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sage 06-11-2010 11:07 AM

Figuring all this Out
 
I have just read kat Tails blog and I suddenly feel really weary with all this. My story isn't very exciting: just a women in love with a man who is in love with two women. I have given advice because I've been in this position for nearly two years now so I can identify with people just putting a toe in the water, but the truth is I still have a lot more questions than answers.

1. How does a primary not become the "meat and potatoes" while the subsequent relationships are more like desserts. i.e fascinating tidbits that could not really sustain you long term but are what you so often crave because they are so delicious? It's easier to be delicious when you don't share dishes, domestics, dirty laundry, his kids and his ex.

2. As a primary can you expect to remain primary? Should your needs be primary?

3. Does polyamory create deeper or shallower relationships in general? Surely if you are committed to just one person then you both have to work harder at that one relationship? You have more invested because your eggs are all in one basket. With poly you have your needs met from different sources; a bit like spreading the risk or diversifying your portfolio.

Ariakas 06-11-2010 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage (Post 32441)
1. How does a primary not become the "meat and potatoes" while the subsequent relationships are more like desserts. i.e fascinating tidbits that could not really sustain you long term but are what you so often crave because they are so delicious? It's easier to be delicious when you don't share dishes, domestics, dirty laundry, his kids and his ex.

Keeping in mind everyone does it differently, This absolutely can happen, but I bet those relationship dont last long. But lets look at 2 couples merging

Guy 1 and Girl 1
Guy 2 and Girl 2

Girl 1 meets Guy 2 and start dating. They are secondary to each other. This balance is met because they do have another relationship.

Obviously this can happen a million different ways. Some people are more inclined to a secondary relatinship choosing to be there at certain times but preferring other relationships. Ideally, with everyone open, no one is dependent.

This balance is found with communication and trust. In the above scenario you may find guy 1 completely happy being monogamous with girl 1 even though girl 1 has a bf.

Quote:

2. As a primary can you expect to remain primary? Should your needs be primary?
Absolutely depends on the config and the people involved. Since you asked that as a question descriptive to *me*...my needs are primary, to myself. Ideally I have support and I am helping others too.

Don't focus to much on the labels, they will make your head spin. If you love someone as mentioned by you, work with the relationship as you can. Don't expect, as in traditionally monogamous relationships, to walk into the mans world with 2 other women, and sweep him away time wise. He has to budget that time and fullfill his needs, plus 2 others.

ps, he must be a miracle worker with a calendar haha...love may be infinite, but time in a day is only 24 hours haha

Quote:

3. Does polyamory create deeper or shallower relationships in general? Surely if you are committed to just one person then you both have to work harder at that one relationship? You have more invested because your eggs are all in one basket. With poly you have your needs met from different sources; a bit like spreading the risk or diversifying your portfolio.
I will simply say...people who suck at monogamous relationships are going to suck at poly relationships. Poly isn't some magic egg to make everything feel right in the world. Relationships take work...so in general, the relationships are as good as their weakest person.

KatTails 06-11-2010 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage (Post 32441)
I have just read kat Tails blog and I suddenly feel really weary with all this. My story isn't very exciting: just a women in love with a man who is in love with two women. I have given advice because I've been in this position for nearly two years now so I can identify with people just putting a toe in the water, but the truth is I still have a lot more questions than answers.

1. How does a primary not become the "meat and potatoes" while the subsequent relationships are more like desserts. i.e fascinating tidbits that could not really sustain you long term but are what you so often crave because they are so delicious? It's easier to be delicious when you don't share dishes, domestics, dirty laundry, his kids and his ex.

2. As a primary can you expect to remain primary? Should your needs be primary?

3. Does polyamory create deeper or shallower relationships in general? Surely if you are committed to just one person then you both have to work harder at that one relationship? You have more invested because your eggs are all in one basket. With poly you have your needs met from different sources; a bit like spreading the risk or diversifying your portfolio.

Sage - you're making me feel bad. Please don't take my blog as an example of a mono/poly marriage. My husband has been dating MG for over a year - and I have gone from a crying, depressed, resentful, angry, broken down, emotional mess of a wife to a stronger, more understanding, more accepting wife who still, on occasion gets jealous, insecure and cries. I am proud to say that I have not had a total meltdown in almost 3 months!

I very often feel like the "meat and potatoes" since I am the one at home dealing with everything while he gets to go out and get his "dessert." That is the hardest part of this for me. That is what makes me sad. Whether this is how he feels or not - a lot of the time I feel like I'm an afterthought.

From what I have read on this site - there aren't many mono wives learning to accept their poly husbands - so we don't have an opportunity to see one that is successful. Of course we have the RedPepper, Polynerdist, Mono et al tribe and the LovingRadiance, Maca, GG tribe (all of whom have taught me so much and given me great advice and support) but their dynamic and a mono/poly dynamic is very different.

While I may struggle at times, they are fewer and farther between and less severe - I refuse to give up on my self, my husband, our marriage or my budding sisterly friendship with MG. Who knows - maybe we will be that success story.:)

Morningglory629 06-11-2010 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariakas (Post 32450)

ps, he must be a miracle worker with a calendar haha...love may be infinite, but time in a day is only 24 hours haha



I will simply say...people who suck at monogamous relationships are going to suck at poly relationships. Poly isn't some magic egg to make everything feel right in the world. Relationships take work...so in general, the relationships are as good as their weakest person.

B-I-N-G-O! Labels are misleading, and have been a huge source of discomfort in our situation. we are all just working on our relationships with everyone involved. It takes alot of communication...at times it does make your head spin and your BP raise (or rise , not sure), but if it is going to be a long term and not casual or even tersiary well then...work it is!

sage 06-17-2010 11:24 AM

MG yes I know but....
 
I don't think it is possible to understand how a mono primary really feels unless you are one. That's why i think I felt sad over a post of Kat Tails.

We do work very hard at the poly life and at our relationships. I was reading an article posted recently about jealousy and what came up for me is that Z and his secondary J get to have a kind of fantasy relationship while I get the reality of him and his life which is not always so pretty. I know I also get the privilege of sleeping with him most nights and building a life with him and I would in no way want to swap.

When they are together I feel excluded (article says to follow the jealously to a more specific feeling). But the more interesting feeling is that I have given my whole life to be with him and had to work really hard to make it happen. We have a small house and I get to have his kids taking it over every other weekend and school holidays (mine are grown up), I get his computer gear spilling over everything and his grumpiness at seemingly trivial things that I do. Just venting here, I still love him to bits, obviously or else I wouldn't be putting myself through all this. And he is generally the most loving and wonderful partner I have ever had.

J on this other hand gets none of the hard stuff, she lives on her own, on a resort style island, doesn't have to work regularly and gets to sunbathe nude on her local beach most days with the exception of winter. He goes there to be bathe in her serenity, so he isn't grumpy, he doesn't take his kids or his computer gear.

So what am I trying to say here? I suppose that I work hard everyday to keep our relationship in tip top condition. J does nothing and he still loves her. I know, I know you can't earn love but it's just one of the dynamics behind my jealousy.

I also think I have an issue with their form of 'love'. They only love a part of each other because that is all they know of each other and yet he speaks a great deal about loving her. How much of someone do you have to really know and understand before you are really loving them and not just a picture of them that appeals?

KatTails 06-17-2010 03:22 PM

I can relate...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sage (Post 32903)
I don't think it is possible to understand how a mono primary really feels unless you are one. That's why i think I felt sad over a post of Kat Tails.

Hi Sage - you are right - no one can understand how hard it is for a mono-primary except other mono-primaries. The feelings, at times, are indescribable. Other can try to put themselves in our shoes - but they really have no idea. It's very hard when you had your life planned out one way - and then this happens, and everything you thought you knew, changes. It's different than falling in love with someone who is married or has a gf/bf. It's different than meeting someone, them telling you they're poly and you getting to decide if you want to continue with the relationship or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage (Post 32903)
We do work very hard at the poly life and at our relationships. I was reading an article posted recently about jealousy and what came up for me is that Z and his secondary J get to have a kind of fantasy relationship while I get the reality of him and his life which is not always so pretty. I know I also get the privilege of sleeping with him most nights and building a life with him and I would in no way want to swap.

MG says this all the time - that at lease I get to sleep with him everynight - but would she really want to put herself in my shoes? Would she really want to go through what I am feeling? Would she really want to watch her husband go off to be with another woman? She has said in counseling that she wouldn't or couldn't and gives me a lot of credit for doing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage (Post 32903)
When they are together I feel excluded (article says to follow the jealously to a more specific feeling). But the more interesting feeling is that I have given my whole life to be with him and had to work really hard to make it happen. We have a small house and I get to have his kids taking it over every other weekend and school holidays (mine are grown up), I get his computer gear spilling over everything and his grumpiness at seemingly trivial things that I do. Just venting here, I still love him to bits, obviously or else I wouldn't be putting myself through all this. And he is generally the most loving and wonderful partner I have ever had.

I completely understand what you are saying. Why do you think that people suggest living with someone before they get married? Living with someone, dealing with all that goes with that, plus children etc, is very hard. I love my husband more than anything - but at times, he is very demanding and difficult to live with, as am I. MG has said that she doesn't think she could live with him - that their personalities are too similar. It's my life, it's the life I have chosen - but it isn't always sunshine and roses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage (Post 32903)
J on this other hand gets none of the hard stuff, she lives on her own, on a resort style island, doesn't have to work regularly and gets to sunbathe nude on her local beach most days with the exception of winter. He goes there to be bathe in her serenity, so he isn't grumpy, he doesn't take his kids or his computer gear.

I say this all the time. Yes, MG has responsibilites, stresses etc - but when they are together, she can lose herself in him and put all of her issues aside. When I am with 2rings - we do have the issues of kids, house, dog, jobs, family etc - but we can't just forget about all that. We don't have a lot of time alone, with just the two of us. When they go out - it is just the two of them. They can have a picnic, take a walk, sit in the park etc with nothing to distract them. Him and I can barely hug without the kids or the dog jumping in. We don't get to go out to dinner by ourselves. Forget taking a walk, sitting in the park etc. - it doesn't happen. The only alone time we get is late at night after he gets home from work - but we are both exhausted and half of the time we can barely keep our eyes open. Where's the excitement in that?

MG and 2rings are going away for an overnight next weekend. All they have to do is pick a place, let their spouses know, pack their bags and go. 2rings doesn't have to worry about anything - because he knows I'll be here to take care of the kids, the dog, the house, the bills etc. I'm sure MG has it a little harder as she has teenagers - but she still has people there to help out. They get to go off, with no responsibilites, with only each other to focus on.

2rings and I are going away in a few days for an overnight and there is a lot more to do. We have to pick a place, make sure the kids can go to their Grandparents, call the kennel, pack the kids stuff, take the dog to the kennel, take the kids to their Grandparents, make sure the bills are paid ahead of time, set the timers....there is a lot more to worry about that it starts to lose its excitement. Then, while we are gone, we worry if the kids are behaving, how much is the kennel going to cost us etc.... I can't help but feel that I am the bland and boring meat and potatoes while MG is the sweet, decadent, exciting dessert. I am the boring, stressed, emotional wife while MG is the fun-loving, sexy, sensual girlfriend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage (Post 32903)
I also think I have an issue with their form of 'love'. They only love a part of each other because that is all they know of each other and yet he speaks a great deal about loving her. How much of someone do you have to really know and understand before you are really loving them and not just a picture of them that appeals?

Again - I have felt the same way many times. I am not saying that if she knew more about 2rings that she wouldn't love him, but fantasy is always better than reality. Day to day life is much more stressful than going out for a few hours or an overnight here and there. It just is. You never really know a person until you live with them. Do not read this as a complaint - as I said - I love him more than anything - or I wouldn't still be here. But our relationship is very different from theirs because we are married, have kids, a house, jobs, etc...they have flirting, excitement, late-night rendevous, sneaking glances.....

I have no doubt that MG has a different take on this - after all, we are coming from two different perspectives. I am speaking about how I feel and how it feels to be a "mono-primary." This is where Sage is coming from - and I can relate to her.

Sage - anytime you need to talk or vent - please do not hesitate to PM me!

Hang in there!

:)Kat:)

MonoVCPHG 06-17-2010 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KatTails (Post 32912)

:)Kat:)

Nice post Kat!

KatTails 06-17-2010 05:32 PM

Sage - in rereading my post, I realize that I didn't really offer you any advice - and that I made it all about me. I have a bad tendency of doing that. I'm having a rough time today and have a lot of thoughts and feelings running through me and they kindof took over. I'm sorry. However, I don't have any advice to give. I really don't know how to stop feeling this way. I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone and that there are people on here who are going through the same thing and feeling the same way that you do.

All we can do is support each other so we don't feel so alone.

Kat

Lost421 06-17-2010 05:53 PM

I understand completely how you feel, Sage,

I feel like my wife and I get to deal with all the mundane, often difficult, trying parts of a relationship, such as paying bills, sharing to household work, and just trying to get by. I feel like she can forget about all then when she is with M. It's unfortunate, since, he's a bachelor and definitely living the bachelor lifestyle, but if I let our house get so disgustingly filthy and cluttered she would have a fit! But she doesn't ever say anything about the state of his place to him, she just deals with it. On the plus side I think my wife and I have a much deeper emotional connection because we have had to deal with the hard stuff, the tough decisions, and all the mundane bits of life that get in the way of just having fun.

I'm not sure if I consider myself a mono-primary, but that's how things are at the moment nonetheless, so I know where you're coming from. My wife and M get to go on a weekend getaway while I'm stuck with the housework, the bills, and dealing with her work clients that want to change their appointments or add more time or what have you. Lucky for us we don't have kids yet, but if we do that will make things even more difficult. Sometimes its hard being the 'beast of burden' so to speak. You should probably just tell him how you feel about it, and let your frustrations be known. Sounds to me like you and your partner need to take some time just for the two of you once in a while, and you have to ask for what you want in life, right?

And so far as the type of love your husband and his gf have, you're probably right, they are in love in a bit of a fantasy world where they do not have the same responsibilities and he can just leave his responsibilities with you. If this bothers you, you need to tell him. You deserve some of that fantasy too, just as she deserves to see the piece of himself he leaves behind when he goes to see her. Being the meatloaf and potatoes in a relationship can often feel unfair, but remember that a person can't live on the desserts alone ;)

R

Morningglory629 06-18-2010 04:38 AM

Here is the issue I have with this thread...there is a tone here that a mono has some monopoly on relationship hardships. That is completely untrue. And KT I think you can attest to that and have posted on here about the issues 2R and I have had frequently. Also, you act as if the "secondaries" do not have their own domestic responsibilities, and dismiss the fact that those sometimes play on the relationships with your SOs. Not really a fair assessment-especially of how 2R and I relate to eachother on many levels.
So as a matter of fact in the general thread, the poly in your relationships have alot more to handle than you are giving them credit. They juggle at least two lovers. They are committed to both/all relationships. They are working hard to keep both/all happy (some poly have to juggle more than two). According to you they see you as their "meat and potatoes"...the staple in their lives, the nourishment that they need, their comfort food so to speak...not only are you commiserating about that role but you are dismissing their significant others as "dessert" -empty and not really filling. Very rude in my particular opinion. I think I offer a bit more to my lover than empty calories and fantasy. That may just be my opinion. But yes KT I would love to swap places with you for even just a month. I don't know that I could live with 2R but I would like to try it some time. We are very similar...that could be a dream or a nightmare situation. I hope it would be the former.

You forget that your polys are by nature loving and generous people who are doing their very best to provide and support you and see you through ACCEPTING them. Not accepting the end of the future you thought you had...you are learning to accept them as who they truly are and ALWAYS have been when you look into their relationships, and BTW that future is still with them, right? You have all stated something to tune of "Don't take this as complaining- because I love him/her to bits etc;" but YOU ARE COMPLAINING!

You are sticking this out because you have great spouses/gf/bf/SO whatever you want to call them. But here is what I think you are all missing in the poly/mono debate: relationships are all individual...I relate to my men individually. I bring to them what they need from me as individuals. There is no blanket way of loving. It is all real...nothing fake, or forced, or without struggles. Is alot of it NRE? Maybe in your opinion. I think it is just energy itself. I bring energy to any relationship I have- it isn't new and then fizzles. Energy is a constant. I work at every relationship: friendship, family tie or lover. I can only assume your SOs are similar in that they are passionate people...that is what you are drawn to. Now I do not pretend to understand the need for labeling yourselves as primary and us secondary but if that is what you feel is necessary then so be it. But you really shouldn't make it seem as if the relationship or the love is somehow less than yours. I think that is naive on your part. So I would just ask that you not relegate my understanding of how you feel as subpar because I am poly and you are mono. I think I am pretty good at maintaining relationships because I pay attention and think of my lovers and friends usually before I think of myself, and that is the trick for success and happiness. So I guess I do have a very different perspective. I hope this helps...truly I do. I don't want you to take this as a rant or retaliatory in nature. I just think if you are going to continue relationships with your polys you need to appreciate them a little more and not complain so much. There is a difference between venting and whining. Someone on here once told me...Don't look this gift horse in the mouth, another one said, Don't be greedy. Those have become checkpoints for me! Just sharing.:)


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