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-   -   Pondering sexual love & religion (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27867)

MzWiz 09-02-2012 02:19 PM

Pondering sexual love & religion
My family is "service" centric. Priests, nuns, teachers, navel men.... Leaders, yes but always service oriented, grateful to help growth (spiritually, mentally, for man & country....). Everything discussed openly, even sex, but "straight" married sex (the objective being babies or his pleasure, never hers - I'm female)
One or two ventured out, we're gossiped about endlessly, as we aged, we differed off into our own lives, scattering about the country...
We each rebuilt our families, with friends, some having children, some married, all divorced.... Nuclear is the term I suppose.....
Within each of them, I know, is the same thing within me, and I suspect within all of you: The need to be loved in a way we understand

Within the religions I know/read (catholic, judaism, Baha'i, muslim...), all indicate a "requirement" of "worship" (now focus less on the word worship than the sentiment behind; admire, revere, loving actions, etc)...
If we show our love to our "god" (in which ever way you believe in a power/energy), through our actions, our words.....
Why is it so difficult to have a similar relationship on earth with another human....
If we can love "god" and "one"...... (and traditionally, that one + me = 3)
And all love comes from the same place within....
And is, apparently, limitless....
And we're at 3 limitless loves minimum in our traditional equation,
Is it not logical that poly exist, and can exist lovingly & well, for all parties?
Should it not be openly discussed, happily, lovingly.... without shame, scorn or judgement
Should we not worship love in all it's forms?

Yes, yes, I know, logic/paper/math have nothing to do with the insides of a persons emotional being. Yes, yes, I know the emotional "cluster-f$&ks" are endless (excuse my language)....
But if love heals all wounds.....

I'm in la-la-land aren't I.....
Thoughts & feedback welcome :-)

GalaGirl 09-02-2012 03:44 PM

Love is love.

I identify as UU-pagan-catholic. So know I'm going to view things through that filter. There are many ways to look at this. Me?

Yes, poly should be talked about openly. UU Poly is field testing new curriculum for churches called "Love Makes a Family."

Community worship? That's just ONE practice to help nourish spiritual health. There are many other practices. Of the body (sex, yoga, etc), of the mind (meditation, journaling, etc), justice practices, and more. There is no one way to commune and nourish your soul bucket to maintain good spiritual health. If that kind of learning turns you on -- there's the curriculum "Spirit in Practice."

Why is it so difficult to have a similar relationship on earth with another human?
Because while grown ups might look all the same on the outside (ie: adult) -- some people grow UP and some people merely grow OLD. They have not tended to their personal growth and development all the same. Or gotten all their buckets of mind, body, heart, and soul topped up and developed well.

I'm certainly not perfect -- I love to live in the Mind bucket, and I do poorly in the Body bucket!


Is it not logical that poly exist, and can exist lovingly & well, for all parties? Should it not be openly discussed, happily, lovingly.... without shame, scorn or judgement
Sure. But again -- not all partners have tended their buckets of mind, heart, body, and soul healths the same. We help each other to become our best selves if it is a close match up of wants, needs, and limits. We push/pull each other to grow (in a good way) in the Human Simmer.

However it comes with the territory that there are others who are not comfortable with all expressions of loving relationship, and they are not up for owning their own uncomfortable and figuring out why this is being felt. Rather than deal with it inside, they rather YOU (the collective universal you) cut it out (whatever IT is) so they don't have to deal with it at all. Out of sight, out of mind.

Should we not worship love in all it's forms?
Well, I'm pretty accepting. But I only will want to worship/actively practice the forms that turn ME on that I can do. :) I don't mind other people doing whatever turns THEM on, and I can feel happy for them. There are some forms I'll never have -- I'm a woman. I'm not going to be having gay man lovin' any time soon myself, but I'm happy to wish my gay man pals well in their relationships. :)

Love is universal -- it really doesn't matter what the "container" is.

Try not to overthink it too much, but it is good you ask yourself those kinds of questions. I don't know what kind of religious identity you have, or how old you are -- but faith development IS development. It's not a toggle switch of on/off where you have faith/don't have faith. It is the tending of the soul bucket. I do subscribe to James Fowler's idea that there are distinct points in that tending. Scotty McClennan also describes faith development quite well.

You can google both to learn more of their work.

Polynew 11-14-2013 04:21 PM

Love and Spirit
I am fairly new to all this.

I belong to a fellowship of people that encourage you to have your own understanding of God. In the years of travelling that path, it has seemed to me that love is the life energy in and of itself. That this God thing we are all pointing to is love. That it resides here in and through us in this now moment and that when it is shared it increases strength.
Traditional relationships, at least the ones I have been involved in seem to be created around fear, possession...my girlfriend ...my husband. An idea that I must hold on tight because I am afraid there won't be enough love to go around. Bad things happen here with fear and the idea that we can possess one another. Great things happen when we transcend fear and trust the love we need exists within us always and increases when it is shared. God exists there, healing occurs there, beautiful things happen when we learn to reside in love.

london 11-14-2013 08:54 PM

I think religion controls sex rather than love and that is to ensure paternity. That's why they allow polygamy, because you always know who the mother of a baby is, but you cannot know the father.You're encouraged to love everyone, but pick one to breed with and you marry them to show this is the person you've picked. The whole thing is geared towards ensuring the paternity of future children in the only way possible which is to stop women having sex with more than one person. Religion, like me, believes it is important for people to know who their father is, though for slightly different reasons.

Nowadays, we have almost fool proof ways of having sex with multiple men and ensuring paternity, so it's moot. People just seem to have forgotten why it used to be so important and hae got wrapped up in the propaganda used to prevent cuckoos in the nest.

IMHO of course.

Norwegianpoly 11-16-2013 04:13 AM

I have had my own fight with religion for years, lots to to with the way Christians have reacted towards homosexualiy :(. Now I have made peace with God, and joined church again, as well as rekindling my love for/throgh polyamory. :) Why is this not an issue? Well I guess because I am me... I realize that a lot of polyamorous cravings go way back. that was even harder to relize than being attracted to girls. Now I just feel; fine. This is me. This is what I look like, God made me like this. I am not hurting anyone, actually I have taken courses in communication and discussed poly endlessly with people in order to make sense of myself and others. Now that I have taken on a boyfriend I really make an effort to make it work, long-term. In a way, I don't see any difference between my love life an monogamy, there is just more people. Love is love... ;) The most important thing is to be kind. I realize that so much these days. It takes skill to be kind and stay kind :cool:

RiverDwellers 11-21-2013 02:00 AM

Having grown up in an atheist household, but allowed to explore religion to see if I wanted it or not, you would think I would have a family that was open to all kinds of love. Not so, not even in the smallest sense of the word. Thus, I became the black sheep of a family that thinks you should have marriage in only the traditional sense, with people of your own race, income bracket, and definitely of a different sex than you.

I've always believed that humans are capable of so much love and happiness if only we put the pettiness of the outside world away from ourselves.

loveboston 12-06-2013 06:33 PM

It's always sad when I see the word Christian refer to anyone who doesn't obey Christ's primary command that we love one another. Jesus emphasized the importance of forgiveness stating that if we don't forgive He won't forgive us.

Forgiveness is subjective. We don't all agree on what is a mistake and what isn't a mistake that requires forgiveness.

Jesus destroyed the institutionalization of human interaction and left us with a simple principal that is hard to practice.

We are to love each other as much as we love ourselves.

I am both male and female as we all are. I've recently learned that I have to start the process of love by practicing loving self talk with both parts of me.


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