Polyamory.com Forum

Polyamory.com Forum (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/index.php)
-   General Poly Discussions (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Question on my mind lately... (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4594)

FlameKat 01-02-2011 12:44 AM

Question on my mind lately...
 
Open & Honest communication is the key to happy relationships... no matter how silly, awkward, or hard, no matter the heartbreak... Truth, Love, Flexibility and Respect.

Personal Integrity is rare, and when you find it, you need to stay true to it...

but at what cost? What price is too high a price to pay to keep your integrity? And can you be happy knowing you have compromised your integrity, or anything of yourself that is a fundamental part of you?

How do we find the answers to these questions?

Edit: HAPPY, LONG-TERM relationships...

Olderwoman 01-02-2011 12:49 AM

I'm not sure I understand the question. :D

People who find it hard to be honest, are probably people who are not proud about who they are.

The solution is to work on being a better person.:p

FlameKat 01-02-2011 12:58 AM

LOL no that's not what I was asking - in fact is in the point of the question...

What price is acceptable to pay to keep your own integrity as a whole person...

Price - other's pain, disruption, chaos

my own pain is perfectly acceptable in my quest to be true to myself... causing pain to others in the process is not... however I can see that it is either necessary or unexpected fallout (their own issues cropping up etc)... my question is more a philosophical one - at what point do you draw the line? do you draw the line, is your integrity so important that no price is too high?

oasis777 01-02-2011 01:04 AM

It is one of the keys, but just how many times is anyone ever completely honest with their partner? I know that on my part, afraid of being hurt is the reason that my deepest feelings are not shared, and it is only logical to assume that that reason would be number one on the list for most others as well.

FlameKat 01-02-2011 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oasis777 (Post 57708)
It is one of the keys, but just how many times is anyone ever completely honest with their partner? I know that on my part, afraid of being hurt is the reason that my deepest feelings are not shared, and it is only logical to assume that that reason would be number one on the list for most others as well.

This is why the question is about personal integrity - if you are hiding deep feelings from your partner for fear of hurt, yours or theirs... you are not being authentic, genuine or being honest... where is the integrity in that?

Olderwoman 01-02-2011 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlameKat (Post 57707)
LOL no that's not what I was asking - in fact is in the point of the question...

What price is acceptable to pay to keep your own integrity as a whole person...

Price - other's pain, disruption, chaos

my own pain is perfectly acceptable in my quest to be true to myself... causing pain to others in the process is not... however I can see that it is either necessary or unexpected fallout (their own issues cropping up etc)... my question is more a philosophical one - at what point do you draw the line? do you draw the line, is your integrity so important that no price is too high?



>>"What price is acceptable to pay to keep your own integrity as a whole person."<<

I don't know how to answer this question. BUT

If you can be true to yourself, being true and honest about who you are and what you want --on a daily basis --in as kindly a way as possible, and this still seems to hurt someone else, it is probably because they want you to be something else or they expect something else of you.

It is not about "integrity." It is about being honest. You don't have to build a cause around yourself and who you are, or do battle to maintain your integrity. (Perhaps sometimes we think we do, but that is a defensive position and any defensive position sets you in opposition to another.)

The one thing I want to say is that you should not begin a practice of lying in an attempt to keep from hurting someone else. That practice can grow into a life of deceit. Be kind, be honest. Let people respond to that in the way they must. In any case, you are in the clear.

FlameKat 01-02-2011 02:00 AM

For me personally... keeping my integrity IS a battle...

I am still healing from an abusive marriage... my integrity in that marriage was compromised, for my own safety, for my children, simply to not be hurt on any given day... it has become a pattern for me to put myself aside, to not own my own feelings, to allow who I am to be swept aside for the benefit of others...

This is not at all a good thing... I am struggling with the balance of finding myself and knowing myself, while watching the pain those discoveries are giving my loved ones...

It has nothing to do with being honest, open or communicating - while it also does, my discoveries have to be communicated openly and honestly in order for them to be known... it is the effects that communication has...

I need my partner to love me completely, wholly...

Integrity: Wholeness, Completeness

To do that he needs to know all of me, completely and honestly. I need to know all of me, so therefore need to keep exploring myself. My personal integrity is key to that goal... however, I struggle with both his pain and my own...

I am not willing to give up myself, I am also not willing to hurt him, I am also not willing to compromise our relationship... so back to the question about prices :p

OneUncagedBird 01-02-2011 02:01 AM

honesty
 
I look at honesty and integrity as fundamental in a long term relationship. It allows me to sleep at night and gives the other person the right to make true, informed decisions about our relationship and whether or not they are up to whatever is going on. It gives a measure of trust in a relationship that cannot be replaced. And, even if it hurts for the moment it will be worth it in the end cuz the opposite only brings a dissolution of love and a destruction of healthy comfort and joy in a relationship.

Olderwoman 01-02-2011 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlameKat (Post 57726)
For me personally... keeping my integrity IS a battle...

>>To do that he needs to know all of me, completely and honestly. I need to know all of me, so therefore need to keep exploring myself. My personal integrity is key to that goal... however, I struggle with both his pain and my own... :p<<

I hate to be the bringer of bad news but your expectations are impossible.

Nobody can know "all of you completely and honestly."

Being a woman myself I do understand the desire to be understood. I have always wanted to be "understood" completely. But that is just not possible. The reason is, that we don't even understand ourselves.

Also, if you are not willing to be completely honest,(for fear of hurting him) the chances of him (or anyone) knowing you completely are even more impossible.

He (your significant other) is not superman, nor is he a mindreader, nor is he an all knowing deity. He cannot know you completely.

I would say, don't set unrealistic goals for your relationship. You will never get there. Just have faith and love.

FlameKat 01-02-2011 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olderwoman (Post 57733)
I hate to be the bringer of bad news but your expectations are impossible.

Nobody can know "all of you completely and honestly."

Being a woman myself I do understand the desire to be understood. I have always wanted to be "understood" completely. But that is just not possible. The reason is, that we don't even understand ourselves.

Also, if you are not willing to be completely honest,(for fear of hurting him) the chances of him (or anyone) knowing you completely are even more impossible.

He (your significant other) is not superman, nor is he a mindreader, nor is he an all knowing deity. He cannot know you completely.

Olderwoman

your posts today take on a very superior air.

I did not say at all that I expect him to know me completely and honestly... I said I need him to... and that is where MY exploration of myself comes in.. so I may know myself in order for him to know me... It is not a thing to pull out of a bag and hand to him... it is a journey we undertake together day by day for the rest of our lives.

I am completely honest with him - try reading my other thread so you know what you are talking about... And do not even try to assume how much or how deeply my partner is capable of knowing me... he knows me better than I know myself. He sees me in ways I have yet to discover, just as I am aware of things about me he has yet to discover... and this goes both ways.

my question was dealing specifically with... at what point would anyone else out there draw the line, or even if they would...

at what point would you say to your partner "I can no longer be completely honest with you because it is hurting you too much?" For me... I don't know if I could even do such a thing...

Should I compromise who I am in order to not hurt him further... (this is unlikely to work in the long run - shoving part of myself away for the benefit of another will very likely breed resentment)Should we push through and push through... knowing we risk the possibility that maybe we can't work through it and will end up hurting each other irrepairably... or should we just not take the risk at all?

I already have the answer to these questions for myself and my partner - it is something we decide based on our motivations... I was looking for other opinions, other experiences... who knows - I might learn something, maybe there is another option...

Coming from the angle that I would lie, or otherwise be dishonest or disingenuous is counterproductive to the conversation wanted.


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:45 AM.