Stormy Attitude

MariusdeRomanus

MariusdeRomanus

New member
I'm here again with another Thunder-related issue. I'm not exactly at my wit's end, as this is something that we've known about from just being friends, but I'm looking for some advice, nonetheless.

Thunder is a very secretive person. When he first started a poly relationship with Ariel and Vegeta, he didn't want anyone else to know about it. When they started to consider poly with Company and me, their relationship was a shock to me. I'd had no idea whatsoever, not even the slightest tinge of suspicion, and they're my best friends. That kind of secretive.

He's also a very moody person on occasion. He has a tendency to get angry/upset with something or someone, but to not say anything about it until after he's all right again, or not at all, and claim it was just something stupid. While he's in his mood, everyone can ask what's wrong or why until they're blue in the face, and he'll simply say "Nothing," or "I'm fine," and go on with his business.

Everyone is attempting clear and concise communication, as it helps us to help ourselves and make a very wholesome relationship. Thunder insists that he doesn't want to "talk about his feelings." I'm not sure how to help him get better about communicating with us. I'd like it if there was less of him saying, "Nothing," and, "I'm fine." But I'm not sure that he can jibe with that solution. I want to find a way for him to get better at it with us that we both can flow with.

Any advice is appreciated!
 
That's really hard to solve. I mean, I can understand not wanting to talk about something when being upset. I am the same way. But he can at least work towards stating that he has something on his mind, just needs some time to sort through it, and will be open to discussing it if it becomes necessary. Then, later on, he may have sorted it out and realized it didn't need to be discussed, because it was truly a reflection of self (which is pretty much what our emotional reactions are). Our negative emotions are normally triggered by a lack of communication, or an engrained memory linked to that emotion, both of which can be discussed.

Ever think about telling him that all relationships but, especially, ones of this nature must have clear, transparent, and honest communication to survive, and you are interested in working towards survival?
 
It sounds like there may be some underlying issues that he hasn't addressed yet.

As far as saying, "Nothing," and "I'm fine," my husband does this and he truly doesn't think there is a problem. He will be grumpy, snippy, grouchy and non-communicative, and will still say everything is fine. To him, in that moment, he doesn't even realize how he is presenting himself to everyone else. There will be any number of causes, from migraines, to lack of sleep, or stress, and each time it's "Everything's fine"! It takes 20 questions to even get him to admit that he has a migraine. UUUGH!!!

It could very well be that he hasn't thought enough about why he is acting a certain way, or even recognized that what he is doing. Tell him what he is doing (be specific and stick to the facts, no speculation), and suggest he consider what might be causing it, then tell him you will discuss it later. Walk away. Then come back a few hours later to talk. If nothing else, it will get him thinking.
 
MariusdeRomanus said:
He's also a moody person. He has a tendency towards getting angry/upset with something or someone, but not saying anything about it until after he's all right again, or not at all, and claiming it was just something stupid. While he's in his mood, everyone can ask what's wrong or why until they're blue in the face, and he'll simply say "Nothing," or "I'm fine," and go on with his business.
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Since you didn't give details, all I can tell you is that there are in fact many different communication styles. While you may not understand what he is doing, this may be what he has to do.

Polyamory is so concerned with being open, honest and precise, that it can segregate the the introspective and thoughtful. It might take time, it might take processing, but do not overthink how he processes communication and hardship, as long as he comes out the other end okay.

In the end, it's the result that matters, not the method. If you aren't satisfied with that, you have to find a place in the middle to meet.

Everyone is attempting clear communication, as it helps us to help ourselves and make a very wholesome relationship. Thunder insists that he doesn't want to talk about his feelings. I'm not sure how to help him get better about communicating with us. I'd like it if there was less of saying "Nothing" and "I'm fine," but I'm not sure that he can jibe with that solution. I want to find a way for him to get better at it with us that we both can flow with.
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In the end, if you can't accept this, and possibly compromise by meeting in the middle, then you will always have problems.

Here is a brief conceptual matrix of communication styles:

http://www.cedanet.com/meta/communication_styles.htm

Might help. As an introspective driver, being asked to talk constantly about my feelings, especially in the heat of the moment, might be annoying.
 
Thanks for the advice! :) I shared it with Thunder and the rest, and we're talking about it a bit.

Ariakas, you're exactly right. I'm looking for an "in the middle" compromise that makes everybody comfortable. I'm most concerned with how Thunder's behavior and attitude while he's upset tends to upset everyone else, and is in general, hurtful. If you would like a more specific incident to analyze, the latest one is a really good example.

Ariel, Vegeta, Company, and I were all taking a shower together and in general fooling around, while Thunder and Andulvar were driving around and hanging out. Thunder was fine in the morning, but when he came back home, he was most definitely not fine. When he's moody, he doesn't look at anyone, doesn't really respond to anyone beyond "Nothing," and "I'm fine." He begins cleaning the place up furiously, and proceeds to sulk in his room with the door closed-- another occurrence saved only for his moods.

I took a walk to the grocery store with Ariel and Vegeta, and on the way back, Ariel decided that we would get Subway for our dinner, and later make dinner for Company and Thunder. We didn't call or tell Thunder this, who was at home being moody, or Company, who went to Andulvar's place. Company didn't really care, and Thunder didn't show anything but continued moodiness, keeping himself in his room. This was fine by most of us, even though we wanted him to explain that he wanted alone time instead of acting that way to get it.

Last night, everyone went to a play. On the way there, Thunder and I began talking (he was in a much better mood then) and he began explaining what had been wrong with him. A lot of it was still jumbled, but I was just happy that he could talk about it at all. I told him that the way he acts when he's upset makes everyone unhappy and it's hurtful, and he proceeded to tell me that he knows, he's always known that. That it's "just the way he is."

That statement would be fine if we were still just friends. If we were just friends, I could go hang with someone else and not have to deal with it, because it wouldn't be my problem. But instead, I'm in a relationship with him. Being upset about something and needing time, I can hang with. Shoving people away like that, I can't.

SNeacail: That it's exactly! It kills me! What's wrong with guys that they have to do it that way? I don't understand! :mad:
 
MariusdeRomanus said:
That statement would be fine if we were still just friends. If we were just friends, I could go hang with someone else and not have to deal with it, because it wouldn't be my problem. But instead, I'm in a relationship with him. Being upset about something and needing time, I can hang with. Shoving people away like that, I can't.
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Meh, it sounds like you want him to be something he is not. Since you seem to be in touch with what is actually going on, why not just accept that this is how he deals with his shit? If he was "just a friend" you'd be ok with it? This is more about your issues than his. What about the other people? Is anyone else having problems with the way he deals with his moodiness? It comes down to what people say on here a lot: only YOU are in control over whether or not your needs are being met. As long as he treats everyone with basic respect, I fail to see why he should change his ways if it works for him. You CAN "go hang with someone else" until he comes out of his mood. You have four other people with whom to do so.
 
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(I am typing this from a cell phone, which we will all likely come to regret presently.)

Thunder's attitude is a problem that concerns everyone. it concerns us in the sense that we have all sat him down, both one on one and all together many, many times. To us, it's a concern over expectations being met. He has needs that aren't being met, which makes him very unhappy. His needs aren't being met because if they are ever communicated, it's always done too little and too late, when there's nothing anyone can do about it.

The other day, he wanted attention from everyone, and when we tried to pay him attention, because we had deduced that such was his need on our own, he pushed us away. Now personally, that makes me angry, and that's my own conflict to overcome. But no one else is willing to put up with that behavior, regardless of what reaction they have to it. Unwillingness to communicate, despite its cost to the relationship, is a great way to drive others to leave, by generally sending a very cold and uncaring message
 
Perhaps the relationship between Thunder and the rest of the group is not a good fit.

It's an unusual situation to begin with. If he has issues with communication, he might be better off pursuing some other avenues.

I realize that to some people, this might sound pessimistic. In some ways it is. But I'm intending to say that just because people care for each other does not necessarily make them compatible as life-partners. Maybe everyone concerned WOULD be better off with Thunder as "just a friend".

It would be super-grooovy if Thunder would come on here and give us all his side of the story.
 
I am a little like your Thunder. I have worked hard at not being, but the fact of the matter is that for me the issue is twofold.

First of all, I grew up in a family where we were encouraged to speak our mind and communicate. But often, were bashed down like a stake in the ground after we did, if my parents disagreed. The information was then used against me, and I was made to feel guilty, and that they, specifically my mother, were martyrs for me. My mum still uses words to punish and inflict her will on others by telling people not to do something that she does. Very hypocritical. All of it compounded on me as a child and being the black sheep and unsafe and stand-outish in the crowd, I hid by not talking, becoming sullen and faking I was okay.

On top of that, I really needed space, and my family was and still is on top of me all the time. I am an extrovert and gather energy from the ones I love when we are all together, but even an extrovert needs down time and a door to close, so as to think and catch up with herself.

I would suggest to you that your Thunder is overwhelmed with his feelings, and communicating about it feels threatening in some way, and he feels cornered. He won't stay if the dynamic in your tribe isn't for him. Or he just needs some space and for people to stop bugging him to communicate, when he is feeling threatened by being asked to do so.

When I or anyone I am with gets like that I don't say, "I'm fine," but things like:

- I will catch you up when I can, and I feel comfortable enough to.
- I don't really know what is going on for me, but I need some space. I will figure it out. When I do, I will let you know.
- Please be patient with me. I am working out what to say so as to not represent myself in a way that is not accurate.
- I am having feelings, but don't know what they are, and can't explain them yet. Please give me some space and time to figure it out, and if it is to do with you, I will let you know.

The above are things I have said, and request that others say if I am confused about their reaction to me. Then I try and let it go and wait, either to figure out what the hell is going on, and whether or not this something I can talk about, and trust the listener, or if it's not that important, or whether I just need some space to gather my thoughts.

I find that it really works well to tell people what I need to hear from them. I don't like to assume that people know the words I need to hear. I quite often ask my husband to tell me something in a certain way so that I experience hearing it in the way that makes me feel comfortable and patient.

You could do this, too. You could request that he tell you he needs space, or that he is figuring something out, or whatever it is that is going on for him. You don't have to know details right away, but clearly he is not okay and you want to know why, because you care. When he doesn't offer you a reason, it is like he is disrespecting your support, caring, love for him. At least this is what I experience. It builds resentment and eventually becomes something it doesn't, when all that might be said from him is that he is going through something, but isn't in a position to talk about it yet.
 
That's what I was thinking too redpepper. I got the impression that Thunder DOES eventually communicate what's going on, but the other folks want him to process things according to THEIR metabolisms. I also get the sense that the rest of the group feels that Thunder is holding them all back as a group, although there really isn't enough information to say conclusively one way or the other.
 
NeonKaos said:
That's what I was thinking too redpepper. I got the impression that Thunder DOES eventually communicate what's going on, but the other folks want him to process things according to THEIR metabolisms. I also get the sense that the rest of the group feels that Thunder is holding them all back as a group, although there really isn't enough information to say conclusively one way or the other.
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Ditto...
 
Generally speaking, I communicate very effectively, but if I'm really angry or am totally surprised by a particular situation, I get moody and not very nice to be around. These times, I will tell a person that I've got something on my mind, and they can read my LiveJournal post when I've finished it.

When something is really bothering me, I take to writing. It's very cathartic, for some reason. I can let go of the conscious thought process and just let the words flow, whether it's via a keyboard or pen and paper.

It sounds like all Thunder needs to do to is vocalize that he's processing and needs to be alone. Is that something he would be comfortable doing?
 
I'm a bit like Thunder and Redpepper, too. When I have something on my mind, I need to process it by being alone. Sometimes just seeing someone else takes me out of my "processing the problem" state of mind, and just irritates and angers me, so I isolate myself and don't talk.
If someone talks to me, I don't respond, because that would interrupt my processing. And it's important to me to deal with it so that I can know what the problem is and how I feel about it. Then I can talk about it.

It doesn't happen to me as often as it seems to happen to Thunder, but I can relate to what you say. I'm not sure what the solution is, if it's become a problem. I think in my case my main problem would be that people won't leave me alone when I need to be alone (if I were Thunder). And if you do leave him alone, well then, what's the problem?

I'm not sure he can change, if that's the way he works. And if he can change, I don't think that change can be brought by other people. It seems to me he's introverted, and in the middle of six other people, that might be overwhelming him.

I too would be interested to hear his side of the story.
 
It occurs to me that perhaps you should just trust what he says. If he says he is fine, then take him on his word for that. You could even tell him you are going to trust that is true. You could say that you are available if he has anything to talk about, and then carry on. Maybe he just likes to sit on the outside of a group and observe, deriving his comfort and feeling like he belongs because he is there, something I do also.
 
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I like most of the things I'm hearing. They're very helpful. Thunder says after I'm done with this post he'll make his own account and add to the thread. :)

The main issue isn't that Thunder has a problem with something, it's how he handles himself around others while he has it. We've been talking about it a lot today, trying to find different ways to say it. I'm fine with someone needing alone time while they're upset about something so they can process, calm down, whatever they might need to do. However, I've learned over the years that if you go for that time by yourself, and the way you got it was to push everyone away by ignoring them, or being short and abrupt, those people are still upset when you come back and you're better.

It's possible that some of us ask him too much if he's okay, or what's wrong. I know Ariel has a tendency to push continuously, because she thinks he'll never admit anything otherwise. Me, I asked him once. He wasn't rude, but it was still very obvious that things weren't fine. Even though how he handled being in the same room with the rest of us (even for five minutes) made me irritated, I still left him alone, because I know that's how he is.

I'm not at the point with this that makes me want to consider dropping him at all. We did just begin our relationship. It's very possible that these things will work themselves out. Anyway, I'll let Thunder make his account and say what he wants about it. Maybe it'll give more insight.
 
I am getting a visual of a child that acts out in a family, and some Dr Phil commercial saying, "Dat dere child isn't the problem, folks. He's the symptom of sumpin' bigger going on!"

So on that note, I think I need to hear from Thunder, as I really don't want Dr Phil in my head. :)
 
You have to figure - these things happen in "monogamous" or "one-to-one" relationships. You have SIX people. It can be overwhelming getting used to relating to ONE person in a new relationship and/or live-in situation (even roommates who are not sleeping together go through an adjustment period). You have SIX people. I'm surprised Thunder is the only one you're having an issue with (I say it that way because I'm not convinced yet that it's Thunder's "issue" per se).

Anyway, I'll say once more - you have SIX people, so you have, like, THIRTY-SIX different relationships going on (or something like that, give or take). I have to say that I'm impressed by the way ALL of you, INCLUDING Thunder, are handling this thing.
 
Oh, yeah, definitely.

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