or...maybe I'm extremely thick and he's been trying to tell me that I'm the only woman this whole time (last few days). Man. I really hope he's not thinking that I'm the only woman :/.

He hasn't been saying it in a "I want to control you" sort of way, but he's definitely been precisely mentioning what all he wants whenever I pose questions to him. I just keep getting the impression that he was no idea what he's doing. Well, that's true, he's never done this before and neither have I, but I rather wish he'd have had a more concrete plan when he asked me to be his wife and I said yes. (All he said was "be my wife in a poly family?", and I said yes without understanding that he didn't want to even take me to the courthouse.) oh, and I definitely hope anything sexual will be private (>.O).

Oh, so, it just usually happens that poly relationships happen after marriage? Oh. Well, if that's the case, then it kind of "technically" makes sense to not marry, like he wants. He's also been talking about taxes and stuff, and I'm getting the impression that he's politely telling me that I have no talent for taxes, jobs, and stuff like that. I'm trying not to be offended, but he's still living with his mother and is showing no signs of getting a job. So, if he wants poly, in my opinion, he's not wanting it that bad, which means that ... Well, it means that I have time to find someone to bring into the relationship, if I wanted to. Or I'll just be sitting on my hands for years :/.

All I want is... I just wanted to be married in the eyes of the law. I found a law book at the library the other day, and it was talking about common law and how sometimes it's not allowed in whatever state: all he told me when I told him what I'd found was "good job". As if I'd fetched a stick. I would be perfectly willing to go to the courthouse and not have the bells and whistles. But I do see you points, and I can understand what you're saying. As for my children, yeah, that's going to be even more to learn about, especially depending what state we live in.

Thank you so much for replying!!
-
Nycindie:
He wants me to be his non-legal and non-spiritual wife. He won't take me to a courthouse, and he won't set foot in a church. He says that marriage is more about the bond. Well, I see his point, but... But, well, he wants to give me a ring. I don't have the guts to keep asking him why he won't take me to the courthouse.

Ha, yeah, that's it. I don't know this other guy or if this guy is even okay with being with me. Wtf indeed!!

So, protect myself (I've already told him that I'm out with my kids if weird stuff goes down), don't have joint money accounts (that is a good idea; will do), and find out what's going on. Got it. Only...it's hard to find out because he can be persuasive sometimes. Still, I've been working hard at asking him loads of questions.

Thanks for everything!!

Natja 05-09-2013 07:39 PM

Ermm Monopoly, I think you should wait a fair while before you commit too much to his relationship, it seems a little bit immature at the moment and really lacking in meaningful communication.

You don't seem to feel very secure and confident in this relationship, that is a red flag for me and a good sign that you are not yet ready for all Poly will throw at you.

Hope this helps,
Natja
x

nancyfore 05-10-2013 04:30 AM

Shouldn't a job and not living with his mother come before marriage and poly??? Are you living with them too? and kids? Your out with your kids if anything weird goes down? It sounds like something weird is going down, and you have no clarification on anything...

EdmCouple 05-12-2013 11:32 PM

I am with Nancy on this one, something does not seem right.

pollyanna 05-12-2013 11:53 PM

i would also like to say don't 'betray' your faith for any human being.
Your spirit/faith is who you are.

GalaGirl 05-13-2013 12:20 AM

You have JUST been asked to consider a mono-poly arrangement less than a year ago and are not clear on all of that yet.

I think you would both benefit from figuring that out first.

What sort of open model are you after?

Have you done enough reading?

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/do...documents.html
http://www.serolynne.com/polyamory.htm
http://openingup.net/resources/free-...om-opening-up/
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
http://www.morethantwo.com/

Have a plan for coping with jealousy and poly hell?

You don't have that sorted yet and NOW he also asked you to consider marriage to him? And that offer is just as vague as his polyshipping proposal? What's the engagement supposed to serve? You being exclusive to him while he continues to see others? Is that something you want? You do not want to date others?

If he's proposing marriage, you are still NOT MARRIED. That's called the ENGAGEMENT period where you continue to talk and map out the future plan together. If his offer for building a future together sounds like flaky for you (and it does!) -- don't agree to anything life altering. Do NOT get legally wed. Have a nice long engagement. For years even.

Better a SUCCESSFUL long engagement where you examine your compatibility and come to find you are not compatible and end the engagement time without a wedding than a rushed engagement leading to an unhealthy incompatible marriage.

Keep your own finances separate for sure.

Quote:

So, that's the background info. What I'm wondering is if poly families do that at all, just don't marry anyone in the group, I mean. How do big poly groups handle the common-law rule, handle the law?
I am legally wed to my spouse. We expect genetic monogamy. We are not having children with other people. Those are our agreements. ( I think you are just asking about marriage and custody laws and not asking also about joint debts/assets/properties, right? That could be a novel!)

Any other players would have to be ok with that. Anyone wanting babies or legal marriage -- ain't getting it here. It doesn't mean I love them "less" -- it means at my age I am done making babies. I don't want any more. And since it is not legal here to have more than one spouse, I already have the spouse I have? I'm not divorcing him to marry another. Current limit of the law.

Again -- that's all stuff you sort out in the dating time to see if you and dating partner are compatible or not. Date for a while. That is what dating is FOR. Get to know the person.

What's the rush toward marriage and greater committments made too soon? :confused:

You could be more assertive in co-creating the plan. And if he's not taking your wants, needs, and limits on board? He's just into what cookies HE gets? Could drop him and seek better partner -- one that has concern for YOU too. Not just himself.

It sounds weird to me too. Be careful. :(

Galagirl

nycindie 05-13-2013 12:09 PM

:confused: How old are you and how much experience do you have in relationships?

As I see it, your biggest problem here is communication. Neither one of you knows what the other wants and you are too timid to ask for clarification. His ideas come across as weird, but that could be due to your utter confusion. Have you ever read anything about polyamory? Most of all, DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT? DO YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD MAKE YOU FEEL HAPPY AND SATISFIED IN RELATIONSHIPS? HAVE YOU ESTABLISHED YOUR OWN PERSONAL BOUNDARIES OF WHAT YOU WILL AND WILL NOT ACCEPT?

Sorry for shouting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monopoly4376 (Post 202878)
. . . he says that he wants a family in a "polyandry" type of way . . . he says that he's met this guy who is also poly, but he says that he wants me to be his wife regardless of this other guy.

Are you saying he met a poly guy he wants to be in relationship with himself, or whom he wants you to be with? It sounds like he wants to basically choose other people to have sex with you, and that's just all kinds of fucked-up because it's your body and only you should choose who to have sex with. Like, he met this guy and says there's a guy he knows who is supposed to be your second boyfriend or a sex partner?

ASK HIM WHAT HE MEANS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monopoly4376 (Post 202878)
Only, he doesn't want to marry me. I've heard of poly groups at least having a marriage or two, so I kind of hoped that he'd marry me in some way, but he says that he doesn't even want to be common-law married to me, that he wants to avoid favoritism and not marry anyone. Now, he said he'd give me a ring, and I thought he also meant to marry-marry me, not just, well, not marry me legally or anything.

If you want to be legally married to someone and he will never do that, then you have incompatible goals. But I think it is glaring that he tells you his position on things and yet you "kind of hoped" he would give you what you really want in some way. Honey, he won't. AND you shouldn't be so wishy-washy! "Kind of hoped" - what is your position, your stance, your needs, your desires? Figure out what you want, state it, and if he can't meet that, MOVE ON. You haven't known him very long (less than a year, correct?), he lives with his mom and doesn't work, and wants to dictate you his terms for relationships without considering yours. Believe me, it sounds like no great loss if you walk away from this. Does he expect you to live with him and his mother??? Don't get into a long-term commitment with someone you hardly know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monopoly4376 (Post 202878)
I'd already agreed to be his wife in a poly family, so I'd feel like a fool for backing out now . . . I feel like I'm making a very big sacrifice.

So, if you agreed to swim across the ocean and then realized you couldn't survive, you would still have to do it to avoid looking foolish? Yes, you are making a big sacrifice if you jump into this without fully knowing what you're getting into.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monopoly4376 (Post 202878)
I just, I'm so confused. He says that I can "bring in" people, but he says that I shouldn't marry either. I feel so lost!! Plus, I have no idea when all this is going to be put into action, and I'm not sure that it's fair to ask me to put my life on hold like that.

Again, you are not being proactive enough in finding out what/when/how he wants to do this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monopoly4376 (Post 202878)
So, that's the background info. What I'm wondering is if poly families do that at all, just don't marry anyone in the group, I mean. How do big poly groups handle the common-law rule, handle the law?

Every case is different. Some poly "groups" are comprised of several legally married pairs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monopoly4376 (Post 202920)
Wait, one woman? Two men/women? Is that...(>.<). It sounds like he wants me to be the only woman, then. He's been saying that I can find someone else too, but... I so didn't want to be the only woman. Maybe he's getting the definitions wrong, or...maybe I'm extremely thick and he's been trying to tell me that I'm the only woman this whole time (last few days). Man. I really hope he's not thinking that I'm the only woman :/.

Say what? Now YOU are confusing. What do you mean by this? Do you think that all poly relationships are done in groups where everyone is all having sex with each other and involved with everybody else? That is not the case at all!!! You can have several separate relationships. You can be with other men or women without your current boyfriend being involved at all.

YOU HAVE TO SPEAK UP TO HIM ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT. WHY LEAVE IT ALL TO HIMTO DECIDE?

Quote:

Originally Posted by monopoly4376 (Post 202920)
I don't have the guts to keep asking him why he won't take me to the courthouse.

Then get the guts. How do you think you can spend a life with someone you can't talk to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by monopoly4376 (Post 202920)
Ha, yeah, that's it. I don't know this other guy or if this guy is even okay with being with me. Wtf indeed!! . . . it's hard to find out because he can be persuasive sometimes.

Then why are you even considering what he's proposing? Where is your sense of self and ability to assert what you want in order to be happy?

Read the following quotes again and again. I totally agree with them. There seems to be a lot of immaturity and insecurity going on here.:

Quote:

Originally Posted by nancyfore (Post 202991)
Shouldn't a job and not living with his mother come before marriage and poly???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natja (Post 202923)
Ermm Monopoly, I think you should wait a fair while before you commit too much to his relationship, it seems a little bit immature at the moment and really lacking in meaningful communication.

You don't seem to feel very secure and confident in this relationship, that is a red flag for me and a good sign that you are not yet ready for all Poly will throw at you.



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