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Utopian 02-13-2013 12:31 PM

Welcome To Me
Hi, I'm Ute from SE London. I label myself as bisexual for brevity but I imagine I don't need to tell most of you that sexuality is not always so easily categorised. Just a short while into perusing this forum and I saw a post by a member seeking advice and it was followed by a clear, concise and sensitive reply. I'm glad to be part of this community and I hope I can be as supportive and to become more adept at managing my own emotions and relationships.

So... in brief, I'm a 5'6'' white male with a love of reason (saltanas are nice too). I was once a very angry and warped individual but circumstance* has steered me on a path that I feel is far more propitious for all.

*What are we beyond the circumstantial? I see no reason to believe in free will so I don't and I'll not bang on about it here but if anyone wants to discuss it with me I'd be delighted. I'm always on the search for evidence for free will (though it has to be said, I'm perfectly content with there being none).

So I'm currently in a loving relationship with an adorable person I'll call Oni. I met her a couple of years ago whilst travelling Australia. We met up again on the other side and a few months down the line, we decided to move in together. I will avoid speaking for her but I am habitually open and honest (especially when it comes to relationships) and she has always known what I'm about. She has a similar philosophy and we have often talked about the possibility other relationships and possible issues that may arise.
We are currently open to others of either gender (although I think she would prefer another female atm and I'm easy either way). I'm also happy for her to persue other relationships that exclude me sexually and vice versa conditionally.

Apart from Oni, I've only ever really been in one other relationship that deserves the status. That was over 8 years of me being in a relationship with her and her being in a relationship with a fictitious man who looks and acts just like me but deep down is a monogamist. Anyway, you get the picture.

I am perhaps a little damaged but who isn't. I'm as honest and open as is practicable and my intent is good. I hate no one and I mean no one harm. I wish to live in a utopian society so I try to lead by example.

If anyone wishes to discuss with me the ins and outs of anything, ask me for advice or pick apart my philosophies please feel free.

I wish you all the best,


kdt26417 02-14-2013 12:56 AM

Greetings Ute,
Welcome to our forum.

I don't often find a "fellow atheist" so welcome indeed. :) I perceive myself as a complex structure of molecules, sentient via my brain which is itself a complex structure of molecules. As such, it is doubtful that I have "true freewill," but I indulge in unconventional thinking regardless.

It sounds like you and Oni have quite a favorable and understanding relationship, so I am happy for you. I hope Polyamory.com will be an enhancement to your path in life.

Would you call yourself 100% atheist or partly agnostic? I'm just curious.

Glad you could join us in any case.
Kevin T.

Utopian 02-14-2013 10:48 AM

Hi Kevin and thanks for the warm welcome. I'm thoroughly disturbed by religion in all honesty - especially the Abrahamic ones. I know America is sadly rife with it. A travesty for a country built on secularism and the pursuit of freedom. It's been suggested that it's actually because or at least partly due to that secularism that has allowed the religious hard selling free-for-all that you find yourself swamped in today. And I know atheists are thoroughly oppressed in America. At least you don't live in the Islamic world. The majority of Muslim scholars would have you killed for your apostacy.
I think we need to firmly protect the rights of the individual. Especially the rights of children to learn and to be given the necessary tools to think for themselves and to have the courage to question things for themselves, not to be intellectually neglected, emotionally abused and socially isolated.
I think that multiculturalism - at least as it is - is a fools game as it safeguards the perpetuation of culture and religion over the rights of the individual and the longer we sit on the slippery slope, the harder the climb will be when we finally decide to do something about it.

To answer your question, I consider myself a 'de-facto atheist' (since reading 'The God Delusion'*). Prior to that I considered myself Agnostic. There was little change in my viewpoint. The shift was largely semantic. I still freely admit that I don't know if there's a God or not. I don't claim to know anything (or if I do I'm happy to correct it) but the word or definition of the word - 'know' is (or should be) largely redundant. We need a concice word for 'believe beyond reasonable doubt' to begin with and then a few more to further define the various layers of that.

*Incidentally, Dawkins (who wrote the book) doesn't even consider himself a 100% atheist in that sense. He happily acknowledges that he doesn't know 100% that there is no God. It's just that the evidence suggests that it's a nonsensical idea that doesn't warrent further pursuit. I'd been led to believe that he was thoroughly up himself and to my shame, had this pre-conception of him before reading his books. He's certainly frustrated but not arrogant nor egotistical in any way as far as I can tell.
I'm 3/4 through 'The Greatest Show on Eatrh' currently. It's a fantastic book. I never realised just how much evidence there is to support evolution (as if we needed more). From geological to molecular clocks and tree rings. Not to mention the bonus of a vast quantity of surviving fossils, all of which - the isotopes, the tree rings, the fossils - all concur with eachother. Of course there's a vast quantity of evidence I've not mentioned with regards to DNA hybridisation and other methods to the same effect, tectonic plates, study of biological variation, experiments using bacteria and guppies that actually show the effects of natural selection/sexual selection before our eyes and the breeding of dogs, chickens and cabbages etc... and it's all thoroughly dissprovable but there isn't in all of the concurring evidence, one solitary suggestion to the contrary.

As for 'unconventional thinking' and free will; the closest thing I think we can get to the latter depends of the autonomy/sentiency of the individual. Reason is like religion without religion (or perhaps religion is like reason without reason). It's an all pervading force that is seemingly integeral to the foundations of existence. Omnipresent. Unlike the 'will of God' it has no deep seeded bigotry nor megolomania nor wrath nor jealousy nor any of the other things the Bible suggests are all part of His personallity.
If we allow reason into our lives - and given enough time I believe it's inevitable - we will discard our superstitions and society will harmonise.

Well that's my laymans rant anyway. I can't claim to be well educated - I went to the worst school in England which was burned down thrice while I was there and got shut down a year or two after my leaving (Joint worst with one other to be precise. I still have the newspaper cutting somewhere).

It's definitely time for me to quit typing.


Utopian 02-14-2013 11:30 AM

I was going to ask your philosophy as an atheist with regards to theists but this thead is about me damnit. I've read your rules top to bottom. Anything on this thread that is not about me or my opinion is a serious breach of the forum rules and will not be tolerated.
I have to say I'm so excited to speak to someone who is not just a poly and an atheist but one who doubts free will also - I may just wet myself with excitement.

Utopian 02-14-2013 11:37 AM

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! ...the above message was supposed to follow the epic one which I spent an age typing that is inexplicably nowhere to be seen.

kdt26417 02-14-2013 10:39 PM

Hmmm. Could be a technical glitch. Check the Moderators and administrators page as someone there may know what happened. Did you get an infraction message?

Try starting a new thread, perhaps on the Fireplace board. That way you don't have to worry so much about what the subject is. You could post a link (on this thread) to that new thread.

I suspect it was a technical glitch of some kind. I know it's a little late to say this, but I personally suggest saving all of your posts before you post them. I always use Notepad to create a text file, then copy/paste off the text file, and if something goes wrong, I can re-open that file and retrieve the lost text.

I am happy to answer any of your questions about my beliefs or what have you, but let's take it to the Fireplace just to be on the safe side.

Sorry your epic post got deleted. :( I hope we can converse more.

redpepper 02-15-2013 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by Utopian (Post 184522)
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! ...the above message was supposed to follow the epic one which I spent an age typing that is inexplicably nowhere to be seen.

It got caught in the spam filter. I have freed it up now. It happens sometimes.

All three of the mods check in daily so be patient and it will usually be noticed and sorted out. If it isn't, then feel free to send one of us a PM (just one, everyone getting a notice is not necessary and it can be annoying when we have lots to do here and go to sort something out for someone only to find its taken care of) with a link to your thread and we will see to it that your post is approved.

Thanks for your patience. :)

kdt26417 02-15-2013 10:07 PM

Hi Ute,

I have now answered your longer post which you re-posted in the Fireplace board. You can find my response at:


Long story short, I would that theists and atheists could live together harmoniously, just as I would that monogamists and polyamorists could live together harmoniously. As for freewill, one must believe in a soul to believe in freewill. Since I doubt the existence of a soul, there you have it.

There are essentially three parts to religious/spiritual beliefs:
  • belief in God/s,
  • belief in a soul,
  • belief in an afterlife.
I have 3% or less belief in all three of those things, so although I technically could call myself an agnostic (as 3% is not 0%), I figure "atheist" is the least misleading term.

Anyway, you can read my longer post in the Fireplace board.

Kevin T.

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