I think the three of us need a talk.
But perhaps you can confirm this. I'm writing this with a headache, so I apologize if stuff is sorta fuzzy on the details.
The living arrangements have become a major issue. Hubby doesn't like having E as a room mate anymore. The reasons are wide and varied:
1. E is overly talkative and can be overwhelming sometimes with the things he gets excited about.
2. Seeing E with me reminds Y too much of what he's lost (his monogamous relationship with me.)
3. Y hates sharing his TV all the time.
4. Y wishes he had more alone time with me.
5. Y wishes he had more time to himself.
6. Y isn't crazy about having to compromise on cleaning with a third person.
That said, E is on the opposite side. He does not want to move into a place of his own. He hates being by himself. He's an extrovert and thrives on being around people. He is not in the financial position to be on his own, either. So he would have to have a room mate, and one that is obviously okay with him dating his best friend's wife. That could put a strain on our relationship. Most of all, he hates the idea of seeing me less as a result. He wants the three of us under the same roof.
I am in the middle. There are pros and cons for me in both options. Sometimes I'm overwhelmed by E's personality too, and it would be nice to see my husband in a happier state of being. Living in different places may help with that. However, I don't want to have the possibility of E just being flat out unhappy to come to fruition instead. This threatens to be a very bad situation.
The second problem concerns hard limits. My husband just made clear that he thinks he will "never" be okay with me making love to E or anyone else outside our marriage. E is a virgin. This brings up the following to mind:
1. I had grown attached to the idea of being E's first. I am struggling terribly with letting go of that. I'm not even sure why it's so important to me, besides that it was an experience I was excited to share with E someday.
2. I can share E with other women, but I know I will have a jealousy issue big time if they can have sex with him and I can't. I want to be equally important, and I just can't see myself feeling that equal if they can have him and I can't. I also argue that E can't feel that well-respected as a secondary by restricting him in this regard with my husband.
3. I can't ask E to be a virgin the rest of his life. That's just not fair at all to him, and he deserves to have that experience.
4. E generally agrees that in the long run, losing his virginity is an important experience he wants out of his life. He'd rather I'd be his first as well.
5. These feelings scare the crap out of me, because I feel like they may force me to have to choose between Y and E, instead of being with both of them like I want.
6. I am not sure how much NRE is potentially clouding my judgment on the above.
I have heard of other members on this board having non-penetrative sex as an option, and I don't want to rule the possibility out. My emotions aren't agreeing with the idea very well so far though. I just don't see myself being what E needs in the long run that way, and the idea freaks me out.
So yeah...these are pretty big issues. Oi.
So what is the temperature on Y moving out? And he can live alone/with roomie? And he gets his wants for quieter domestic arrangements and more alone time with you in his new flat? Has that been discussed? Or how about YOU move out. They sort themselves out on their own (since you cannot control their behavior) but you reach out for your own sanity/wishes? (Because YOU can control your own behavior.)
Could ask DH to clarify what "sex" is to him. PIV or PIA? Other things? Or any sexual situation at ALL? Even to the mildest hand holding two 10 year old could be doing?
There's a spectrum there to define. Maybe something here could help in that conversation seeking understanding?
What are your OWN wants, needs, and limits you want E to meet? Have you asked if he's willing to meet them? For how long?
What are your OWN wants, needs and limits that you want Y to meet? Have you asked if he's willing to meet them? For how long?
What are each of them wanting from you and are you willing to meet each of those wants, needs, and limits?
Sort yourselves out and talk.
All what GG said. :D
Also, you know, you titled it. The three of you talking would likely be awesome.
I empathize entirely on the challenges of introverts and extraverts.
Also, teevee solution is easy. Buy another one. It's not like they're expensive.
(sorry, I don't have much but sympathy)
Wow. This situation seems so complicated to me (as in, I would run away screaming from all of the potential drama if I were in this).
Roommate issues: 1.) get another TV (this has never been a problem for me - at one point we owned 5 TVs and never bought a single one - all our friends "upgrade" continuously - try the pennysaver) 2.) your husband's desires and your boyfriend's desires are diametrically opposed - this is a problem. Any way to "divide" the space? (like RedPepper - an apt within a house type situation?) 3.) boundaries - everyone gets "couple time" and "alone time" (for those that want it) - schedule it. 4.) Hire a cleaning person if this is an issue (lots of people looking for "under the table" income in this economy). 5.) Do roommates really give a shit who their roommate is sleeping with? I never did. I might have an opinion if you asked me but it is seriously none of my business unless I am sleeping with them too.
Virginity issues: this is foreign to me...WHY is being E's first important to you? (I was someone's "first" once - it was awful, this colors my perceptions. I, personally, have a "no virgins" rule - I am not willing to ruin sex for anyone else, let them have their awkward fumbles elsewhere, crush on someone else as their "first love", get back to me when they know what they really want from me.) BUT, sex and love for me have always been separate things. Nice when then coincide, but not required, I can enjoy either or both. Too much expectation can lead to too much disappointment.
NRE: Is this still in play? How long has this situation been going on?
I think you have to look at WHY you want the things you want. And whether the outcomes are likely to be what you envision. Do you think that by being E's "first" that is somehow going to "fix" something in your relationship? That he will be more driven (than he already is) to stay in a situation that has it's drawbacks? WHY do you continue to pursue this in the face of Y saying that he will never be OK with sexual relations with anyone outside of your marriage?
As an outsider looking in: to pursue what you think you want/need with E you need to break the "no sex outside of marriage" boundary your Y has drawn, if you don't break that boundary and maintain the expectation with E that you are to be his "first" you are condemning him to a sexless life = this sucks on so many levels for all of you, no one gets what they want and everyone is vying for attention.
You could decide to - "free" E to go find sexual expression wherever he sees fit, and come home and share his experience with you (compersion happening there), thereby removing a "hurdle" to your happiness (taking his virginity "off the table"); commit to some number of hours a day/week of E-free time with Y - no talking about E-issues, no discussed your E-angst, get E out of the house (classes, dates, exercise, barhopping, whatever) AND commit to getting you and E out of the house for some Y-alone time x number of hours a day/week (volunteer somewhere, go on a platonic date, etc)
Everyone deserves to have their basic needs met to thrive. (I, personally, need an hour each morning for coffee/cigs/internet/books and an hour when I get home for beer/cigs/internet/books - with NO TALKING, 10 hours of work, 7 hours of sleep - this leaves 6 hours a day for boy interaction; they can divvy it up however they like - together with three, together with two, alone, sex, talking, whatever.) What do you need? What do each of them need? Are those needs compatible in any way?
PS. Sorry if I sound harsh and unsympathetic...I don't mean to be. It just looks like you have yourself between a rock and a hard place...which is where it looks you will stay unless something changes. You can't count on THEM changing, so you have to look at yourself - the only person you have any control over.
As someone who can very easily live with a partner but hates the idea of a roomie (and I'm a STRONG extrovert, too!), I completely sympathize with Y. I doubt it's all about the TV or the cleaning, but I'm willing to bet that those are the tangible things he can point to and say, "I don't like that!"
What would I hate about having a roomie? A feeling that my home isn't MY home anymore (did you and Y live together before E came into the picture - a change like this can be extremely difficult to navigate)? Having to make concessions in a place that is supposed to be my 'safe place' or my cave. My partner doesn't trigger this "outsider in my own home" feeling, but a roommate situation does. Maybe that's the deal, but he doesn't have the words to say it?
If E doesn't want to be alone, can E find a roommate? Even if I *did* want a roomie, I couldn't imagine it being comfortable to live with one who didn't want ME around.
It seems that Y and E are both very clear on what they want. Y wants his home and marriage back. E wants to live in Y's home and sleep with his wife.
I have my doubts that any amount of talking is going to change this.
I think we've come to a point where we believe, as a society, that we can have it all, that we never need to make hard choices or give anything up, if we just really, really, really want it, if we just find the right words, and communicate well enough, and use the right technique to get to the bottom of things.
No. Y wants a monogamous marriage and the two of you in your own home. E wants to remain there and remain in a relationship with you. Maybe enough talking will convince Y to continue to accept the situation, but I can't foresee him ever being happy with it, given what you've said.
I think I have to agree with WhatHappenned. Your husband wants a monogamous marriage and you don't. I think until you sort that out yourselves, having the other guy in your home is going to poison your marriage. You would probably be doing everyone a favor by tossing him to the curb until 1) you and hubby are in a better place, and 2) you've both reached an agreement to try poly/open relationships, if ever, and 3) other guy is a little more independent.
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