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Scott 09-15-2012 05:25 PM

Star Trek and Star Wars
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BoringGuy (Post 154958)
Star Wars vs. Star Trek is definitely one of the consummate archetypical debates of contemporary Western popular culture. You can apply it to just about any intellectual masturbation exercise, and use it to prove whatever point you want.

I have always leaned toward the "Trek" camp, probably because I can find more characters in it with whom i identify in real life, but it doesn't really matter which side of the fence you land on. It is still a wonderful rhetorical tool.

I hope you don't mind that I responded to your post in another thread BG, but it was kinda getting off topic in the original thread and yet I found it an interesting enough sidetrack to not want to let it go :-). So here goes...

In regards to polyamory, I think that Star Trek wins hands down in the poly issue; they even had that doctor in Star Trek Voyager who was openly polyamorous. Nycindie wrote a great post regarding perhaps the most brazen display of polyamory in the Star Trek Universe; in contrast, I can't really think of -any- polyamorous content in any of the Star Wars films.

That being said, I loved the Star Wars films as well; unlike Star Wars which, by some lights, could seem to be an updated version of the U.S.'s military (call it the 'explorer division' if you will), Star Wars is constantly portraying things from the -other- side; the rebels, desperately trying to win what frequently seems like an impossible battle against the well established powers that be.

I know it's not nearly as clear cut as that; the Bjorans, ofcourse, are generally thought of as rebels, but by and large we tend to see the perspective of the ones in power, not those without it. The only large exception to this is the Q; I know that the main Q guy is constantly annoyed Picard, but considering the immense power they had, they really seem to be amazingly benign. The Empire in Star Wars is generally anything but.

Anyway, if anyone else would like to share their thoughts on Star Wars and/or Star Trek, regarding polyamory or otherwise, please pitch in :-).

RunicWolf 09-15-2012 08:24 PM

I'm a fan of both, honestly. I lean more Star Wars then Trek, mostly because Trek is too clean and the people too perfect. That said, DS9 was probably my favorite Trek show because it felt more real then the others.

That said, in both cases you only see a small fraction of the universes, in shows, movies, or expanded universes. There should be no reason poly relationships can't exist in either setting. Personally I could care less about how much I see. Like my life, unless it's important, does anyone really need to know? Does it move the story along, or is it just a quirk to make a character/race seem more unusual? I'm okay with it being so far in the back we never see it because it's not important. Like how Babylon 5 handled the same sex relationship that cropped up. You know it was a thing but it's only brought up when it's important to the plot (which was all of twice) and handled tastefully.

Scott 09-15-2012 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunicWolf (Post 155000)
I'm a fan of both, honestly. I lean more Star Wars then Trek, mostly because Trek is too clean and the people too perfect.

You know, I'd never thought of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunicWolf (Post 155000)
That said, DS9 was probably my favorite Trek show because it felt more real then the others.

Really? I thought it was ok, but for me, The Next Generation was the one that I loved. I'm pretty sure I saw every episode atleast once and most of them twice, laugh :-). Oh one thing about DS9 though, Jadzia Dax was hot :-)!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunicWolf (Post 155000)
That said, in both cases you only see a small fraction of the universes, in shows, movies, or expanded universes. There should be no reason poly relationships can't exist in either setting.

For sure. Ultimately, I see fiction as a reflection of those who created it, and those people are firmly in this world :-).

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunicWolf (Post 155000)
Personally I could care less about how much I see. Like my life, unless it's important, does anyone really need to know? Does it move the story along, or is it just a quirk to make a character/race seem more unusual? I'm okay with it being so far in the back we never see it because it's not important. Like how Babylon 5 handled the same sex relationship that cropped up. You know it was a thing but it's only brought up when it's important to the plot (which was all of twice) and handled tastefully.

For sure. Whenever I see a film/show/anime/what have you, what I always try to think of is, why did they make it this way? I suspend disbelief to some extent; I don't really care if something that happened in a fictional show is technically impossible so long as it's not blatantly so. I generally think that all of these mediums are generally trying to communicate something on a deeper level, and that's what I like to focus on. Sometimes, even the authors themselves may not fully understand what inspires them to do this or that, but I like to come up with theories.. definitely keeps my mind going :-).

RunicWolf 09-15-2012 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott (Post 155001)
Really? I thought it was ok, but for me, The Next Generation was the one that I loved. I'm pretty sure I saw every episode atleast once and most of them twice, laugh :-). Oh one thing about DS9 though, Jadzia Dax was hot :-)!

And had many relationships, sometimes at the same time. With the Trill relationships where a tricky thing. They could have many, where known for having flings and where not restrained in who or how they loved other then a few basic rules (which got broken or bent). I mean, look at Dax by the end. In an odd little way you -almost- have a V going with an alien space slug as the hinge (chew on that image for a while!).

And the real thing I liked about DS9 over the other Trek shows? It was set on a dirty station in a little corner of the galaxy. It was dingy and often had the Trek universe's scum floating through and causing trouble. People where people, with real flaws, problems, and strengths. The station was far from clean or even operational at times. Plus I'm behind any Trek series where Q gets punched in the face ("You punched me! Picard never punched me.").

Scott 09-15-2012 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunicWolf (Post 155004)
And had many relationships, sometimes at the same time. With the Trill relationships where a tricky thing. They could have many, where known for having flings and where not restrained in who or how they loved other then a few basic rules (which got broken or bent). I mean, look at Dax by the end. In an odd little way you -almost- have a V going with an alien space slug as the hinge (chew on that image for a while!).

Lol :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunicWolf (Post 155004)
And the real thing I liked about DS9 over the other Trek shows? It was set on a dirty station in a little corner of the galaxy. It was dingy and often had the Trek universe's scum floating through and causing trouble. People where people, with real flaws, problems, and strengths. The station was far from clean or even operational at times. Plus I'm behind any Trek series where Q gets punched in the face ("You punched me! Picard never punched me.").

Lol :-). Picard certainly wasn't that nice to Q either though. Honestly, you'd think they'd have a little more respect for an almost omnipotent being, if for no other reason then that he's got so much power. And I -really- think it was insane how they never even -tried- to harness that power every time I saw them interact.

As to the station, I guess you're right about that. It's just that I loved practically every episode of TNG because of the stories in them.. a lot of the TNG episodes were kind of one offs.. no loose ends the episode before or any of that, it was like watching a short movie for a lot of those episodes.. but yeah if I had to choose my second favourite it'd probably be DS9 :-).

BoringGuy 09-15-2012 10:00 PM

Q was no question my favorite Star Trek character of all-time. I wish they had one where Q and Captain/Admiral Kirk meet. Maybe they do have one with that in it. I only paid attention to TOS and TNG, and the movies. I didn't care too much for the Borg, but they did add an interesting adversarial element to the show; also, they WERE introduced to the Federation BY Q, so they have that going for them as far as I am concerned.

Somegeezer 09-18-2012 05:55 AM

No love for Stargate? Sadtimes. =[ I'd have to choose Trek over Wars, but Stargate wins both anytime for me. I think SG1 especially, Atlantis a close second. Though Universe is just terrible. I'll throw that in with the Star Wars fellas. =P

I really fell in love with O'Neill as a character. Really resonated with me. =] I was sad to see him pushed away near the end of the series. Though Teal'c is cool too. Much like myself, I felt. No real poly, that I remember, though O'Neill and Carter right through was always those moments when you had to shout at the screen "get on with it already!" =P

huatare1990 09-18-2012 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunicWolf (Post 155000)
I'm a fan of both, honestly. I lean more Star Wars then Trek, mostly because Trek is too clean and the people too perfect. That said, DS9 was probably my favorite Trek show because it felt more real then the others.

That said, in both cases you only see a small fraction of the universes, in shows, movies, or expanded universes. There should be no reason poly relationships can't exist in either setting. Personally I could care less about how much I see. Like my life, unless it's important, does anyone really need to know? Does it move the story along, or is it just a quirk to make a character/race seem more unusual? I'm okay with it being so far in the back we never see it because it's not important. Like how Babylon 5 handled the same sex relationship that cropped up. You know it was a thing but it's only brought up when it's important to the plot (which was all of twice) and handled tastefully.

I like them BOTH! They are both great in their own way

Scott 09-18-2012 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somegeezer (Post 155327)
No love for Stargate? Sadtimes. =[

Lol :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somegeezer (Post 155327)
I'd have to choose Trek over Wars, but Stargate wins both anytime for me. I think SG1 especially, Atlantis a close second. Though Universe is just terrible. I'll throw that in with the Star Wars fellas. =P

Maybe I only saw universe? I don't know, the only bits of Stargate I saw I wasn't all that impressed with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somegeezer (Post 155327)
I really fell in love with O'Neill as a character. Really resonated with me. =] I was sad to see him pushed away near the end of the series. Though Teal'c is cool too. Much like myself, I felt. No real poly, that I remember, though O'Neill and Carter right through was always those moments when you had to shout at the screen "get on with it already!" =P

Laugh :-).

CielDuMatin 09-18-2012 01:36 PM

I am a fan of harder, darker Sci Fi, so for me there are plenty of franchises that stand out above Star Trek and Star Wars. Of the Stargate series, I much preferred SGU, because of the darkness, otherwise I found it simmilar to the other big franchises. I loved Babylon 5 because of the amount of detail in the story, the richness of the characters and the massive story arc. Also a big fan of Farscape for the utterly alien nature of things, including the characters. And, even though I am far from being a Browncoat, I will put my vote in for Firefly for the less heavy end of Sci Fi. Add in Doctor Who to the less heavy mix and I think that's my top list.


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