a looong 1st post
I've been meaning to post here for over a year now. I always thought that it would be on a good day - this is not one of them :)
I'm Zack, 34, male, married for 9 years. 12 total in a current relationship. I guess I've always been poly, I just didn't know it was a word. I knew that "you can't love two persons", that that meant that I was lying to myself and don't really love one of them... or that i'm immature and don't know what love is yet. I knew that.. i just never understood It.
Anyhow.. i fell in love with my wife (Sarah) 12 years ago. We have one of the happiest marriages i know of. Over the years we talked many many times about involving ourselves with other people. As years went by, we both grew more and more interested. About 4 years ago we finally decided to give it a try - we wanted to meet a couple that would be decent, opened, caring, funny... "normal" - who wouldn't want just sex on the 1st meeting, but who we could be true friends with.. and talk to.. and if something happens - all the better.
So, after a few disappointments, we met this couple. They had no sexual relationships with anyone but their spouse, both before and after getting married. We found that to be a good thing at the time, because Sarah had (and still has) a lot of problems with recurring yeast infections.. but that's another story :)
They were curious, but in no rush. They were funny, nice, decent, "normal" people. They were exactly like us! they were perfect. We liked them, they liked us :)
So eventually we started to fool around and experiment... and it was pleasant for all.
But soon... some problems started to arise. Sarah was starting to get reluctant... Main reason for that (in her words) was the fact that they (as it turns out) were in a sort of a rush. They had 2 small kids and had little opportunity to "go out"... and they kind of wanted that when they do take the trouble to find the babysitter and get a free night to spend with us - they wanted something (sex) to happen. Sarah started having more and more problems with that.. and our encounters faded away. I didn't mind a lot. I mean, i wanted to continue, but If she didn't, I was OK with that. But I knew that that was not all.. that jealousy had much to do with the reasons too.
We talked about it a lot.. I always had my "theories".. how I don't see the difference between sex and any other group activity. Why is it OK to go to badminton.. or play cards.. or go hiking.. or have coffee.. with anyone - but not sex. Furthermore, what is the difference between "friendship" and "love"? And how come we teach little kids to love everyone, to kiss everyone.. but once we grow up - then suddenly you can only love ONE person, and the rest you can only be friends with.. And all these rules that are pretty contradictory to each other when you start analyzing them. We talked about it from time to time.. and she always agreed with me.. and we laughed about it together.. of contradictions in people around us.. and society in general...
A few years went by in which we weren't seeing anyone else - we went back to being our happy selves :)
But we still talked about it a lot.
We had these friends, Daisy and Aaron. We were always close friends, but we started to hang out more and more with them. A lot more. It was like... they matured towards us.. or we matured towards them.. or something.. but we got along a lot better then before and started to sped more and more time together. They liked to talk about sex and we did so frequently. We always laughed and made all kind of sexually related comments.. We would by Daisy a sexy outfit for her birthday (which she happily tried out in front of us).. and the other way around... We liked them a lot.. they liked us. I loved them.
We told them about our previous.. "experiences"... they were interested.. we were getting more and more horny. We new something will eventually happen :)
So on new years eve (so, a little more than a year ago), we decided to.. go a little further. Nothing extravagant, we were all in one room, we started kissing.. touching.. getting naked.. having sex.. It was amazing. One of the best experiences I ever had. We ever had. I loved them even more.
In the next month or two, we went everywhere together.. and had sexual and sensual experiences everywhere.
I forgot to mention that Daisy was pregnant.. she was due in March.. so it all kind of.. started to fade away. Again, the reasons said out loud were one (Daisy was getting REALLY pregnant and she "shouldn't".. and after that she was a fresh mom and shouldn't.. and after that their lives revolved around the baby and "didn't have time" for anything else).. but she wanted more. I wanted more. Aaron didn't say anything much, but I know that he wanted it all to stop... and so did Sarah. But no one said anything.. We all "played" like we were still all for it, just can't now on the count of Daisy being pregnant.
But i found out I spent a loooot more time communicating with Daisy then before. Everything about her fascinated me... and the other way around. I fell in love. So did she. Aaron and Sarah didn't.
They wanted everything to stop. We didn't. I guess it was too late. Days without Daisy became.. unbearable. We talked over the phone and IM-s every day. We still hang out together, all 4 of us, a few times a week.. but nothing sexual. Sarah and Aaron became more and more clear that they didn't want anything more.. we were getting more and more.. vague. Fights were getting more and more frequent.. between Sarah and me.. and between Aaron and Daisy.
We were getting desperate... eventually, we started seeing each other without Aaron and Sarah knowing.
We were still hanging out, the 4 of us.. but not so frequently. Fights were getting more and more intense. I tried to tell Sarah every day, but she didn't want to hear it. Eventually she found out. And nothing changed. We still fought at home. I tried to stay away from Daisy.. but it was impossible. I loved both of them and didn't want to choose. Daisy loved both of us and didn't want to choose. Aaron didn't want to know anything about it and pretended that nothing was happening. Sarah and i fought constantly - she wanted me to stop.
Things are still pretty much the same, just heated up to infinity.
Sarah started to talk to other people about it in search for comfort.. it didn't come. Everyone told her to just dump me. Daisy and I are getting more and more desperate - we didn't want to loose our spouses, but didn't want to loose each other too. The pressure of having to lie to Aaron is killing us. Killing me - I can only imagine what it does to her.
I don't know what will happen next.
Daisy will tell Aaron today.
The general consensus (what Daisy, Sarah and Me think) is that he'll not be able to go past it... they'll have a HUGE fight and he'll just walk out. I don't know what will happen then. She'll most likely come to me for comfort... and I'll give it to her. Sarah will not like that.. and eventually walk out on me. As the say, the lives of 4 people, not to mention one child, will be ruined. Friends, families in shock and horror, divided.
I hope I'm wrong about all of this. I still hope that by some miracle, the sun will come out in the morning and everything will be OK tomorrow.
well... here it is.
Daisy told Aaron everything last night.
He freaked out... he didn't leave her after all, but thing's aren't good. He's currently kind of blackmailing her with their daughter in a position where he expects her to do everything he wants... and nothing she wants.
I'm hoping emotions will settle down after a while - I can't see how current situation can benefit either of them. I don't care if I never see her again, I just want her... them.. to be happy.
I know everyone around me is blaming me for all the mess... but I know that given the chance, I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat. I can't feel sorry for feeling love.
My wife is sorry... for me.. and for Daisy.. and for Aaron. She doesn't blame me.. or her.. I guess she understands both of us.. and she's kind of sorry she couldn't live with the fact i love someone else like i love her.. and She's just glad It's over.
I'm just not sure anything is.
Hello there, out of lurkdom as it seems.
I am sorry you are hurting but I have to say I kind of don't get it. You say you have been around at least for a year, wanted to post, have probably read alot by now ... why did you cheat? I mean, every second story around here is about cheating and the damage it does. How can you honestly hope for a miracle after you did that? Why did you lie? You say you would do it again. I don't think that you should feel sorry for feeling love but you should feel sorry for betraying the people around you like that. You said she didn't wanted to listen, but if you have something that important to tell, you make someone listen. What were you fighting about if things between you and Daisy were still in the dark?
I am really curious to understand the mechanics behind this dynamic. You seem to be much more reflected as to say something like "I couldn't help it."
Thanks enormously for the reply.
Well.. things weren't that.. simple (as they rarely are) but my post was already getting too long so I skipped a lot of details.
Daisy and I didn't hide our feelings from the start. Actually, not at all.
Sarah and I are pretty close and have.. an honest an open relationship. So when all of this started to happen, I shared everything with her. How much do Daisy and I talk.. daily, the feelings that are evolving.. she knew of every time we met - she even dropped me at her place a few times.. We would hug.. the 3 of us. Or kiss
But when we talked.. the more i explained the "love" part... she just refused to listen. She just couldn't deal with the idea that i loved someone else the same way I love Her. When our "discussions" came to that - we started fighting. Not so much fighting.. but Her constant repeating of the same sentences in no particular order, over and over again.. for hours if needed.. until we both started yelling and screaming.. and when we couldn't take it any more and were too tired of the fighting.. we would talk a little calmer.. where she begun to understood my point of view.. so i could say another couple of things.. and again she started to think about the fact that i would want to love someone else.. and it was too much.. and yelling would continue.. till late at knight where we would both exhausted fall asleep in each other's arms.. coddling.. waking up in the morning with the sun.. happy.. relaxed.. having sex.. drinking coffee, getting ready for work.. like nothing was wrong.. and having it all repeat during the day.
Aaron is more.. rigid. He's not even interested in seeing Daisy's side - he knows it's plain wrong and didn't want to know anything at all. This situation and feelings that manifested was something he felt would best be resolved If no one mentioned or talked about them ever again. He would just yell at Daisy.. hard.. and he's much more determined, loud, cruel and eloquent about that than Sarah...and he was more successful of shutting her up. It's almost impossible to talk to someone.. when they stop any conversation at the beginning.
But we all knew.. all the time. Daisy and I loved it.. loved everything that was happening and wanted to share it with the world. Sarah saw it as a threat and was trying to explain that constantly. Aaron wanted it all to blow over without any talking.
What happened? Hope you are allright?
here's the update..
no, we're not allright.
So, we broke communication... It's been.. really hard on me.. like a drug addict during abstinence crisis. I assured myself it was temporary. OK, i won't get to be with Daisy romantically.. but I miss her immensely as a friend. I miss Aaron too.. and their daughter. So i told myself.. we all need to calm down.. let emotion peeks subside so we can think straight.. re-think our positions.. be more opened, communicate more, create some new arrangements..
I didn't actually DO anything.. but I passively wanted to.. maintain some communication. I thing Daisy did the same. It led to more tension between them.. and us too.
After a month of silence, they contacted us.. wanted to meet us. I was so happy.. I didn't expect things to start cooling down so fast. But.. Aaron said he still can't stand the sight of me (or Daisy), but they were in such a bad condition he's willing to try anything.
It didn't go well. I was the only one willing to talk at all. He was so angry, only thing he was capable of was lashing out at Daisy and me.. Daisy would lash out at him in return.. and was harsh to Sarah. Sarah would lash out at Daisy mostly... and so after about 45 minutes of walking and "talking" we went home.
A month after that, Daisy and Sarah exchanged a few emails.. again, i was happy. They even exchanged a few phone calls. I was home during one of them that lasted about 4 hours and Sarah put her on speaker so I even joined in. I thought the conversation was pleasant, relaxed... but it's aftermath wasn't.
Again a month passed.. this time i contacted Daisy. I think she's even worse than I am. Anyhow, the pattern was repeated. The talk made me relaxed and happy.. but the next few days were agony.
So I think this time it's really "for good". I feel like something died in me. I think we all do. Since there's a good chance I'll never see either of them again, I try to clear my mind of any thought that reaches towards them.. her. It's hard. I can hardly get any work done, I'm not hungry (I've lost like 25 punds), I don't have the energy to do anything. I try to go on with my life without her.. them, be happy, concentrate on other things.. things with Sarah, things around the house, work.. But usually in the evening it catches up with me.
Sarah is great.. but she get's really angry and upset and scared every time she senses something like that.. she feels scared that me feeling this way is a sign I don't love her enough.. and angry because I'm the one that caused all this and how do I dare to feel bad now.. which causes more fighting.. which put's me in even worse mood.. and so on :)
After all this she feels more.. inclined to close off - to get to some "safe point" of only us. She want's us to spend all our time together and alone as much as possible.. to be crazy in love and lust again, she want's to feel she's the only one and she want's to see that devotion in me too. She doesn't want to see me feeling bad, she doesn't want to see me caught up in thoughts, being away..
Anyhow.. we're trying to talk more.. we're seeing a marriage counselor.. I don't know. It takes time, I guess.. I wish time didn't need that much time...
Sorry to hear things are going so badly. You can't really make someone change their mind, especially when they're as dug in as Aaron (or Sarah) is. Sometimes you just have to figure out what you can live with.
I hope the passing of time does bring you some healing.
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