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-   -   So very torn (long post warning!) (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44285)

garhdo 04-07-2013 03:58 AM

So very torn (long post warning!)
Right I'm just going to type the full history of everything and my current feelings as its been a long time since I've posted anything here and a lot has changed.


Dramatis personae:
*Mrs - my partner of ten years.
*J - currently ex-girlfriend.
*B - J's fiance and also my ex.
*A - my metamour through Mrs.
*S - my ex-metamour through J.

Over the course of our relationship Me and Mrs have often discussed ideas such as swinging and polyamoury, mainly through the influence of television documentaries. Eventually in November 2011 we decided that instead of merely talking about things we should explore it if it both interested us. As a result we set up a profile on a swinging website and soon began talking to people.

The first couple we messaged we realised that we knew. B had been at university with me and he had met his girlfriend J not long after I had dropped out to start my family. We arranged to meet them as our first swing, but we both became drawn to them in more ways, me I think more than Mrs. We were also their first swing and I later learned that J thought of us as potentially something more not long after that.

We all continued to see each other on a semi regular basis, sometimes meeting as a foursome, sometimes a threesome or a swap. Our meets would not always be sexual, but between me and J they often were: we found we had a lot of passion together, perhaps because of NRE I don't know. B had a much lower sex drive than the rest of us and would not play as much. My meets with him tended not to be sexual - mainly due to my nervousness with bi play due to a prior bad experience. I even stayed with B and J one night where after the sexual play ended me and J spent a lot longer talking and flirting. We later learned B had been awake but don't know if he had overheard. The next morning me and J did something stupid by having intercourse without a condom. I have performance issues with condoms which is one reason why it happened, but basically we just got carried away. However she is not on any other contraception. As a result she needed to take the morning after pill, arousing B's suspicions when her period came early. Mrs found out but B still doesn't know (we think, he watched us finish but I don't think he noticed, and he has never commented). Needless to say Mrs was not happy but some months passed and we still continued as we had. We were for all intents and purposes exclusive for most of this time apart from one man that Mrs was also seeing, until another couple entered the scene. We all chatted to them and some meets were arranged but that all fell apart for all of us. Eventually we soon developed an exclusive quad.

The next major development came when an overnight swap was arranged. Me and J are very in touch emotionally and we both are very open and honest with our feelings. I had already told J that she meant a lot to me, and she had responded in kind. She said me and Mrs reminded her of a couple she had engaged in a short-term poly relationship with while studying abroad in the USA. That relationship had come to a close as she had left the country but she talks of the whole experience fondly and both Mrs and I had discussed it with her before. The night of the swap I told J that I thought I loved her, and she said it back before we made love. It was a good night but, unsure how to tell Mrs (who I was sure would not react well) I hid this fact for a week, instead encouraging her blossoming feelings for B and J. However Mrs can read me like a book at all times and I am ashamed to say that I lied to her (in vain) about what had been said. She found out and it caused a huge rift in the burgeoning quad. Me and J had to work to earn back her trust but we all three agreed on our feelings for each other in the end.

B decided instead that he didn't think of us in the same way. He took a step back from the relationship, deciding he wanted nothing at first, then a FWB style set up. He has admitted that he cares about us but me and Mrs both are aware that certain things make him uncomfortable, such as me and J having sex. I thought things were on the mend when we had another foursome, but again that led to complications. B started focusing a lot more on swinging, arranging meets with new people and couples. In this time Mrs found A, who was recommended in our direction by B but who J made B swear off on once she realised Mrs was developing feelings for him. B and J also met S, who is married but swinging discreetly, and who J has also developed feelings for. S seems to think a lot of them both as well. It felt to me and Mrs during this time that B was trying to faze us out, as well as trying to prevent our relationship with J. They had a few other meets and it seemed that B could handle the no-strings idea easier than he could the emotional demands of the quad. S did chat to Mrs, but she said no, aware of J's feelings, yet when she told J J seemed to get angry at Mrs rather than S. S acted like he wasn't being serious however. I was also very jealous myself during this whole situation as I now barely saw j, she saw S for short periods but more often, and Mrs had A while I felt left out in the cold.

This led to Mrs and A getting very close. I have been uncomfortable watching her with other men in the past and so was absent for most of their meets. I soon learned that they were having intercourse without condoms, something against our rules since my indiscretion with J. We argued about it greatly and I almost prevented her from seeing A in anger, but we worked through it. I know she liked the closeness that the fluid-bonding with A gave her and despite some initial misgivings I am happy for them to continue. They have since gotten very close and admitted their feelings for each other. A also has a girlfriend in the States where he was living, K, and she is well aware of their situation and actually seems happier with their relationship than if A was swinging.

B and J soon had some difficulties which caused them both to completely reassess their thinking on the whole thing. The took their profile down form the swinging site. J said she was done with swinging, but wanted to continue to see the people she has feelings for, namely me, Mrs and S. B however still wants to continue swinging and me and Mrs were left very unsure of where we stood with him, as a result we did not see him alone again. We met with J, but did nothing sexual, and spent the whole evening talking about our relationship, something we would be unable to do with B present. J also had a sexual meet with someone from her workplace, which I was unhappy about but didn't tell her so. However it was apparently not a good experience, despite B being fine with it.

This was about the point that I started coming to this site seeking advice, and I found some, which I was going to try to approach B and J with. Me, J and Mrs had a chat on MSN. Mrs had been growing jealous of the fact that mine and J's relationship was seeming to grow and the expense of her and J's. We discussed it that night, and J revealed that she had felt pressured somewhat into a relationship with Mrs in order to have a relationship with me, but that she did care for Mrs and wanted to explore their relationship again. Obviously this upset everyone involved, but I thought everything had resolved.

However the very next night everything changed.

B decided that he didn't want to have anything more to do with us. J, as his fiancée, went with his wishes and stopped seeing us as well, however my own persistence meant that she stayed in contact with me. B was outright ignoring us. I learned that she still wanted to see us, at least as friends if not more as she still cared about us. B however didn't feel that way and probably hadn't for a while. In fact their own relationship had suffered as J, being poly, has put a lot of effort into her other connections and so is focusing on him now, although B had given her a sort of “it's them or me” ultimatum to achieve this. They stopped swinging and apparently were not seeing or talking to any of their old partners, including S. I learned however that for a while they had been seeing S socially, and may still be. Mrs however seemed to bear a brunt of B's accusations as to why things could not continue, claiming her emotional fragility and jealousy made things awkward. Yes certain things during our encounters had made her uncomfortable, hence why we had started to swap during meetings rather than all be together, to reduce these instances, but Mrs was not the only guilty of these reactions as B also had them himself.

Mrs and A continued to develop their relationship and I tried to move on with my feelings, getting over J as it were. I had lost my feelings for B when everything happened, feeling betrayed and hurt instead. Mrs was as well, but as her feelings developed for A I thought she was putting it behind her. However she was jealous and hurt that J continued to talk to me and not her. I even eventually got some discussion out of B a few months down the line, and learned he was willing to be friendly again. However I find that while I want a friendship with J due to our closeness before, I am less interested in one with him. I was due to be his best man at his and J's wedding and now I barely want to be in the same room as him, let alone talk to him (although I would still like to go to their wedding, go figure).

garhdo 04-07-2013 03:59 AM

Last week me and J got our first chance to see each other in six months, as B agreed that she could see me. He doesn't trust me, perhaps because mine and J's relationship was more passionate than theirs, and so was very hesitant for a long time time and it took assurances that nothing would happen for him to allow us to meet alone. We had met previously with him being present, as I had gone to see J's amatuer burlesque group (which Mrs has recently joined) perform twice. However at the first performance I left the venue before and after the show to avoid B, and at the second we barely exchanged two words. Over Msn and texts J has been giving mixed signals to me, almost as though she still wants a relationship with me, but then catches what she is saying. Me and B had even gone to see Wreck-It Ralph at the cinema together, yet we still exchanged little more than common courtesies.

Anyway we met up and had a lovely day together. A nice lunch and some window shopping, albeit with some deep conversation. I learned that her and B still had a lot of tension in their relationship, and that their sex life was almost non-existent. She revealed that she still has romantic feelings for me, and while she cares for Mrs due to their similarities in attitude she doesn't want a relationship with her. Whether she wants one with me is unclear, but doubtful. However I am now at a point where I can be happy and move on, I think. Yes I still have feelings for her but I think I could stay friends and nothing more.

However I then learned that the next day she has broached to B that she wants to be poly. She says the decision to bring this up had nothing to do with me (skeptical) and that it caused considerable tension. She seems upset and at the minute I have no idea how that situation has resolved for her. B has gone back to ignoring me and she is quiet too. At a social event earlier tonight however J, B, A and Mrs were all in attendance, although Mrs says that B was ignoring her, J was distant from B and she was staring at Mrs and A. Mrs also noticed that S may have been there and J was very comfortable with him, more so than with B. In fact as she kissed 'S' goodbye it seemed to make B VERY tense. Mrs has revealed that she still has feelings for B and J, and wishes she didn't as she knows that neither of them feel the same.

As for myself I am so very confused. On one hand I would like to explore a friendship with J, yet I am perhaps a little too comfortable and flirty with her (although I do flirt a lot with all my other friends too). On the other if there is a chance for a relationship with her I believe that I will take it, although I also don't wish to hurt Mrs further. I am also of the opinion that her relationship with B is bad for J. I feel it is controlling and borderline manipulative on his part and that she is not as happy as she appears, yet she insists that she loves him dearly and she is excited for their coming nuptials. If it wasn't for the fact it would probably hurt me a lot more in the long run I think I would cut them both out, yet my friendship and feelings for J stop me and I don't want that option to be more than a final resort.

If you have read all this, and I appreciate the effort I really do, then I would welcome any insights you can offer.

garhdo 04-07-2013 01:11 PM

This mornings developments.
So Mrs has been in touch with J this morning (B is still ignoring us both). Apparently it was S there last night, and J does still have feelings for him, and he knows this but doesn't believe that she is really in love with him. B is also unaware of this. She said that while she was happier being poly she has abandoned pursuing it with B as all it does is cause arguments between them both, which she doesn't want. If anything all this has me slightly more confused. I feel angry that she has to be untrue to herself in order to preserve her relationship with B as he won't let her be who she is. I am angry that I have had to fight for 6 months to see her when she is obviously still seeing S. I am frustrated that I don't know whether there is any chance of a relationship between us - most likely not but without a definite answer there is no closure.

Should I pursue a friendship with her? Should I cut them out, as much as it would hurt? Should I try to find a new partner?

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