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-   -   Broken rules, ill-communication, feelings of inadequacy (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3675)

TheBlackSwede 09-08-2010 05:53 PM

Broken rules, ill-communication, feelings of inadequacy
My wife and I recently decided to explore our sexuality more and opened ourselves up to other partners - we have done this in the past, but wound up hurting each other. With the growth we've experienced in the years since, the comfort we have with each other, and confidence we have in ourselves, we decided that we could overcome the obstacles that hindered our polyamorous explorations before.

Her work schedule is very intense now, so our son and I took a trip (over a month with family out of town) since we wouldn't really see her anyway. It was only a week or two since I left town when she took her first new lover in a long time. The news excited me, though I was a little caught off-guard by the intensity and length of their interaction... they stayed out late, had many drinks, and banged pretty much all-night long, and then again the next morning before she left for work. So, already there are some broken rules - mostly HER rules - they didn't use a condom, he stayed over (not EXPRESSLY forbidden, but something that we viewed as further down the line, and as a maybe), and it was a weeknight - she hardly slept. Also, she went to sleep without calling me to say goodnight. That right there got me worried, though she insisted I have nothing to worry about - she loves me and wants to be with me as much as ever, and is just exploring something new... that I have no reason to feel inadequate, that I'm "better endowed" than him (not that this really makes a difference to me), and she told me that while they had very good sex, that I was still tops. She was with him again the very next night, and again, not the night directly after, but the night after that. They saw each other numerous times since, and he stayed the night again in our home once or twice more. Their lovemaking sessions continued to be lengthy, involved, passionate, and rough, too. She used words to describe him like "vigorous, dominant, takes what he wants, virile, persistent, extremely driven", etc. This continued to make me feel a little uneasy... More facts came out that bothered me a little, and each time I thought I had completely processed everything and was 100% ok, there was something new that I found out and threw me for a loop, and I had to process all over again. Apparently he slaps her (in the face) and she likes it (I tried that once in bed and that ended badly), and there are some other things in a similar vane that she's never enjoyed before him. She insisted that it wasn't "him" that made her enjoy it, but the "way he did it, and his attitude." I also found out that he was on cocaine the first night they were together (no drugs for anyone involved, another of her rules), and then later on I found out he was on steroids, which triggered an "Aha!" moment for me, and further contributed to my own building feelings of inadequacy.

She recently came out here for a visit (travelling nearby for work the next week, so took a weekend with myself and our son), and the first two nights were good - we had very good sex, and even got a hotel room for a night for a romantic getaway, with the boy at my folks' house. The third day, her story started to change a bit - she owned up to what I suspected all along - that her lover IS superior to me in the bedroom (though she says only by a small margin)... not something that in and of itself would bother me - I don't need to feel superior to everyone in the world to feel good about myself, and I know there are many far superior lovers out there to me. This made me question everything else we've talked about, and brought all my other worries and concerns out again. When it all adds up, I feel emasculated - he's physically larger than I am (not in all ways though, and he's chunkier), a better lover, on drugs that GREATLY improve ones sexual prowess (and that she'd kill me if I were to do), he's reduced her inhibitions more than I was able to, she's broken her own rules, and she doesn't like it when I do the same things he does - she says it's because I don't do it the same way, but I have to wonder if the difference is not the technique but the man. This all came to a head Sunday night - I was very rough and dominant in bed, and she said she felt "trashed" afterwards... I thought I was giving her what she wanted. Afterwards, she was very upset, and I was very upset, and we had a big fight and discussion about all of these issues. It really sucked to end the visit on such a bad note. She said she felt like she was being interrogated, and that I was blowing things totally out of proportion. She may be right.

We've talked since, at length, and I've discovered that I had some creeping feelings of inadequacy before all this began, though maybe I buried them. I haven't been feeling 100%, sexually lately either, which contributes to it. I've been overtraining in the gym, and I'm getting older too (30 now), and I'm feeling the effects of my own masculinity beginning to wane. She insists that I have nothing to worry about - no need to feel inadequate, that I'm a very good lover, and that she loves me very much, that it's just fun and new, NSA sex with her lover. She just wants me to fuck her brains out this weekend when she comes back for a visit, and wants to see her lover from time to time when we're all back at home again. I worry because if she felt the need to hide the truth about his superior skillset, what else is she hiding? I've asked myself what she'd have to gain by hiding anything from me, and the answer I've come up with is freedom from guilt when she's with him - that's a powerful motivator. She's feeling hurt because my confidence has taken a blow, and she feels like its her fault - though it certainly is not! I have zero jealously over her receiving pleasure from another man, in fact, it turns me on to see her so sexually liberated. It's the little things that added up one after another that brought me down, and the one big thing, in my mind, the fact that she hid something from me - our primary rule is to be completely open and honest with each other about everything. ...she thinks she was in denial about it, and that's why she didn't tell me - a plausible explanation.

I'm probably blowing everything out of proportion - this has been a mostly positive experience - in many ways we've been communicating BETTER than before, and I'm glad that these feelings have been dragged to the surface so that we're both aware of them, which can't be bad. The tough part now is overcoming them without resorting to drugs. My confidence IS recovering, and my mojo is on its way back up... I've met a new lover myself, more recently than my wife, and we have a passionate connection... but she's in a tough situation (and I'm staying with my parents) so we dont' get together much. The NRE from that is a big help, to be sure. I guess I'm just looking for support and reassurance - and a new set of eyes on these circumstances to tell me whether I should be worried or not.

Sorry to post all this here and not in the "introduction" forum - this seemed like a more appropriate place to air all of this out.

SourGirl 09-08-2010 06:13 PM


Well,.it is VERY common, that once any kink gets involved, for people to have a easier time doing it away from the person they live with, and love the most.

Sometimes the brain cannot process or seperate things. When you do those things to her, she sees the man she loves, and lives with hurting her. She does not see you trying to give her what you think she is looking for.

On the flip side, many husbands find they cant get rough with their wife, because of that love, and emotional bond...yet they can with their girlfriend.

This is based only on who we are as people, neither way is right nor wrong. That internal wiring creates a need to keep certain aspects seperate from others. Much like some of us mix our food up and eat it, and others eat each portion of their meal seperately.

Can she overcome this ? maybe, if she desired to.

I am going to try hard not to inject my personal opinion on people who use hard drugs while screwing. ( I only partially succeeded, as I obviously felt a need to mention my dislike. ;) )

my guess is she is having the time of her life with raw, exciting sex. She could care less about his drug use, because she has no plans of shacking up with him.

I would say forget the specific things that are bugging at you, and look at the bigger picture. You two need to seriously discuss the breaking of the rules.

At the least you two need to discuss wether your initial rules were appropriate. After that point, you might want to discuss her disregard for those rules she helped set in place. You are entitled not to be swept aside. It`s disrespectful what she did. Good news is, she feels comfortable telling you the truth, even though it may be hard to hear.

Good Luck.

Edit to add : Have a heart to heart chat with your partner, and what seems to be her inner need to feel like a wild child. With her work load, she seems to possibly be experiencing some dare-devil desires. She is enjoying the freedom a nd lack of responsibility. Sex drugs, rock -n - roll, and rule breaking. Thats all well and good, and can be fun, but it stops being fun, when she puts her stable relationship with you at risk *******

p.s.s.....Please don`t call '30' older. :p

NeonKaos 09-08-2010 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by Superjast (Post 43434)
I would say forget the specific things that are bugging at you, and look at the bigger picture. You two need to seriously discuss the breaking of the rules.

Especially the one about condoms.

Ariakas 09-08-2010 06:34 PM

Honestly not everyone can offer everything sexually to a partner. This is reading more like an open relationship than poly. You are her lover, he is a dominant fuck friend. You can each give her what she wants and still be strong individually.

And boy oh boy. If you feel your masculinity fading at 30, you are in for a lot of trouble. Age has nothing to do with being masculine, its in your head. Once you learn that, the idea of being "old" kind of goes the way of the do do.

Lemondrop 09-08-2010 08:10 PM

Can I second or third the condom rule? Some STDs are completely invisible and don't scream, "Hey! Look at me! I'm going to kill you!" HPV can lay dormant for twenty years, and is being linked to all sorts of nifty cancers. Maybe not as frightening as AIDS, but take it from someone who had a large portion of her cervix removed, it's still scary.

Don't worry about the fact that he gets away with things you don't. You don't get away with them because she cares about you and he's a f*ckbuddy. In my relationships, part of the attraction between my husband, Easy, and our girlfriend, Asha, is that they like to be rough. Early on I tried to keep up and play as rough, but I found it frightening to see him in that role, and it made me feel tense around him in our real life. I depend on Easy to be caring husband and loving father and caretaker when I'm sick or scared--I couldn't handle seeing him as a scary person. She felt "trashed" when you treated her rough because she counts on you to show her respect--I'm guessing that with him it's all about sex and with you it's about feelings. She doesn't care how he sees her, she doesn't see him as a big part of her life.

I worry about this complete tossing-aside of responsibility. You guys have a kid and it kind of scares me that she's involved with someone who is on cocaine.

redpepper 09-08-2010 08:27 PM

sometimes I get so into wanting to respond I don't read what others have said, so if I repeat then I apologize... I might come back and say more after.

First off:
HELLO???!!! they didn't use protection and you are worried about the kind of sex they had?! You have a child to think about! Let me guess, you and her didn't after either? Now you both could be infected with something. I am surprised at you lack of concern over that fact. Especially at you age... ? confused. :confused That to me shows huge lack of responsibility. I would be getting tested as soon as you can and then tested again in 6 months. This guy sounds like he has done this kind of thing before and has probably not used protection with numerous women.

It sounds like he is using your wife for a good time not a long time and that he is taking advantage of the fact that you aren't at home. I bet if he meets you the reality will set in and he will be gone shortly after.

Sex like that does not last. You are the baby daddy. not the lustful stud. You are the one she is attached to. That is long lasting, not what she has with this guy. Who cares if he is good at sex with her. It's new, of course it is good... it is someone she hasn't had before.

It bugs that she broke boundaries. That to me is cheating and not open (which is what this sounds like more than poly as I don't remember the mention of love or and kind of steps to commit to knowing you or her in any other way than drunk and high in bed). When boundaries are broken then resentment, distrust, deceit, denial, and disrespect set in.

You seem to have a long journey ahead to get this poly thing... or open thing. Lots of trust is broken now. I feel for you. Protect your child first. He is your best interest here. Not either of you.

TheBlackSwede 09-08-2010 10:43 PM

Wow - thank you all for the replies... There's a lot of good things to think about in there, and I certainly think, some very solid advice.

RE: "open vs poly": Yeah, this is primarily an Open Relationship/swinging, I guess, if we're getting really specific with labels. She and I are primary, but we're open to secondary lovers and affairs, even some lighter emotional involvement, but we're not full poly.

RE: STDs - HPV can be spread easily even when wearing a condom - it affects the entire genital region and spreads through skin-to-skin contact. Condoms only cover the penis, not the surrounding area. HPV has even been known to spread through kissing and handshakes. It can also be vaccinated for now (some strains), and we actually HAD HPV almost 10 years ago, but have shown zero signs of it still being in our bodies for the past 5 years, so, yeah, we know HPV sucks... but it's a risk you take even if you DO wear a condom. She assures me that they had a talk about STDs, that he had a test done less than 2 months ago, that he's free and clear, and hasn't been with anyone since the test. Well, other than her.

RE: Breaking Trust: I'm not particularly worried about STDs in this instance for the reasons I gave above, but yeah, it DOES worry me that she broke her own rules - our trust, and she did so without hardly thinking about it. This was tough, and we talked through it - but it was the first of a number of things that I didn't like about everything; as I said before, they kinda kept coming one after the other. Neither of us likes condoms at all, so its difficult for me to blame her for not wanting to use them, because I don't like to either. Maybe she felt like she could break that rule at will since it was she who was so insistent upon it in the first place. She later told me she was mostly afraid of me getting someone else pregnant.

RE: Drugs - She told him she doesn't want him doing coke around her at all, or before he's going to be with her, and she says he agreed to that... In fact, she said that he has stopped doing it altogether. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. The Steroid thing, she still has not pressed him about... I suspect it's because she knows that the roids are a major part of the reason she's having so much fun, although she was rather surprised by how small his testicles are compared to mine. In any case, I certainly don't want him around our son, and don't expect that he will ever be. Were he to make an unexpected visit to our home in an aggressive and drugged-up state, he would very rapidly discover the fact that I am more than capable of defending my family, and will not hesitate to do so.

Very interesting notion that it may be easier for her to be treated that way by someone she doesn't care about... I never looked at it that way. In many ways, it makes sense - and I've honestly always been uncomfortable being particularly rough with her and other women simply because I'm afraid I'll hurt someone. I don't like hurting people, and have never taken any pleasure in it, even when it was necessary to force submission out of someone who was armed and dangerous during a physical confrontation. When my wife and I are rough in bed, I have never felt 100% comfortable with it, though I like how some of it turns her on - that's what gets me going, her being turned on, and that's one of the reasons I'm fine with her enjoying another man - the fact that it turns her on turns me on, and it snowballs. (in the metaphoric sense, obviously)

Again, thanks so much for the replies. We're going to talk again tonight.... the rule-breaking/trust-betrayal is going to be a topic of conversation. I think that's part of why I felt emasculated - as though this guy must be superman to make her throw the book out the window so quickly.

redpepper 09-08-2010 11:54 PM

wow, you seem way more worried about the fact that this guy fucks your wife better than you do than the fact that you could get or give STD's to all of you and that he is a coke head and is juicing. I wouldn't want my child anywhere near someone like this. I would be really fucking angry if this shit was brought into my life. It would be a deal breaker... I think I would say end it or I'm gone and taking the kid with me. I have no tolerance for that kind of thing. Then again I don't get swinging or the whole open thing in terms of casual fucks. So maybe that's why.

NeonKaos 09-09-2010 12:01 AM



Originally Posted by SvartSvensk (Post 43483)
In any case, I certainly don't want him around our son, and don't expect that he will ever be.

TheBlackSwede 09-09-2010 01:49 AM


Originally Posted by redpepper (Post 43497)
wow, you seem way more worried about the fact that this guy fucks your wife better than you do than the fact that you could get or give STD's to all of you and that he is a coke head and is juicing. I wouldn't want my child anywhere near someone like this. I would be really fucking angry if this shit was brought into my life. It would be a deal breaker... I think I would say end it or I'm gone and taking the kid with me. I have no tolerance for that kind of thing. Then again I don't get swinging or the whole open thing in terms of casual fucks. So maybe that's why.

I don't have any reason to call him a liar - so I'm not going to assume that he is one. There's also a difference between someone who has done coke from time to time, and someone who is a cokehead. I think, in regards to steroids, that most people have a strongly negative connotation with steroids, and one that is not entirely deserved. They can be done in a healthy manner, and often are. It is true that they can greatly damage your health if abused, and that some people experience rage and other issues with them, but they are in a minority. People who are well-educated on the subject tend to share my non-freaking-out stance on roids. Drugs are less of an issue to me if they're something that does not adversely affect the rest of one's life. I do also trust my wife's judgement - despite the fact that there's some things I don't like about this guy, I can't jump to conclusions, because nobody is perfect, and I'm no exception. My wife, in the past 12 years that we have been together, has always been a good judge of character, and I'm not ready to throw out 12 years of good decision making history over something that is easily blown out of proportion.

...I've also already come to grips with the drugs and bareback sex, at least for the most part - the revelation of his superior skills were a far more recent development, and something that, in congress with everything else, threw me into a tailspin. ...that make more sense?

Certainly looking at things from a wider perspective, it does seem a far smaller issue.

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