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-   -   The Vandalin Saga... (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2295)

vandalin 03-10-2010 08:34 PM

The Vandalin Saga...
Ok, so I had to come up with some sort of title and that kind of fit. This is to get my story out of the "New to Poly" thread as although I am still new to it, this is an old story that keeps continuing and is fully a life story which I intend to update as necessary.

So if you are not familiar with the backstory or need to find something said previously, here is the link to that topic. http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466

And now to move forward with the new updates and to continue the story of Vandalin, Cajun, and Elric...

vandalin 03-10-2010 08:58 PM

I was back in IL for a few days (in IL still until tomorrow actually) and Elric and I finally found a time to get together and try to just be friends. Our first non-dramarific meeting was for lunch today. I picked him up at work (not even 2 minutes from my hotel) and we went and grabbed food. Luckily he gets an hour for lunch so we didn't feel too rushed.

It went well. I expected some tension and anxiety, at least on my part, and I think he may have had some too but he seems better at hiding it than I do. We talked about a lot of things, nothing too drama inspiring during lunch.

On the way back to work he actually apologized again for having such an insane schedule and making sure I knew that he hadn't been hiding or avoiding me all this time. I knew this, but that little paranoid piece of me wants to say otherwise and he knew this. It is nice that he is trying to reassure me about our friendship and making sure that I am doing alright with where we are at.

I am ok with where we are at, but I'm not ok with where I am at just yet, and I'm not quite sure where he is really at sometimes. He admitted, in not so many words, that he does send mixed signals at times and he doesn't mean to cause me any more heartache, it's more of just a flirty friend nature, which if none of the sexual/romantic aspect were an issue, I would be giving as good as I got. He doesn't mean to "fertilize that seed" of hope/desire/wishful thinking just as I don't mean for it to still be viable. But of course we don't always get what we want and the path to hell/good intentions apply here as well.

Although one thing I thought interesting, and not necessarily as a "hope generator" was that I mentioned that now I have to figure out what it is that I really want in my relationship with Cajun and if/how poly fits. I said that this whole thing has opened up new opportunities and ideas for me. And he agreed, that this has opened up a whole new thought for himself. Being raised Catholic where and relationship outside of marriage was forbidden, this really threw him for a loop but also opened his mind to new ideas even more than it had been. He is still interested in understanding Poly and the life style. Now I know that that does not mean he is interested in implementing the lifestyle into his own relationships and life, but it is nice to know that he doesn't think less of me for trying this life or even trying to include him in it.

We are supposed to get together for lunch again tomorrow (as long as the fates don't get in the way and make him have a working lunch) and again we will probably go out to eat. It is almost like having a safety net by always being in public, but unfortunately we don't feel as free to talk about certain things as we may wish to be and those things get relegated to the car ride back to work which is time restricted. Although I want to get him alone so we can talk about whatever we want, I know and understand why having this safety net is a good idea. It's the next best thing to a chaperon. ;)

So that is where things stand at present. Slightly trembling ground but not shaking so hard that we can't stand on our own two feet. I feel happy that we were able to get together and talk again, but am still sad at the same time. I still feel that we are missing out on something wonderful and good.

I will keep you (and myself) posted here... especially with tomorrow's lunch and my long drive back home...hope that goes well. For now, I rest, as I am feeling a bit drained on all three levels. Thank you for taking interest in this ongoing drama and until next time... TTFN!

vandalin 03-13-2010 10:53 PM

Second lunch didn't go quite as well as first lunch but fate tried to mess with us again. Elric's relief was about 30 minutes + late so he felt he had to hurry as he had lots of work to get done. He also had to leave right after work as he had an interview to go to.

Lunch itself went ok, we stayed at his building which has a small cafe where we could sit, eat and chat. Again nothing too dramatic during lunch. After we walked with me to the doors and we gave each other a big hug. Then I went to give him a good luck kiss, a quick peck really, and ok, I was aiming for his mouth, and he startled turning his head away. We then said goodbye and I went out to my car and he back up to his desk.

Ok, I know some of you may be thinking that was stupid to do, but I really didn't mean anything other than a friendly peck. Why I chose to aim for the lips and not his cheek like I had done before, I don't really know myself. His response though, really hurt. I felt like he didn't trust me as he said he did.

I texted him from the car, apologizing if I made him uncomfortable and explaining my intent. Didn't hear back from. Finally got on the road and drove home through hellish fog. Texted him again when I got home to let him know I got there ok and still hadn't heard back from him. I was afraid I messed up big time this time.

We finally got a hold of each other Friday afternoon and he apologized for not getting back to me, he crashed shortly after his interview and other than waking up for a couple minutes to get into his bed, he slept through the night. Poor guy needs the sleep. He also said that it had nothing to do with the kiss. Since he was still at work, we decided that we would continue the conversation later that night.

We started talking again, basically jumping right into it. He didn't mind the kiss or the intended destination, as long as it was just a peck. Anything more than that would be pushing boundaries...and that's when we started having a great heart to heart discussion about the boundaries and where they lie for him as that has been one of my biggest problems trying to figure out. He apologized for being kinda "wishy washy" which I appreciated immensely.

We were really covering just about everything from his feelings and decision and started with my feelings when things went sour. I was having trouble phrasing a question so that it wasn't pushing or feeling like a "you owe me" type of thing. Lets just say, that's when things got f'd up. The way I phrased it was, "What would you you feel comfortable and agree to granting me, if I were to ask for "one thing" to be granted?" It was a rephrasing of the idea of, "I don't ask for much, will you do this one thing for me?" But I wanted him to have the option of saying he wouldn't be comfortable with anything, plus if there was something he was comfortable with, I wouldn't have to deal with the rejection of asking for things I know he would not agree to.

This is when I started getting hurt. He was taking this question to mean that I didn't care about his feelings and decisions and that I just have to keep pressing the issue. I feel as if I'm trying to cover all the bases, to get rid of any lingering questions and hopes that I have that could germinate into problems later.

The end of the conversation got a bit worse as I was feeling hurt but I didn't want to hurt his feelings just because mine were.
I am sorry. I don't know how else to express it without making it sound like I'm trying to change your mind or make you do something you don't want to do. I don't want it to sound like a "you owe me" kind of thing either. It's hard because, even if it's not true, I am seeing our relationship right now as almost a you getting almost everything you want and I giving up almost everything I want...except for our friendship which I never would want to give up. I'm sorry if it hurts to hear this, but I'm trying to be honest with how I feel now and believe me it hurts to write this too.

If it didn't come out clear in that paragraph, I don't feel like you owe me anything and I don't want you thinking you do either.

I'm sorry, I'm making this hard on us both... my stupid little festering thoughts.

I wish I could just say, Okay! and that's that. it would definitely make my life a hell of a lot easier.

I've been trying so hard the last couple months to just be friends like I said I would...I guess things are just finally coming to a boil inside me and starting to overflow.
What really hurts is that this is how I truly feel. He says stop, I stop. He says go, I go. I've spent so much time and energy trying to make sure he is comfortable with our friendship and I'm walking on eggshells hoping he doesn't take something I say or do wrong and think I'm trying something.

At this point, he had to log off. Stress levels were high and our 2 1/2 hour conversation was coming to a screeching halt. This is the same thing that happened when I wrote that "I'm done" email to him.

Of course I sent him another email. This one trying to explain better what I was trying to express.
I guess the question I was trying to ask would be, is there anything that you would be comfortable with doing. This could range from something as simple as my head on your shoulder while we watched a movie to whatever on the other extreme. I would have understood if you said, “at this time, no.” I was almost expecting that. I honestly don’t know where all of your boundaries are, but I know we were making some headway with defining them before I started opening my big mouth again.

I try to be diplomatic but sometimes it fails me as well…but the other end than how it fails you at times. You try to say just enough and I end up saying too much… or at least too much too fast. I hope you can at least understand where those feelings are coming from, from the hurt and heart-broken girl who fell so deep so fast only to have the rug pulled out from under her time and again. I wanted to tell you how I was feeling without sounding like I was trying to hurt you or cause you pain, without the selfish “you owe me” feel, but I guess I failed at that. Can you at least see why I might be feeling that way, that I feel like I keep giving into what you want or don’t want and getting “nothing” in return, no compromise, no give and take? I put “nothing” in quotes because the one thing I do get, one of the things that I do desperately want to keep, is your friendship, which by continually trying to be honest about how I feel, I seem to put it in jeopardy.
Now I am feeling like just because he has stated his feelings and decision, my feelings don't really matter, that his should put an end to it. When I was trying to be honest with him and with myself I was not trying to change his mind or put pressure on him. Our relationship is not a debate with one side trying to prove the other wrong, but it should be a deliberation where we both feel free to express our opinions and feelings without fearing censure or judgment. Maybe he is not used to that kind of relationship, maybe he is not ready for us to have that kind of friendship and I am just a shoulder and emotion receptacle because sometimes when I try to express my feelings, he makes it sound like I'm trying to change his mind, pressure him, or just plain ignoring his feelings.

I keep going back and forth between depressed, rejected, upset, angry, tired, and just plain done. Maybe it is time to call it quits and work on finding that switch to turn off the feelings of "more" that keep getting me in trouble and increasing the heartache. This is so not good for me and my blood pressure and it is most definitely not good for the baby.

Well, I will let you know what he says regarding the email and whether we finish our conversation or just call that part of our relationship as over and done with... again giving in to his wants and desires... and I dealing with my feelings in silence and almost solitude again.

I really appreciate you guys and this forum. I don't have anyone other than my husband to talk to about these things and it's not every day that your hubby is ok sitting up late holding you while you cry your heart out over another man. Cajun was even ready to "let" me "go all the way" with Elric if that is what we decided to do. With all the mixed messages I was getting, I felt it important to discuss the possibility with Cajun and he really has embraced the whole Poly idea. He even said that if I do start a relationship with Elric, or anyone else, he might even try looking around. I'm very proud of him and so happy to have him with me and in my life. He has been more supportive of me and my problems then I could ever have expected. So I guess one positive thing has come out of this entire debacle of a night.

Ah well, we take the bad with the good as best we can. So now I await any comments or crits or just hugs and voices of support. Thanks for taking the time to read this insanely long post. I guess I just really needed to vent.

MonoVCPHG 03-14-2010 01:52 AM

Thanks "V"....you frustrate the crap out of me but thanks for sharing this :)

vandalin 03-14-2010 02:03 AM

Frustrate the crap out of you? LMAO! How do you think I feel. :)

It was very cathartic to share all of that though, sorry if it went a bit stream of consciousness on y'all.

MonoVCPHG 03-14-2010 02:11 AM

All good Vandalin :)

RickPlus 03-15-2010 12:12 PM

Hi Vandalin, everyone.
I expect that this post won't help at all, but here I go.

It seems to me you're just tormenting yourself. I would drop him and move on. If only our hearts listened to such logic.

When I was in high school I was totally in love with this girl who had no interest in me. I didn't want to pester her to death, so I limited myself to asking her out / suggesting things for us to do to only one thing per month. I think I tempted her a few times, but she always said no. Likely to prevent me from getting my hopes up when she had no interest. In that respect she was kinder than Elric is, I guess.

I spent way too much time thinking about her. Thinking about her made my heart soar. For something like 2.5 years I was IN LOVE.

Then one day I realized it might be possible to not love her.
The next day I realized that I likely didn't love her.
The day after, I just felt tired when I thought of her.

And that was that. I never bothered her again. The thing that impressed me is how suddenly a couple year obsession ended.

Perhaps you should cyber flirt with someone else. Get a tiny touch of NRE going with someone else to distract you?

I offer this advice full knowing that if someone had given me similar advice when I had this obsession with my lady love, I would have agreed with them, and it would have had NO effect on my emotions. You can't command your emotions. But you can command what you do, and I think it is time for you to spend time with others.

I wish you the best, Warm regards, Rick.

Ceoli 03-15-2010 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by vandalin (Post 24027)
Maybe it is time to call it quits and work on finding that switch to turn off the feelings of "more" that keep getting me in trouble and increasing the heartache. This is so not good for me and my blood pressure and it is most definitely not good for the baby.

Feelings don't follow instructions and don't easily get turned off, but hurt feelings do heal. Treat it like you'd treat a wound. Care for it, clean it, give it time to heal.

vandalin 03-15-2010 02:27 PM

Thanks Rick and Ceoli.

Rick, thank you for your story and yes, it does feel that way sometimes. He makes me feel like I'm back in high school sometimes with how anxious I'd get when we do get to spend any time together. But I will wait on the flirting thing. I have a habit of jumping off the deep end (as you can probably see) and I'd hate to hurt someone or get hurt even more. I have thought about trying to find someone else to help take my mind off Elric, but that really wouldn't be fair to the new guy.

Ceoli, you are right. I do have to clean out the wound, cauterize it, and let it heal. It is probably a good thing that I won't be back in IL for a few months (unless something bad happens in the family) so we can start to establish our plutonic friendship again.

Since my last monster post, nothing has happened with Elric. I posted a comment on one of his statuses and he replies, just like nothing is different, but he hasn't tried talking to me yet which is ok. I am hoping to get some sort of reply to my email but if not then I will probably send one more and then stick to the final "I'm done." I don't think I would have brought any of this stuff up with him if we hadn't been having such a good heart to heart and since his defensive response is to go on the offensive, I guess I'm tired of feeling like the bad guy when there really isn't a bad guy.

I will always love Elric and that is fine, but as Mono pointed out in the original starting topic, it's how you need to express your love that matters. It doesn't have to have a physical expression like sex...and I think I may be starting to get that feeling and understanding finally. I know that in time I will be able to love him as just a friend and that hugs and a kiss on the cheek (which he is ok with) will be all I need to express how I feel.

Little Blue Engine thanks you for your support. ;) I think I can I think I can...

MonoVCPHG 03-15-2010 02:31 PM


Originally Posted by vandalin (Post 24116)

Little Blue Engine thanks you for your support. ;) I think I can I think I can...

I know you can :)

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