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-   -   What do you think? (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36682)

riftara 01-08-2013 06:58 AM

What do you think?
 
A short background on the issue...
R and I are long time friends and some-time lovers. He just lost a baby with another girl in December. He says he wants to move out here with me and live in a V with me and my husband, John. He made a commitment to me to do so and to talk to me every week (my only "boyfriend" requirement from him at this point) until such a time as he's out here or he changes his mind.

My counselor says I'm taking advantage of R by even considering him moving out here right now because of his loss.

John says he only wants to do it because I'm familiar, but is ok with him moving in with us.

Personally, I feel that R needs something familiar and I am willing to be that for him.

R says I'm not taking advantage of him.

What is your take? Feel free to be harsh and honest. If you need more info, ask.

AnnabelMore 01-08-2013 07:03 AM

Does he want to be co-primary with your husband, or is he ok with being a secondary partner while living under the same roof as your primary partner? If the latter, that seems like it could be a very taxing situation for him, emotionally.

Why do YOU want him to move in -- just to comfort him, or because you think you guys are really at that stage on your relationship?

Is there a Plan B if living together doesn't work out, would he be financially able to move back out and get a place on his own?

Am I right in thinking you have another bf? What does he think of this potential development?

InfinitePossibility 01-08-2013 07:32 AM

I'm not entirely clear about R's relationship with the mother of the lost baby? And the baby? Was the baby planned or was it an accidental pregnancy?

I reckon these things matter. If R is dealing with grieving the loss of a much wanted baby and the loss of a relationship with the baby's mum, then this might well not be the time to be making big decisions like moving a distance from his home and in with a friend and husband, hoping to have a relationship with the friend.

Did R want to move in with you guys before the loss of the baby? That might also give you some information.

Grief is hard to go through. My Dad died at the start of last year and one of the loves of my life died at the end of the year. The process is painful, frightening and utterly horrible to go through. I feel as though my world has been turned upside down and life is a struggle right now.

I suspect that the offer of moving away, starting a new relationship and being looked after by somebody I care for would be very appealing to me right now if it were to come up. The comfort and support would be very appealing. I'm equally as sure that it would be a bad idea for me to start a new relationship of any seriousness right now (bad for me and bad for anybody I got into a relationship with). My emotional capacity just isn't there just now.

If R is in the same place as I am, I'd wait a good while - roughly a year or so - before making those sorts of decisions.

If, however, the baby wasn't planned, R didn't want to be with the mum and is feeling enormous relief to be free from the situation, then I can't see why him moving to be with you guys would be a problem.

IP

GalaGirl 01-08-2013 07:54 AM

The loss of a baby is hard to bear. I am sorry to hear of his loss. :(

If you are offering your home as a safe place for him to be at for the initial few weeks while he is grieving, that is one thing. Offering your body, your lovers arms to comfort -- that is another thing. Offering you and your husband in a live in "V" -- that's another thing too and not appropriate at this time.

You can WAIT to offer that increased level of commitment in your tier of relationship when he returns to stable ground in himself. You don't fuck with fragile -- that's not kind to do.

Changing your relationship level to him when he is NOT mourning maybe two things is better -- mourning the loss of his potential baby, and mourning the loss of relationship with the mother? (You do not specify where that is at? I assume they are not together any more otherwise he'd be grieving the baby loss with her?)

It's better to be a friend right now -- that's what he sounds like he needs most. You with your "friend hat" on.

It is normal to crave sex after a death -- the human need to feel "yes! Loss happened but *I* am alive!" and since you are "sometimes lovers" maybe you both choose to indulge in that and create a space to be that kind of comfort to him too -- the warm body comfort of a lovers arms. Schedule a vacation, not a larger (possibly permanent) life change in times of duress.

Times of duress are not good times for making Big Life Changing Choices. If the desire to update your relationship to a live-in V thing is there now, it will still be there a few months down the road when he is not mourning. A change like that is involving your husband too. If you are not taking advantage of him now, you still won't be later either. So wait til later til you are sure you can take his word at a time when he is NOT suffering other losses. A better time than the mourning time.

Just as it is not decent to take up with a man who just lost his wife and is a widower, it's not decent to take up with a man who has just lost a partner/baby! He might SAY he is ok, but his circumstances right now could make his judgement clouded.

You guys being in a V could be the right thing, but you can have the right thing at the RIGHT TIME, right? Wait til his judgement is not maybe clouded from mourning a death.

And be also looking out for YOUR best health -- not just his.
"We became a V because we saw we really wanted to be together: Both in times of bad emotional weather, and in times of good emotional weather."
is a much better reason and foundational start to a live-in V than
"We became a live in V because he was upset over his break up/loss of his baby and thought he wanted this at the time and I was so eager to be that. But now that the storm has passed he's flaking out on me. Ugh! "
Your husband reaction is not "Yay!" but "I think he's just wants familiar -- but alright then" -- that's worth noting.

If a live-in "V" is what you want, give that live-in V the best foundational time you can give it to start it up in. Not be giving it a crap time to start it in.

So be a friend for sure. Be his lover, maybe. But be his live in V partner? That part of it can WAIT.

Just my 2 cents,
Galagirl

riftara 01-08-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnabelMore (Post 176517)
Does he want to be co-primary with your husband, or is he ok with being a secondary partner while living under the same roof as your primary partner? If the latter, that seems like it could be a very taxing situation for him, emotionally.

Why do YOU want him to move in -- just to comfort him, or because you think you guys are really at that stage on your relationship?

Is there a Plan B if living together doesn't work out, would he be financially able to move back out and get a place on his own?

Am I right in thinking you have another bf? What does he think of this potential development?

The plan is to be co-primaries. I think we've been at that stage for a very long time, and if we lived closer then this would have already happened. We lived together for a long time (mostly as friends, though we did have sex occasionally) and we were almost co-primary level for a year and some change before, but I moved out here and he wasn't ready to make that move.

I have offered to pay for the move back if things dont work out, and he has a place to go if that happens. The initial trial period would be six months, starting in August.

My BF is very secondary, I see him maybe three times a month and talk to him about every 4-5 days, I haven't had a chance to talk to him face to face about this particular development, but the possibility of me having another relationship he is good with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinitePossibility (Post 176519)
I'm not entirely clear about R's relationship with the mother of the lost baby? And the baby? Was the baby planned or was it an accidental pregnancy?

Did R want to move in with you guys before the loss of the baby? That might also give you some information.

IP

He didn't/doesn't want a relationship with the mom, in fact he is trying to get away from her emotionally, but he's a really nice guy and he is being there for her emotionally. They no longer have sex, he is only there emotionally, and he has expressed to me how much it is draining him.

The baby was an accident, and when it happened, R's comment to me was that he wished it was me (that was having his child), that he wants children, just not with her.

He has always been open to the idea of moving out but has always said he can't because of emotional ties to his friends and family and school. He has been working the 6 months or so to sever those ties that are unhealthy and he has found himself with only me as a true friend. And he is getting kicked out of school, so now seemed like a good time to both of us (well August when he should be coming out)


I think, from our conversations, that he is dealing with the loss (I know even an unplanned pregnancy loss can hurt) well, and the only reason on his end he doesn't come out here now is he feels an obligation to the mom.

We talked last night and he expressed that he wants to fulfill my contact obligation and he wants to come out but he doesn't want to talk about it or make definite plans (like dates or John and I moving which we will have to do) until he is free of his obligation to the mom. This may actually still work out the same, because the tentative move date is August.

And GG - thanks for the input, you gave me lots to think about

GalaGirl 01-08-2013 04:16 PM

It speaks well of his character that he wants to be around for the mom for support in the grieving time. Even if it was an "Oops!" they created life together and it is done. So a observing a decent mourning period is the decent thing to do.

He doesn't have to hang around forever there, but he doesn't have to make it be like "Slam, bam, thank you ma'am!" either in their lovership that led to an unplanned pregnancy. Parting seems inevitable there, but wanting to part on decent terms at a decent time is commendable.

Timing matters in things.

A right time and right place for everything, and everything in the right time and place.

GG

AnnabelMore 01-09-2013 12:58 AM

With the background you've provided, I think it all sounds very sensible and like it could totally work out! And, importantly, it also sounds like if it didn't, it wouldn't be an irredeemably terrible mess. For what it's worth, I say go for it.

One final question -- he's said he'd like to have your kid, in so many words. How do you feel about that prospect? How does your husband feel?

riftara 01-09-2013 02:01 AM

I feel the same way annabel.

John and I have talked about me having R's baby, I think, at this point John would just want to know that it was R's at the beginning of the pregnancy.

LovingRadiance 01-09-2013 05:29 AM

I think the most important thing is being open to change and taking time to process-not rush. It sounds like all of you are doing that. Also sounds like there is a "contingency plan" and a good history and familiarity (not someone new-you already have experience together). I see no major red flags so long as you keep communicating and being open to the plan changing as emotions from the grieving change.

Juntas 01-09-2013 09:18 AM

My two cents on this issue since I read over it and the only thing she said about my point of view is he is wanting something familiar, but go for it. Yes that is true. The other side of that is they just work better as friends that occasionally have sex. R has never really been a commitment type of guy. I am supportive of her going for it, because it is her dream she has a shot why not let her go for it.


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