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-   -   Wiggling Out of Tight Spots (Violet's Blog) (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3452)

violet 08-03-2010 05:36 AM

Well, since this thread is about me - I guess I should probably chime in.

The NRE between HMA and Adrian was absolutely NOT just between the two of them. Whether or not I was lukewarm the entire time, that NRE spilled out and over into HMA and I's relationship. I've been really struggling. I saw him happy. I haven't been able to single-handedly make him happy. Therefore, I got caught up in it all, seeing everyone be able to be okay for a minute. I gave her the "ok". I didn't take the time to really focus on what my issues were, which I acknowledge was my fault.

My personal issues, and my relationship issues, in my opinion were finally starting to get worked out when Lana and Adrian came along. All the NRE and conversations and drama of adding another person to the house forced that to take a backseat. It got worse. Very quickly.

Adrian has serious social anxiety, and she was unable to open herself up completely to Lana and I. That didn't start happening until after she moved in. That's a fact. She feels she tried, HMA kept trying to help us see that she was trying to open up - but frankly, Lana and I just didn't get to know her very well.

Now that she HAS opened up to me and to Lana, and HMA says they're "past the point of no return", well - jkelly is kinda right. I am really getting to know Adrian, and I really don't like her. The hardest thing for me to deal with is that she really, REALLY reminds me of HMA's ex, Symphonie. I openly stated when I met Symph that she was NOT someone I would ever seek to be friends with in the real world. Adrian is the same way. I don't understand her sense of humor, I don't understand her communication, she makes little comments and jabs that while harmless to her - really hurt me. And Lana.

Everyone in this house prodded and prodded at me to start talking. They could see my discomfort about the situation - I was trying to deal with it. When I finally started talking, MONTHS of shit spilled out. I dislike Adrian, but am trying to learn to deal with it. I mean, I like her as an acquaintance, but she's not really someone I can be close with.

My biggest struggle right now is that I don't understand how a nearly 2 year relationship can take a backseat to something that's only been around for 4 weeks. ONE MONTH. I am literally sick over this - I'm so stressed I'm sleeping all the time (and it's not quality sleep), I'm throwing up everything I eat (I've already lost several pounds), and I'm subsisting on basically cigarettes and water.

HMA thinks that I'm irrationally disliking her because of my issues of feeling threatened. I'm realizing that I dislike her, period. They were having sex tonight when I was going through a difficult time - and it made me throw up. I hate seeing her with him.

I thought HMA was the man I was going to marry. I still hope to marry him. I'm going to try to see this situation through for at least a couple weeks and try to find a comfort level, at which point we're all supposed to sit down and re-evaluate where we all are. They all (Lana, HMA, and Adrian) feel as though my mind is already made up. That I want her to leave. I'm starting to seriously see that THEY have THEIR minds made up - that she isn't going anywhere. No matter what I have to say.

Where I'm at is this:

I'm committed to really trying to get through this. I love HMA. I want him happy.

However - I'm getting to the point where I understand that three is too many. Lana and I really understand each other, and communicate very well with HMA. Adrian communicates very differently - she's "logical" to a point of being illogical.

I've been here for almost two years. I have a ring on my finger. Lana's been getting to know us for a year now. She's my best friend, and now, HMA's lover. Adrian has been here a month.

Lana and I have both expressed a dislike of the situation, and a dislike of Adrian. Lana likes her a little more than I do, but she'd rather not deal with her, especially because of what it's doing to me.

For some reason, HMA is so concerned with hurting someone that he's hurting me. HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH ADRIAN IS PAINFUL FOR ME. It's not that he picked her and I'm not okay with that, it's not that only *I* get to pick the women he's with. He picked one, the NRE spilled over, and now that we've gotten to know her - we don't like her. And apparently, he's so far past the point of no return that he's willing to not only put a 2 year relationship and engagement in jeopardy, he's also willing to lose Lana (who has openly stated that without me, she's not in this).

I was struggling with some issues, mostly personal insecurity. Adrian made these issues worse, to a point that I cannot deal with them anymore. I warned HMA that I was going to be VERY time intensive and that it was going to take a lot of work to get through this. He says he tried. I say things were just starting to get better, despite some completely unnecessary resistance from me. It's hard to admit you have a lot of problems, and ask for help working through them. Especially when you're just out of your teenage years and still have a little bit of "NO! I CAN DO IT!" leftover.

Adrian threatens me because what I feel I need is for HMA to demonstrate some understanding, and really LISTEN to the fact that I tried to like her. She tried to reach out, she tried to let me get to know her. She cries over the fact that I don't like her, and I can't help it. Sometimes, a situation is just too much. She threatens me because HMA is SO CONCERNED with not hurting her, that he's willing to hurt me. It's not her fault she is who she is, but in my personal opinion, keeping her in a situation where only one person really likes her is hurting her far more than telling her, "I'm sorry - we thought this was going to be something different. We don't all mesh. You should find a situation where you can get all the understanding, love, and attention you need."

I am very afraid that I will spend the rest of my life miserable and tenuous because of the relationship HMA and Adrian have. I don't like her, I can't deal with her. But I won't leave HMA or Lana. I love him too much. I love her too much.

Adrian is going to get hurt. Badly. I'm trying to keep an eye out for her, but it's really hard. The only reason she and I will get close is a "keep your enemies closer" situation. I am willing to try to set that aside to get to know her better, but I think I will always resent her. I'm scared I'll resent HMA for putting me through this. He said he'll resent me if I make him leave her. He also said if I leave, then his other relationships will fall apart because if he can't keep me happy, then he can't make anyone happy.

This is way too much, way too fast. I can't do this. He won't put the brakes on with her and focus on me because she has needs. I get it - but then I'm not getting what I need either and well, pardon the fuck out of me if I feel like the woman HMA plans to MARRY should come first.

I feel like he's putting 4 weeks of NRE before me. An established engagement and life together. A house together. I shouldn't have let the NRE get to me, or let my issues and insecuities go unaddressed. People make mistakes. I'm sorry for them - but at a time when I need more love, reassurance, and understanding - I'm sharing that with someone who is very needy, who HMA is still caught up in NRE with, and who he really seems to care for more than me.

I love poly. I loved the relationship Lana and HMA and I all had. She misses it. I miss it. Adrian came in during a very unstable time - and we can't deal with it. He loves her too much to let any of us go. But the feeling I have is that by forcing Adrian on us - he's pushing two of us away. I'm scared. I'm hurt. And I have no where to turn.

I either deal with it, or I leave.


I'm exhausted from crying. I can't keep taking sleeping pills to calm myself into sleep. I can't eat. I can't keep being miserable and sick. I don't want to leave, even for a few days, but I'm starting to feel out of options.

And might I just add - I know that's all just how I feel. I'm leaving stuff out. I know that. It's just how I feel. Please no one (not even you, HMA) attack me for letting my feelings out and asking, once again, for help.

violet 08-03-2010 01:51 PM

Thanks to everyone for replies. I've been having a lot of emotional blow-outs lately, and I unfortunately had another one last night. I said several things I shouldn't have said, and when I tried to talk to HMA about it; well, I feel like he just shut down.

Everyone in my house just comes back to the "But butbut butbutbut YOU GAVE US YOUR BLESSING!!!!". I don't know how to get people to see past that. Yes, I did. I can give several reasons as to why I did, and why now I see that that was a bad idea. I got very angry at HMA, and did everything and said everything but "It's her, or me.". He saw it coming, and he told me if I can't just let all this go and trust that my needs will be met - that it will end our relationship.

Apparently, everyone in this house is emotionally drained because of me and my constant need for talks and my emotional blowouts. HMA definitely doesn't have the emotional energy for this right now - hell, he told me that some 8 conversations ago. But I don't know where to turn. Maybe if I'm going through a rough spot, I should try to post here instead. Poor Lana has now spent countless nights trying to keep me calm, and letting me vent. HMA has tried, but he's getting to the point that all I am to him is a constant stream of drama.

I called friends last night to see what they had to say. Every singe one told me that I don't deserve this, that I'm obviously miserable, and told me to leave. My dad offered to let me come stay there for a few days if only to clear my head, but people in this house know that some bad behaviors I have are reinforced and learned from my dad, so they're expressed discomfort in my going there. I made the decision to stay another day - it's all I can do at this point. Take it one day at a time.

I'm willing to try to get to know Adrian better and deeper. Hell, maybe she'll be anything from tolerable to a good friend to a lover if I do. I don't know. Lana told me last night that she is swinging back and forth between being really offended and angry with Adrian, to thinking she's an okay chick. Lana is going crazy - she said that HMA and I are not the same people she fell in love with. I can see "myself" so clearly - I've been able to for a while now, and I just can't figure out how to grasp onto her and bring her back.

HMA feels as though I haven't tried. I think I tried awfully hard. Two sides to every coin, and the truth in the middle. I guess neither of us can see the truth. I keep apologizing for things that I don't really feel are my fault to try to keep the peace. Maybe I should just leave for a while so everyone has a minute to breathe and get away from me and my issues. I'm scared that if I leave, I won't have a home to come back to. Everyone is so frustrated with me that I'm terrified they'll come to the conclusion they're better off without me.

I don't know how to try when seeing HMA and Adrian together breaks my heart. He slept with her last night (I told them it was alright), but after my breakdown I couldn't help but feel as though he was just going upstairs to comfort another woman, leaving me high and dry. I took sleeping pills and went to sleep. He tried to spent a few minutes with me before I went to bed, just to cuddle for a minute and reconnect. I told him I couldn't do this for much longer. He thinks I baited him into a conversation - all I wanted was for someone to hold me and tell me to breathe, and that it would be okay.

I can't get an ounce of positive reinforcement. I can't use the "veto power" to say, "Baby, your relationship with her is hurting me. I need you to at least slow it down so I can get my bearings." He told me he won't do that. He's not willing to have her leave. I don't know what to do. Again, so focused on the fact that I DID give my blessing, and not willing or able to focus on why I'm seeing, in retrospect, that it was a bad idea.

I didn't want to be monogamous with him because I didn't want to lose Lana. Maybe I should have thought about it longer, harder. I don't know anymore.

Maybe, if he's willing to spend some time reconnecting with me, like Mohegan said, that would be a good idea. I just don't know how the hell to bottle it all up and do that. It's worth a shot. I think decompressing would be a good idea.

I'm thinking about it, and I think that creating a thread on here to vent would be a good idea. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there with this situation, or a similar one. Mohegan seems to understand on a fundamental level - maybe as I work through my feelings, they'll be able to help someone else.

I don't want to lose HMA, but I feel myself slipping away. I'm so scared, so hurt, and so drained that I'm at my wit's end. The only thing I can do now is demonstrate a level of trust and understanding I'm ... well, not 100% comfortable with. But I've done it before, and if HMA still loves me (which he says he does), then I'll find the strength in here somewhere to do it. Again, I appreciate everyone's replies. They really do help.

violet 08-05-2010 08:18 PM

Thank you to everyone, yet again, for your replies. I haven't had the time to collect myself and post up my current feelings, because some things have changed. Others, obviously, haven't.

We are dealing with the unfortunate situation that HMA just posted about with Adrian, and as soon as we're able to all calm down for a minute and feel heard and understood, I'll post up where at least I stand - and with Lana's help, maybe where she does too so she can get some insight. I'm sure HMA will do the same, and try to accurately represent Adrian's as well so we can get some honest feedback - which has proved, to me at least, invaluable in dealing with sorting out my feelings, getting back in touch with "me", and learning to better deal with the situation (ideal or not) that we've found ourselves in.

Thanks again everyone. Much love! :p

violet 08-07-2010 09:15 AM


Hello again everyone.

I almost deleted my account here. HMA encouraged Adrian to create an account (which apparently she did) and read through the boards and maybe post on her own. After the last time that happened, and the reaction that came from it, I frankly felt as though I couldn't post here anymore. But, I decided that the support I get from everyone here is so invaluable to me during this ungodly time is something I can't let go of right now. So here I am, consequences be damned.

The last few days have been yet another emotional roller coaster from HELL. There were a few good hours in there - a cursory agreement was reached that Lana and I (but mostly me) would trust HMA to do as he saw fit in the situation. That means spending time when and where he saw it best to do so based on the needs he perceived from everyone, and taking the time to do it in a way that allowed him to not stress how everyone was feeling. It sort of worked - he was feeling much better, and for a minute, I was too.

After the blowout of Adrian reading through this thread, she's had several changes of heart. She went from outright saying that she had no desire to try with Lana and I anymore - that she'd respect us, but was done reaching out and trying to be friends. Today, she told HMA she was wanting to bite the bullet and let everything go and try to be friends and get along again.

Lana and I have been through the emotional ringer. We're both done trying. I'm going to stop speaking for her, though, unless she's sitting right next to me. Because apparently, that just makes for too much need for clarification on her position. So, it's just me here now. I'm so done with this shit. I have come to the point where now, whether rationally or irrationally, I absolutely HATE Adrian. I hate her. HATE HER. I'm not sure there's anything left inside to try WITH.

violet 08-07-2010 09:16 AM

(Part deux because the forum hates long posts.)

*Ohm*. I'm completely willing to acknowledge that a lot of my hatred is probably ill-placed. She didn't do anything THAT HORRIBLY HEINOUS that should elicit such a response from me. I think I hate the situation more than I hate her, but it's just sort of bleeding out all over the place and making me kind of hate everyone. But it's at the point now that no matter how calm I feel, the moment I step into a room with her - I want to beat her face in. It's bad. I can be understanding and willing to look after her needs when I'm not faced with her. The minute I'm in her general vicinity, all my caring goes the fuck out the window and I don't even really think of her as a person with wants, needs, and feelings of her own. When I look at her, all I can see are the parts of her personality that conflict with my own, the problems in HMA and I's relationship, Lana's stress and hurt, my own insecurities, HMA's stress ... the list goes on. All she represents to me now is a big ball of stress and drama.

HMA and I were supposed to be working on "us". It's become obvious to me that without the Adrian situation getting addressed, it's impossible for me to just work on the he and I problems. The reason for this, I feel, is that she IS one of our problems. The relationship she has with HMA is bothering me so deeply that it's clouding everything else. And I'm just not able to let that go. I guess it's a personality flaw of mine. Or something. I dunno. For whatever reason, it still stands, I can't let it go.

We're trying to address the situation. Figure out how to make it work, make it better, make it go away, whatever. And HMA and I have VERY different ideas of what will work.

He still thinks that if we all just trust him and accept each other's offers of friendship, it will all be okay. With the emotional response she elicits from me - it's pretty obvious that I'm not able to just accept her at face value and put all this behind me. I just can't do it.

I think that moving her out, but not ending her relationship with HMA is the best option. If I'm able to acknowledge and look out for her feelings when she's not around and in my face - it's obvious to me that it would be best for all involved to get her the fuck out of here. For EVERYONE'S sake. HMA thinks that Lana and I just want her to leave so that we can gradually phase her out. It's really exactly the opposite. I want her to leave so that we can all calm the fuck down, pursue our own relationships at their own pace, and gradually get past the hatred and bullshit and try to get to know each other like we should have in the first place BEFORE addressing the possibility of moving her in again; if that possibility even is a reality when all is said and done. Lana seems to be with me on this, but again, I won't speak for her. HMA doesn't see this as an option because of our financial position right now. The stress has kept everyone from working, so money is a little on the tight side. He also views it as horribly unfair to her to move her AGAIN in such a short period of time.

We're trying to come to a compromise here. I feel that forcing her on me is hugely unfair to me, but I can understand where forcing her out when she doesn't seem to WANT to go is unfair to her, too. I just can't get my head around why she would want to stay in this situation. She keeps saying she's so afraid I hate her and want her gone - well, she's right. I hate her and I want her gone BUT the only reason I want her gone is so I can stop irrationally hating her, get to know her, let her pursue her relationship with HMA in peace, and let me get my head on straight. If I were in her position, I'd personally be raising my hand and begging for someone to get me the fuck out. I've even offered to work an extra day a week to help pay her bills and have a gradual plan to move her out so it's not an immediate pressing thing.

He doesn't want to talk about all this with me because it's unfair to leave her out of the situation and keep her in the dark about her future. I understand this! It's fucked up! BUT - I state again, knowing the emotional response she elicits from me, if all 4 of us sat down to try to hash shit out, I'd get riled up almost immediately, say some very blunt and hurtful things (all of which are true) with NO qualifiers; and the whole thing would break down because people will get hurt and defensive and others will get angry and I just think it's a damn recipe for disaster. HMA thinks that that's okay, and we just need to all sit around the table until something gets worked out.

violet 08-07-2010 09:16 AM

(Part the third because the forum REALLY fucking hates long posts.)

I think HMA is so done with all this - hell, he's STATED he is - that the only thing he's *WILLING* to see at this point is his own point of view. He's so sure that if everyone would just trust him and act on HIS perceptions that everything will be okay. He claims to be a neutral party, who can ignore his own needs and since he cares about all 3 of us girls; he can come to an accurate conclusion for everyone to go on. (Or, several for us to argue over the validity of.) I'm just not so sure about that. I trust HMA, sure - but I don't feel like my viewpoint is being taken into consideration at all. And truthfully, in his current emotional state - I don't think he's equipped to MAKE a decision and a conclusion like that. He can't be more emotionally stable until the situation is more stable, but the situation can't be more stable until we're ALL stable, I can't personally be stable without a whole lot of talking things out, he can't keep talking about it because it makes him stressed, which makes him emotionally unstable. And the vicious cycle just keeps going and going and going and going ...

I'm more than willing to consider viewpoints other than my own. I'd like to sit with HMA, or HMA and Lana and get some solutions and compromises worked out to bring to her. I'm willing to hear her own solutions and compromises. I may have to write them down and take them elsewhere so I'm not clouded by my negativity towards her; but I'm willing to try! The changes to my life are so painful and so stressful right now that I'm willing to try just about anything. As long as it's a compromise and all options are looked into.

I look at my life, and the people I love right now, and it puts me into one of the darkest places I've ever found myself. The man I love, want to marry and am engaged to, and plan to spend the rest of my life with is the worst emotional wreck I've ever seen him. He just wants to see his girls happy, and he just wants us all to get along. In my opinion, the sooner he acknowledges that that's just not going to happen right now - the better off he'll be, and the more willing to seek alternatives. I'm in the worst place I've ever been. Lana, who had once felt so safe with us, has voiced a possible desire to get a place of HER own because she's sick of feeling tense and out of place in her own home.

Adrian spends all her time tense, scared, and lonely when she's not with HMA. She's struggling with HMA and Lana's relationship. She's made amazing sacrifices to try to make this all work, some met well, others ill-received, and others ignored. We've all tried, and arguably, she's actually tried the hardest. I haven't had the mental capacity to try my best - but now with the situation and how I feel toward her, I'm STILL not able to try my absolute best and dedicate the time and attention to this is deserves. None of us are. She's in a horrible situation, and I acknowledge that. I don't know why she insists on staying in it when there are possibilities out that don't involve forcing a friendship that's one sided and full of resentment. She wants to be with HMA, and doesn't want to move out of the home he and I share with her right now. I get it. Sometimes what's best isn't always what we want. And yes, that goes for me too.

So right now, as he's upstairs putting her to bed and probably fucking her - I'm staying out in the driveway so I don't have to deal with the situation. I feel like I can't go in my own house. All of us dread coming home. All of us dread spending alone time, especially HMA and I because all that happens is drama and horrible, long, stressful conversations. But without working through it, nothing will get better. Ignoring it won't make it better. We can't step back from the damn situation BECAUSE WE ALL FUCKING LIVE TOGETHER. I've considered leaving, but my fears of not having a home to come back to still nag at the back of my head. I also realize I don't trust leaving HMA alone with Lana and Adrian right now. It's convoluted and a nasty cobweb of emotion and insecurity and god knows what else to try to explain why I don't trust him being alone with them. Either one of them.

I'm sitting in my driveway, typing this on my laptop, waiting for him to come back downstairs so he and I can finish talking. Try to get somewhere. Stop feeling stuck. Help me not feel trapped. Help him not feel caught in the middle. Help everyone feel less tense. But we always just seem to argue because we're both stubborn. We both think we know what's best. I'm willing to budge, but I don't know how much. We never seem to get that far in the conversation because we get so caught up in who should talk about who budges and what they budge on in the group vs. alone vs. paired off vs. 3 of us and it's just ... so fucked up.

I think I have the most to lose in this situation. An engagement, the man I plan to spend the rest of my life with. He feels she does. She has "nowhere to go". I am once again left feeling unimportant. He says since he spends so much time hashing all this out with me, he has no idea how I feel unimportant. Hashing shit out isn't making someone important - it's stressful and godawful and just sucky all the way around. It's not spending quality time, it's working on the situation as a whole. But, no one else sees it that way. So all my time with HMA is spent trying to get this figured out - and whatever he does with the other girls is his business. Supposedly. Nevermind that I can hear everything that goes on with Adrian because my room shares a wall with hers. Doesn't make things any easier.

They're talking right now. He feels I had him all day. I haven't spent more than a few hours of real, honest to god, quality time with him in the last couple weeks. So, I'm going to wait. And we'll talk more. And probably argue more. And I'll post here again - and hopefully, sooner or later before one of us goes suicidal or homicidal - we'll get this worked through and we can all remember what being happy feels like.

violet 08-08-2010 01:56 PM

Hoo gracious. I'm not letting this thread devolve into a big HMA vs. The World Of Poly and HIS personal mistakes. All 4 of us in this situation have made mistakes, and the big problem here is that while I will vent and ask for help here, I tend to not always post when things are good. That's what this thread is supposed to be for. HMA posts when he doesn't know what to do, asks for input, and rather than coming back and continuing to respond to the advice and help and such, he tends to ignore the poly boards and work very hard on the situation at home. He doesn't take the time to say what he's been doing to work on things - he only tries to be concise with his points.

I made it abundantly clear that this is only my viewpoint. I can see where HMA is feeling attacked and steamrolled over. Based on what I presented, it's possible to see where one point of view is, but it's difficult to really get accurate information when all 4 of us aren't posting up our positions.

I do feel that in many ways, HMA has been a little selfish and hasn't really taken the time to consider what I'm going through. But, he feels differently and he has his reasons. The other two girls have their own thoughts and feelings as well. There's nothing wrong with that. My venting has enabled me to not only feel supported by the people who post publicly, the people who have taken the time to send me PMs, and the people who have gone to extraordinary effort to send me IMs and spend hours talking to me and helping me through the situation.

So please, everyone get your dander the fuck down and let's just move on. Several conclusions were reached about a good way to handle the situation - hell, the way we're planning to go about it is actually MY idea. Lana helped me get to a better place in my mindset, and this allowed me to come to HMA and together, he and I came to a great compromise and are planning to sit down with Adrian, present it to her in a way that she will understand to help her grasp the situation and allow her to give some feedback and input. HMA has said that after that conversation, we will again sit down as a couple as make sure we're alright with what we come up with. Lana may or may not take the role she previously did in our relationship as a friend to both of us and help us to understand one another. But the follow up will be mainly he and I as a couple to ensure that as the "primary" relationship (a term HMA HATES with more passion than I've seen him hate anything, lol) we are alright with it.

I was able to very clearly present to HMA what I need and want out of poly, and how I need to feel secure. He has acknowledged this, we talked about what HE needs too, we took into consideration how Lana and Adrian feel - and now, he and I are on the same page about it. We're both comfortable with the conclusion we reached.

I will post again in just a little bit once I get everything more organized in my head so that it comes out right. But things are moving toward a favorable outcome, finally. An outcome where EVERYONE feels heard and understood and considered. I will still thank everyone for your replies and the time you've all taken to give input on this situation. Again, it's been ABSOLUTELY invaluable to me in reaching my comfort level and helping me to accurately portray what I need and want and actually get it.

violet 08-08-2010 02:56 PM

To those of you still posting in this thread, please read my "Wiggling Out of A Tight Spot" blog. A conclusion has been reached that I'll post up soon.

Gwendolyn, thank you for so concisely explaining the definition of a cowgirl. I really appreciate it. I've been trying to explain that, and people who have PM'd me, etc have tried to bring it to my attention unsuccessfully. You've made it very easy for me to explain my fear about Adrian being a "cowgirl". It's really one of my last hangups.

HMA and I came to a great compromise and we're all 4 going to sit and talk. I'll post what the compromise is, the outcome of the conversation, and the followup HMA and I have afterward so everyone can help. Thanks again. :D

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