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-   -   New spouse wants sex with Saudi Virgin (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22860)

Heropsychodream 04-04-2012 06:33 PM

New spouse wants sex with Saudi Virgin
I come to polyamory.com and seek advice for my current situation. I am a married (for 8 months) man who is 24. My wife is 22. We are heterosexual and have no history of "cheating". We have been together now for a little under 3.5 years. We are not religious

As a liberal anthropology grad student, I know that polyamory exists all over the world and no form of relationship is "natural". I let her know from the get-go that I was not jealous in any way and that a sex act was just an act and that it wouldn't bother me. I said this because I am a feminist and don't like the idea of controlling a woman's sexuality. Plus I figured it would never come up anyway; the surest way to have something happen is to ban someone from doing it.

3 weeks ago she asked me if I was really okay with it and said that she was thinking about having sex with random men on the internet. After talking deep into the night I changed my mind and decided that that act (which doesn't disgust me in any way and in fact, done right it might be a turn on) would create a host of other issues that could possibly come up. How much happiness do we stand to gain as a couple from this excursion, what do we risk? She initially railed against my decision but in the end agreed.

This last weekend I went on a work related trip and left her home alone with Ahmed, a saudi student who was renting out our spare room for 5 days until he got situated in the states. I met him and liked him. During my trip however, my wife developed feelings for him and him for her. No sex took place. She now wants to have a sexual relationship with this 19 year old student and claims that she has an insatiable sexual appetite and by not doing it she isn't being "true to herself". She says that she loves me and wants to be with me forever (kids and all that) and that this is a temporary thing to get it out of her system.

The problem is that she maintains this stance while strictly denying my sexual freedom. Over the years in our relationship she has cracked down on my casual internet pornography interest and has forbade me from looking at other women naked or in real life in a sexual way. Masturbation is also taboo (although she masturbates several times a week openly in the evenings). The idea of me being with another woman mortifies her. She knows she is being hypocritical but says she can't help how she feels. She also refuses to be open with me about the messages and conversations she has with this man... I've never asked to read her phone messages before (even though she checks mine at least once a week) so I was shocked to hear that she wouldn't allow me to check hers fully.

So it comes to this; my marriage is still young and I feel like it is going great and so does she but she still wants more. She is pressuring me to make a decision on this fast and they (ahmed and her) are sexting back and forth (I gave her permission but only because I needed to buy some time to seek advice). My stance on an open relationship is that I think it would be sexy to watch another couple or swing with acquaintances but this one sided stuff makes me nervous. This saudi kid is a virgin and thinks he is in love with her because in their culture they get no contact with women.

I am in trouble and need help. Someone respond please!

AnnabelMore 04-04-2012 10:25 PM

You need to lay down the law here and stand up for yourself as a person who respects himself and expects respect from others. You say your marriage is going great but your wife shows no consideration for you as a person in anything you've mentioned! She tries to deny you basic human freedoms (no masturbation??? what is more your own than the right to your own body?) and feels fine with imposing on your privacy (reading your messages) but doesn't think *anything* should apply to her.

I think it was silly of you to put an open marriage on the table if you didn't really want it, but we all make mistakes and considering your wife's indiscriminate application of the idea (random men from the internet? does she intend to get to know them first or is this just about hook-ups?) and disinclination to take your feelings seriously ("railing" at you, really, how is that ok?), I can see why you'd be backpedaling now.

Ask her how she'd feel if you were the one who waited until she was away and then insisted on sex with a houseguest while being super shady about how much had already happened (hiding her communications with him). I assume from what you've said that she wouldn't stand for it. How can she possiblly lack the empathy to realize, then, how hurtful this must be for you? Tell her what a terrible idea this is -- she doesn't really know this young man, he thinks he's in love with her, and it's not fair to anyone to pursue this when you and she aren't yet seeing eye to eye about it.

There are a lot of things that need to change here. It is NOT OK for her to set these many double-standards about sex and then try to force you to be ok with something pretty extreme (sex with a virtual stranger -- why not a friend that you both know and trust??) right away, while hiding things from you! That should be self-evident! Is she really so blinded by her desires that she's lost track of right and wrong or did she just not get the distinction to begin with?

I invite you to invite her here to read my words. Or, of course, you could tell her yourself that the way she's treating you is ridiculous and that she's putting your marriage in serious peril. Stand. Up. For. Yourself.

CielDuMatin 04-05-2012 02:56 AM

I agree with AnnabelMore.

Succinctly, you're not being a feminist, you're being a doormat.

Being in a healthy relationship is about getting your own needs met as well as your partner's. This is not a healthy relationship, from the way you are describing it.

lovefromgirl 04-05-2012 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by Heropsychodream (Post 131433)
This saudi kid is a virgin and thinks he is in love with her because in their culture they get no contact with women.

Setting aside all the one-vagina policy stuff she's pulling on you, please, do not let Ahmed labour under the illusion that your wife loves him. That's cruel, that is, and he's in for a hard fall that might sour him towards women for a long time (so, a loss for the women of his own culture, if/when he goes back). I'm a feminist myself, and I am cringing at the notion that it is at all feminist to use someone else regardless of gender.

RfromRMC 04-05-2012 01:59 PM

Ugh....how many times have I called out someone on their hypocrisy and got the "I know but I can't help how I feel!" spiel. :rolleyes: That statement always comes from a selfish person, in my opinion.

Sorry but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Either both get to have outside relations to their hearts' content---or nobody does. End of story.

If the rules & boundaries ain't equal, it ain't polyamory. It's subjugation. :mad:

Heropsychodream 04-05-2012 05:26 PM


Originally Posted by AnnabelMore (Post 131455)
I invite you to invite her here to read my words. Or, of course, you could tell her yourself that the way she's treating you is ridiculous and that she's putting your marriage in serious peril. Stand. Up. For. Yourself.


Guys (and gals), I gotta say this community rocks:cool:. After some time to think and knowing of your responses she indeed did reach a new understanding. She now accepts pornography, masturbation, or outside flirting on my part as long as it is not hidden. I still don't really want to partake in those activities right away because frankly I don't have the time lol.

I have talked with ahmed (well... texted) and he agreed to the love thing. I have given the okay for texting back and forth until more boundaries can be set up. I will explore the other threads and I'm sure they will offer helpful advice on things I can't even foresee.

So guys, the new question becomes the question of dealing with a virgin. He says that his religion prevents sex before marriage (and I am assuming anal and vaginal here) under death so he won't do it. He is still a guy though and guys... we've been there. When you are in the moment your morals, your mother, or your god won't stand in the way of getting it. I fear that if he has full-blown sex with her he will become FAR too attached.

My question now is have any of you dealt with a virgin in a poly-situation and what can I/we possibly do about it? Are these even valid fears? What would you do?:confused:

lovefromgirl 04-05-2012 11:24 PM

Dude. If it's against his religion in that big a way, make it STOP. Natural instincts be damned; you NEED to keep his best interests at heart. Seducing him is wrong. Letting him be seduced is wrong. I repeat: what will he do after he leaves you and goes home? Stop it with Ahmed. Find him new lodgings, because yours aren't safe.

CielDuMatin 04-06-2012 12:57 AM

If he is telling you that his religion forbids it and he will not do it, why on earth are you utterly ignoring him, disrespecting him and his beliefs and faith and continuing with this?

Congrats on getting a few bones thrown at you with her relaxing some of her one-sided boundaries with you, but this still sounds very much like she is the one that is dictating everything that is going to go on, satisfying her needs and everyone else can just deal with it because she "has to be herself". I appreciate that I don't know all the facts and don't hear the communications that are going on, but this sounds like very self-centered behaviour to me.

In a good, healthy relationship it is still very possible to be free to explore needs without riding roughshod over the beliefs, needs and boundaries of the people you ostensibly care about.

If this comes across as harsh, it is intended to be so, because the more I read, the more disturbed I am at this situation. Tell me to butt out if I am out of line and I will.

nycindie 04-06-2012 01:06 AM

Ahem. Let me share with you a little insight into having sex with someone who is super-religious and from a middle eastern culture. He will not fall in love with your wife if he gets to fuck her. Oh no. He will think of her as the devil, the lowest of low, worth about as much as dirt -- because she tempted him. No matter how much he might say he is a modern young man, when such strict religious beliefs are planted into someone's head, it will be her fault and he will have zero respect for her. Guys with these strong fundamental beliefs will always see how far they can get, but if he can go all the way, he will see himself as victim and your wife as an unscrupulous, cheap whore. He will look at you as less than a man for being married to her and permitting it. The shift in his personality and demeanor will be so fast, it will make your head spin. I have friends that this has happened to, and I've experienced a bit of it myself without even going all the way with someone. Some of them feel no respect for women even if the woman just wants sex. You won't find him pleasant to be around.

Don't let her go there.

Heropsychodream 04-06-2012 05:18 AM


Originally Posted by CielDuMatin (Post 131601)
If he is telling you that his religion forbids it and he will not do it, why on earth are you utterly ignoring him, disrespecting him and his beliefs and faith and continuing with this?

I think the board needs more info on this guy.

This guy is a student here at the school I am a grad student at. He's a freshman. He is a gamer with an extremely good grasp on internet english (In other words, he knows how to herp a derp). He isn't a very good muslim at all (his words) and doesn't pray 5 times a day or believe some of the core tenets of his religion. He still won't eat non-halel meat but that is usually the last thing to go with jews or muslims. I'm an atheist and if I sat him down for 2 hours I could probably (I wouldn't IRL) get him to renounce his religion (in other words, he's on the edge and he really likes our culture here... in fact he wants to stay in the USA).

I fear that he won't care in the end because of this. My wife says that she won't let him do it in a passion situation and I trust her for that. I gotta say that this whole situation has helped us grow a lot as a couple.

Back to the point... I don't really see him as an extremist or a predator. I see him as a confused boy who is probably making a mistake. He says to me that he knows he is being illogical but he can't help feeling attracted to her. He knows it is not in his best interest yet he advances.

*** Also, why in the world does this site log you off if you spend a couple minutes typing a post? Very annoying.:mad:

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