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-   -   I am here because I am hurting. (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3657)

TeJoKo 09-05-2010 08:00 PM

I am here because I am hurting.
Note: We have been in a polyamorous relationship for years, but have been doing it without any guidance. We could really use some support and advice.

This is an extension to my introduction. I was originally going to post it all there, but it is way too long. I will repost the last paragraph of the story I posted there so this one can stand on its own...

I want feedback from some older, more experienced people, people who have been there and understand where I am coming from, where he was coming from, and won't negatively judge the kind of relationship we have. We are young... I just turned 26, my boyfriend Korre is 27, his best friend Joe is almost 27, my husband Jon 28, and this new girl Amber is only 21. (26 is still young, right?)

Last week my boyfriend, Korre got in contact with a former co-worker who he had a crush on. It turns out she is getting a divorce and also had a crush on him. He made a date with her for Wednesday (week and a half ago). I have had a crush on his best friend Joe for a while, but was always under the impression that Korre would be jealous if I went for one of his friends. We talked about that and he encouraged me to go for him. So I went out with Joe night. We both had sex that night with our new flings, and when she was gone and I returned home, Korre and I stayed up late talking and being happy. There were no hurt feelings that night, none at all. (Just confirmed again, there were none.) Everything was good. There was talk that this girl might be the right girl for us. That idea excited me. I want my men to have another woman in their lives, like I have them. The next day Korre called me up from work and told me that Amber had just gotten kicked out of her mom's house, where she was staying since the separation, and he asked if she could stay with us for a couple days. I said yes, anything she needs. I am generally a very accepting, loving, giving person. ...This is when the problems started.
Thursday night was alright. I was a little tiny bit jealous of the attention he spent with her, and knowing another girl was in my spot in his bed, but that is a normal feeling which I have felt before when he's had those one night flings. Joe was also staying with us that night to keep me company, so it was nice. There were a couple signs that things weren't going quite right, (she talked quietly to him more than to the group, and spent most texting or emailing on her phone) but they were mild and I attributed them to her situation and shyness.
My husband, Jon has been in Afghanistan, and was coming home for leave on Friday. So, Friday his friend left for work and we left to pick my husband up from the airport. On the ride I interrupted Korre's singing along to a song to tell him of a childhood memory the song just invoked. He looked and responded to me in an irritated manner, which isn't uncommon for him, but but it really hurt me in that moment and I got teary eyed. We picked my husband up and went to eat. After that we were dropped off at home and Korre took Amber to her ex's house to see her baby and went to work himself. That night I knew Korre was going to be home from work late because he had to pick her up but I sent him a text message at about the time he would normally be home asking him "eta? I just miss you". I thought he would have his phone turned on by then, and was pretty bummed when I didn't get a response, and he got home little more than a half hour later. I am normally waiting outside or go outside to greet when when he gets home. That night when he got home I rushed outside to greet him and he said hi and went straight to the back of the vehicle to get her stuff. They came in and went straight into his room. They left the door open, but he told me not to go in there because he had a birthday present for me in there. She plugged in her laptop and wanted to show him something on the computer, which took 5 minutes. Jon and Joe were there so Korre didn't feel like I needed his time and our regular routine as much as I did. But that really hurt me. They came out and spent time with the group, but she still didn't talk to me much, never came outside when we all went out to smoke but did go outside when Korre went out alone. I was feeling jealous, like really jealous. I've NEVER felt that before. I was hurt and angry (still am), and I felt like she was taking my place. We had plans to go camping the next day, Saturday, for my birthday which was on Sunday. I expressed how I did not want to feel like this over my birthday and would really prefer she not go. Since she didn't seem to have anywhere else to go I told Korre that he could stay here with her. He did not want to miss my birthday, so after a lot of talking he convinced me that he would give me more attention and that it would be okay for her to come camping with us.
Saturday came and we got a late start. Korre asked me if I wanted him to clear a space in the Tahoe so I can ride with him and her. Of course I'd have the front seat, but I didn't really want to ride with the both of them and chose to ride with Joe instead. I chose Joe over my husband mostly because my husband's truck was old, mold smelling, and just generally uncomfortable. We stopped half way to get groceries and eat lunch. all through walmart Korre walked behind with Amber, while I moved my normal 'lets get this done with' speed. A couple times I had to wait for them to catch up and to get his attention to show him something. It hurt to not have that attention, and to have it removed so suddenly. On the rest of the drive I started to get upset that she was in my seat in the Tahoe. I felt like I was being replaced even in my own vehicle. When we showed up a minutes or two behind everyone else, Korre had already parked in the way of the area that has always been used as the bathroom. We agreed to discuss it but no one had any suggestions and it felt like I was the one expected to come up with suggestions just because I was the only one who didn't like that configuration. (In all fairness, the male brain is much better at spacial awareness than the female brain. Three males and one other female all waited on me for spacial ideas.) I got frustrated, told them I didn't care how they moved it but I wanted that area open... and walked down the road to find another place to pee.
I was gone maybe 5-10 minutes, and almost back when Korre came out to find me and talk to me. I was still frustrated, and wasn't done having my alone time. I was angry when I walked back to the camp site. Nothing had been done yet, and that frustrated me a little bit more. The memory of the next couple minutes is kind of blurred, but after a bit Joe and I were going to talk a walk and talk but he got caught up with something so my husband walked off with me. We talked a bit and he said he would take Korre and Amber aside separately and talk to them. He did took her first and he and I talked before he walked away with Korre. They were gone a long while and Joe, Amber, and I sat and talked happily. Korre and Jon came back and I went and talked to Jon a little bit. We came back and it was getting pretty late. Things were going well, I was comfortable with what was going on until Korre suggested we sleep in the vehicles instead of setting up tents because it was getting late. I started getting uncomfortable with the idea of her sleeping in my seat in the Tahoe, where I have slept camping many times. But I was dealing with the idea until I heard her say to Korre that she was going to climb across his seat and the center console to get to her seat. That just pissed me off. That was it. The passenger door was accessible, she just didn't want to brush against a branch that could have just been cut out of the way. I felt like she was not at all respecting our vehicle and I felt like he was letting her disrespect our vehicle. It started a fight. I was yelling, bitching about everything, including her. I accidentally said something that hurt Joe and he sped out of there. I tried to stop him with a sincere apology but he is a lot like me, he needed space first. The fighting continued. It didn't occur to me that she was sitting in the vehicle and could hear me, but I should have known she wouldn't walk off by herself in the dark. She's not got a lot of outdoors experience and was kind of scared of the things that are everyday normal for me (like crickets and the dark forest). She came out yelling back at me, mostly defending Korre, and that pissed me off more. (I do admit I have anger problems, but I'm working on that.) I told her she was no longer welcome in my home and decided I wanted to leave, so my husband and I pack up to go as Korre comforts her while she is crying. We left, or, tried to. We got to a fork, and Jon is fairly unfamiliar with the area and I don't drive, so we picked a way. It didn't look right but the other way didn't look right to him either so we went back to ask for assistance out. Korre and I talked a little, and we decided that Amber would ride with my Jon while I rode with Korre to talk. About 10 minutes down the dirt road when its a straight shot out we let them pass us so I could pee again. A few minutes later we caught up and they were stopped in the road with a popped tire. At about 1:30 am we unpacked both vehicles, decided what we could leave in the cab of the truck, and played Tetris with the Tahoe. This went so very smoothly. Situation like that tend to be very sobering, no matter what the 'drunk' is. So, we got home and all went to bed. Amber slept in Korre's bed, he slept on the couch. By the time I woke up the next afternoon she was gone and Jon and Korre had been up for hours.

(Continued Below, in reply...)

TeJoKo 09-05-2010 08:01 PM

We had a decent afternoon. It wasn't at all what I wanted to be doing for my birthday, but it was okay for the most part... Once evening came I started to feel no so great again. Korre brought up when he can see Amber again and that hurt me. They're already telling each other they love each other at this point, something which took him MONTHS with me, even though she keeps saying it's no strings attached. It also took him months to take me camping, which is something we talked about the very first time we talked. I was feeling very hurt, lonely, rejected... and like he was going to fall in love deeper with her, that their relationship would be stronger because the feelings developed so strongly so fast. He is horrible at explaining emotions, so everything out of his mouth was logical, but I could tell much of it was emotionally based... and I could tell there was emotion for her. I was just so very hurt. They texted a little that night and she asked for my phone number. She texted me happy birthday. I apologized for my actions the night before and we said good night.
Korre and I went to bed feeling okay, but I still had a lot of negative feelings towards him.
Monday was a busy day... We bought a new truck. Do you know how hard it is to find a wheel for a '91 Dodge Dakota without going to a junk yard? Nearly impossible. The truck was a planned purchase, the popped tire just sped it up. Amber and I talked via text message pretty much all day. There were times during the day when I felt depressed and angry at Korre, but other times that were happy and lighthearted. I did enjoy talking to her. That night my husband went on the 2 hour drive each way to get the rest of our stuff out of the old truck that was still in the woods, before we had it towed away the next day. When Korre got home we talked and fought a bit. There were a lot of hurt feelings from both of us. We didn't eat dinner, waiting for Jon to get home. He got home after midnight, and I was tired and broke down bawling in the kitchen. Jon held me for a while, and we went outside so I could have a cigarette. When I came in I was still feeling very down and I walked in to see Korre standing in the living room texting her. That hurt me bad... I had already made a comment that night about him texting her so much.
Tuesday morning I woke up depressed... I have not been this depressed since shortly after 9/11 when I was already suffering a breakup and my grandmother's death when thousands of Americans were killed by psychos with a few flying lessons. Anyway, my emotions up to this point led Korre to decide he wasn't going to talk to her anymore until I was comfortable with it. He decided that, not me. I never even suggested it, and even rejected the idea when he suggested it the day before. I do NOT want to restrict him. He told her that Tuesday morning. She and I continued to talk most of the day, and I was realizing that she was being very superficial with me. I opened up to her so much, sharing my feelings, admitting my flaws, apologizing, and thanking her for talking to me... But she never did anything of the like. Two days of nearly non-stop texting and I still feel like I know nothing about her other than what Korre's told me. That night Korre and I tried to talk about this some more, which we have done every night, and I absolutely HAD to know what he texted her that night while I was crying. He told me... Apparently before he got off work she sent him a sexual message, and he was responding with like... while I was crying because I felt like he didn't care about my feelings. Wow, you know? I don't understand that at all. I don't know how he could do that to me. His defense is that he was hoping she would reply so they could just talk. He needed someone to talk to... That makes sense, I suppose. He was just replying to her last message to see if she was still up... But it still hurts that he could even do that. I caught him in an omission when he said "I haven't talked to her today besides to send her that message saying I wasn't going to talk to her." He had been texting her that morning. Not like it matters, but what's with the lie? Then he admitted that she sent him a few messages during the day after he told her that he wasn't going to talk to her until I felt better... They were messages of horniness and love. So then I was not only angry at him for basically lying to me and just because I am still hurt, but now I am angry at her for what I perceive is her not respecting me. Korre told me to let he know how I feel, since we were still talking, and that her reaction would let him know if she was the kind of person he wants in his life.
In the morning I let her know, very tactfully, how I felt. She got mad. Apparently she doesn't get angry very often, but I just have a way of pissing her off. (Yeah, well, I've never felt jealous before, so I think we're even.) She accused me of taking her friendship with him away when she needs it also (he never told her it was HIS idea that he not talk to her). I said I felt she was being two-faced towards me for trying to be my friend while sending him those messages when she had to have known it would hurt me. Friends don't send friend's boyfriend messages of loving them when their relationship is in peril. She asked me not to message her again. Fine. But, it even though the response was negative, it didn't change Korre's feelings. That evening I did get another message from her. When Korre told her he wasn't going to talk to her for a while he told her she could call me and Jon if she needs any favors, since she doesn't have a vehicle at the moment. So I got a message that evening asking if someone could give her a ride somewhere important the next day. Because of its importance, I told Korre to go ahead and take her, and she asked me permission to call him. They arranged for Korre to take her one way and Jon to take her the other since Korre would need to be at work. As it turns out, we stayed up until past 8 am that night/morning talking, and I slept in Korre's bed with him for the first time since this all started. We asked Jon to take care of it in the morning since Korre still had to work and would get no sleep if he had to drive out to where Amber was staying to get her to her appointment in time to then get to work. Things didn't go well for Jon on the second trip. He ran into traffic, then had to wait around for an hour for Amber's mom to bring her stuff, and had to drive Amber's baby back along with Amber and her friend. The only warning Jon got of this was a voice mail that she left on my phone that he never got, after the initial call saying she was ready to be picked up. Jon is the one who likes babies the least of the both of us. I don't like them, but Jon really dislikes them. Plus, it restricted him from smoking while driving because the baby was with them. This event made us all feel like she was taking advantage of us, and for a whole day Korre didn't even have the urge to ask me when he could see her again. We did have another little tiff that night, but it was just over hurt feelings and not understanding.
On Friday things were generally good. We talked about our feelings, and have been more able to discuss what we really want and need from each other. We looked up some websites. Korre found one with a whole bunch of tips and advice on polyamorous relationships, including things on secondary relationships, new relationships and so on. It looks like we have a lot of reading to do... And I found this site.
Saturday has been good. We've been able to talk more about what we need, want, and expect. We are both able to admit our faults (we have been throughout this whole thing, but we seem them more clearly now), and we see where we both went wrong. Jon, Korre, and I discussed us all having a talk with Amber (mostly me and her, it seems), if she still wants to give this a try, to see if we can work this all out. There has been a serious lack of communication between her and myself, and between her and Korre.
--I typed that up last night but didn't post yet. Today is Sunday again and we are getting ready to go pick up Amber to have a talk with her. I really do hope things go well.

Both Korre and I feel like this didn't have to happen like this and it didn't have to be this hard. If boundaries would have been properly set and followed, we could have done this with minimal hurt feelings. We weren't prepared at all.

I would really like some feedback and some support in this situation. I do want things to work out. I don't want to be hypocritical or unfair.

SNeacail 09-05-2010 09:45 PM

I'm still new to this whole poly thing, but a couple of things sent up HUGE red flags:

She's only 21 and got kicked out of her parents house - Most parents don't just kick out their 21yr old daughter, especially when she is going thru something major like a divorce.

She is getting a divorce, and her baby is with the husband - again, not typical.

Combined the above two and red warning lights are added to the red flags. This is just a strange situation in itself.

TeJoKo 09-06-2010 05:23 AM

Reasons for these red flags
I didn't post the reasons behind those things because I didn't have her consent to discuss sensitive topics... But I have it now. She is divorcing because her husband is physically abusive and left her for a teenager. (When she told me the girl is only 17 it took me a second to realize her husband is only 20, which makes it legal in this state, but still.) And her mother kicked her out because she finally got the courage to confront her mother about the abuse her dad inflicted on her as a child. Her stories have remained consistent, so I have no reason to think she is lying.
My husband met her mother the other day when he gave Amber a ride. He even says her mother is a complete bitch. (Bagged all her stuff in garbage bags and tossed it out the back of the car, breakable stuff included.)
Her age shows through a lot... It's apparent that she has very little relationship experience, little life experience, and little life knowledge. All are things that are kind of iffy for someone we might want to add to the family... Korre insists that at her age she is still very impressionable, and having her around us will encourage her to gain those experiences and knowledge.
All the girls that have shown interest in Korre since we've been together have been 21 or under, and bi. I am straight, and every one of these girls has wanted a threesome. Why is it so hard to find a straight girl that is our age? (I don't expect you to answer that, just a little side rant). But... does it seem like more teen and 20-something girls are bi these days that straight?

Derrythe 09-06-2010 06:14 AM

From what you have written it seems like Korre started a new romance with Amber, so he's likely deep in the throes of NRE and very exited about the new relationship. This is leading him to pay less attention to you than you're used to which hurts, and the fact that the communication between the three of you is very poor makes it seem like she is distracting him from you on purpose which may not be the case. Meanwhile Korre is playing a kind of balancing act, trying to make you happy, trying to make things work with Amber, and getting what may seem to him like mixed signals from you. First you tell him everything is ok, go ahead, then you tell him to back off and pay attention to you which you then contradict when you choose him to be the one who helps her out.

Now, that may sound like an attack on you, but it really isn't. I'm only trying to condense the problem down in a shorter for to see if I have the basic idea or not. From what I see, if that is basically right, having a talk between the three of you, maybe with your husband and boyfriend (one of which is Joe don't remember the other) as mediators to help facilitate seems like the best idea, either way everyone needs to get their problems and expectations out in the open so everyone can know where they stand. Hopefully it will go well for you, you must be a pretty awesome woman to have three men who seem to care for you so much. God bless.

redpepper 09-06-2010 07:37 AM

I could see from the first few lines that this seems to be a matter of too much too fast... way to fast! Its one thing to be happy and full of compersion for your love to have good first date and first fuck, but to have her move in with you and go on holiday with you is just way too fast. Giving and accepting or not, I think you forgot to be giving and accepting of your limits.

Now he is way into his NRE without any real separation from Amber in order to get a handle on that. On what he has in your tribe and in you. He didn't take the time to adjust to his feelings and take the space to go over it all with you and the others...

Of course she is going to bug. No matter what someone does, when they have suddenly appeared in your life and are suppose to mean something, they are going to bug. Taking that into account as your internal way of defending your position in his life is important. Your instinct is telling you that she is a threat. Trust that and do what you need to do to make sure you can get back to that same feeling on the first night...

How do you do that? Request that they go back to dating. She needs her own place to do that and then they will need to plan with you about when would be a good date time.

Of course he may not be so cool with that if he is in the throngs of NRE, but that doesn't mean that you can't ask for what you need and remind him that you have a relationship to work on also. If he loves you the way he says he does then I would think he would be interested in making sure that you are okay and would be willing to work towards a mutual comfort for all.

TruckerPete 09-06-2010 01:38 PM

Kudos to her for getting out of TWO bad situations. But this is all the more reason not to jump into things with you guys. Agreed with RP. Too much, too fast, mucho NRE. Taking in people with serious life crises going on while in the throes of NRE has not worked well for the majority of posters on this board. Move her into her own place, even if this takes a plan and quite some weeks to put into action. You ALL need the space, even her.

I don't think her child will make matters any easier, since you have said both you and hubby dislike children.

Also, you have been an established tribe for much of your adult lives. I wonder if you ever needed to develop the special brand of "poly communication"? From your back story, it sounds like everything really fell into place with Korre and husband.

I would start reading as though you're new to this. Encourage your family to do the same. Encourage Amber to do the same. If it's going to work, you've got some self work to do too! You've been the centre of your mens' attentions for quite a while. It's natural to feel jealous, but it's going to suck.

Just my random thoughts about the situation. Keep us posted.

Confused 09-06-2010 04:28 PM

If her husband was abusive, why does he still have the baby???

NeonKaos 09-06-2010 04:33 PM


Originally Posted by Confused (Post 43187)
If her husband was abusive, why does he still have the baby???

Thanks for mentioning the elephant in the room.

TeJoKo 09-07-2010 04:16 AM


Originally Posted by Confused (Post 43187)
If her husband was abusive, why does he still have the baby???

From what I heard, she wasn't informed about the hearing to assign custody so she didn't show up. It was since rescheduled and she has full custody of the baby now. That was the important appointment she had that my husband took her to.

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