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-   -   More twisty thoughts (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22438)

bastet 03-20-2012 05:02 PM

More twisty thoughts
 
I'm replaying the conversation (over and over of course) with Hubs last night.

LSL (hubs) stated that he isn't interested in dating women who don't have some kind of bisexual or at least bi-curious leaning. His fantasy is that we all get along, cuddle, hang out maybe have sex etc. I'm on board with this yet hesitant since our first foray into the poly world included this very scenario and it went down in flames leaving us licking wounds. Very long story short, we were starry eyed and full of NRE. She wanted to separate us, well mainly him. It didn't go well. Our second attempt ended similarly but with less drama. We took a break from pursuing emotional contact with other people.

Now that we are inching back toward the emotional before the physical I'm more inclined to have this be a solo venture for each of us. While the idea of sharing his girlfriends isn't off the table it's not exactly what I'm looking for.

He knows this, yet still talks about wanting to share. I feel like it's a bit of a double standard wrapped in a package that looks altruistic. If he's always "sharing" and I'm not then he can feel upset with me for wanting connections outside of ours. I don't have issue with him knowing people that are close. I'd even share if the other person was into it. Yet my 'fantasy' leans in the direction of individual connections not necessarily group.

I'd be interested in people's experience with this if any or advice.

Derbylicious 03-20-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bastet (Post 129587)

He knows this, yet still talks about wanting to share. I feel like it's a bit of a double standard wrapped in a package that looks altruistic. If he's always "sharing" and I'm not then he can feel upset with me for wanting connections outside of ours. I don't have issue with him knowing people that are close. I'd even share if the other person was into it. Yet my 'fantasy' leans in the direction of individual connections not necessarily group.

I'd be interested in people's experience with this if any or advice.

It sounds like you're being very wise in letting relationships develop organically. Even if he does always date bisexual women there's no guarantee that there will be an attraction between the 2 of you. If it does happen that's wonderful but why is he trying to fit someone he hasn't met yet into box of what the relationship should look like? Is it that he doesn't really want you having other partners but wants to have other partners himself? If that's the case maybe he should do some self examination to figure out why he feels that what is good for him isn't good for you.

AnnabelMore 03-20-2012 07:46 PM

So, if he dates a girl who's bi but isn't attracted to you, or you're not attracted to her, will he dump her because it doesn't match his fantasy? What if you two *are* into each other and end up forming a romantic relationship and she find she's no longer feeling it with him -- could he handle that?

You guys have fallen for the unicorn hunter fantasy twice, the idea that you can bring a woman into your existing relationship and share her and it will magically work out. As they say, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Do you really want to get fooled three times?

You've wised up to the fact that life and love are complicated and that you can't plan in advance how things will go. Why can't he? I agee with Derby that it sounds like a control issue. If you're sharing *his* partner than you can technically have another lover without him having to actually open up to the scariness of you having an outside involvement. He needs to work on letting go of this, rather than clinging to fantasies that have failed you multiple times.

nycindie 03-20-2012 07:50 PM

Why do so many couples forget that real people are involved when they open up their relationships? It's absolutely maddening.

Anneintherain 03-20-2012 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bastet (Post 129587)
I'm more inclined to have this be a solo venture for each of us. While the idea of sharing his girlfriends isn't off the table it's not exactly what I'm looking for.

He knows this, yet still talks about wanting to share.

From my poly beginnings of long, late night talks where oh...a billion words were said, I figured out that even a specific message that I delivered many times in the same conversation, ended up being lost in translation, with so much other stuff going on.

You might want to reiterate, maybe even via an email, the idea that you want to date separately, just this idea and nothing else. I don't think it's that uncommon to latch onto the part of a conversation that you want to hear and ignoring the rest. As he seems to really be focusing on the "sharing of girlfriends isn't off the table" and not hearing the "I'm more inclined to want to date solo", delivering the message again can't hurt.

I am wondering, how does he respond to you saying you'd rather date solo? If he understands you want to and is OK with that, I'd probably tolerate his ongoing "sharing" fantasy comments, as that will get probably get sorted out soon enough when you two actually ARE dating solo.

bastet 03-21-2012 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derbylicious (Post 129601)
Even if he does always date bisexual women there's no guarantee that there will be an attraction between the 2 of you. If it does happen that's wonderful but why is he trying to fit someone he hasn't met yet into box of what the relationship should look like? Is it that he doesn't really want you having other partners but wants to have other partners himself? If that's the case maybe he should do some self examination to figure out why he feels that what is good for him isn't good for you.

All great questions. I think he is doing that self examination. He is in flux, thinking a lot. That fitting people into a box stuff, shrug. My guess, it's knee jerk in a space that's unfamiliar. Imagining an ideal (or even the worst case scenarios) somehow makes him feel in control. Control is definitely an issue. It's a huge part of what we are trying to let go of. The notion that control is what makes us love or is proof of love.

bastet 03-21-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnabelMore (Post 129610)
So, if he dates a girl who's bi but isn't attracted to you, or you're not attracted to her, will he dump her because it doesn't match his fantasy? What if you two *are* into each other and end up forming a romantic relationship and she find she's no longer feeling it with him -- could he handle that?

He might. Which I find kind of silly. Why lose a connection with someone because they don't fit into your script. He might not though, sparks have a way of making people want to do rewrites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnabelMore (Post 129610)
You guys have fallen for the unicorn hunter fantasy twice, the idea that you can bring a woman into your existing relationship and share her and it will magically work out. As they say, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Do you really want to get fooled three times?

No, I certainly do not want to. It's not only had a negative effect on our relationship but in the first case it was emotionally difficult for the woman. My greatest sorrow in the things we have experienced is losing her, hurting her and my role in that. The shame IS on me. That's exactly the goal in wanting LSL and I to walk our own paths here and if they meet lovely if not, so be it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnabelMore (Post 129610)
You've wised up to the fact that life and love are complicated and that you can't plan in advance how things will go. Why can't he? I agree with Derby that it sounds like a control issue. If you're sharing *his* partner than you can technically have another lover without him having to actually open up to the scariness of you having an outside involvement. He needs to work on letting go of this, rather than clinging to fantasies that have failed you multiple times.

Control agreed all around. It's the crux of it. So much easier said than done rewriting a life of control issues. Yet, worth it. I'm going with that belief. Whatever happens, it's worth it.

bastet 03-21-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycindie (Post 129613)
Why do so many couples forget that real people are involved when they open up their relationships? It's absolutely maddening.

:( I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I didn't consider the women that we were involved with. While not a perfect human, I try to be aware that everyone in a situation has feelings and they won't be the same. We all have our own and have a right to them. I didn't always succeed but come from the belief that it's ok to have different needs, wants etc. I always thought they were real people.

AnnabelMore 03-21-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bastet (Post 129763)
He might. Which I find kind of silly. Why lose a connection with someone because they don't fit into your script. He might not though, sparks have a way of making people want to do rewrites.

One thing for him to consider is the tremendous amount of pressure this puts on you and the other woman to both initiate and then maintain a relationship. Pressure is the enemy of healthy connections. For instance, what if he finds a girl he's crazy about but you're not sure you're that into her... you might find yourself falling into bed with her anyway because you don't want to ruin things for the two of them. Or what if things start out great between the three of you but in time she realizes she's not quiite clicking sexually with you any more... but she's falling for him and she thinks that if she pulls back from you he'll dump her, so she pushes herself to override her feelings and be with you regardless.

There's really nothing good about that expectation/requirement, for anyone involved. And I think it speaks to Nyc's comment about remembering that we're dealing with real people. When bi women are expected to be into each other just because they're bi it's dehumanizing... to you as much as to any potential new partner. If it happens, cool. But if you force it, it's just plain wrong. I know you get that, I'm hoping some of this will help you talk to your bf about it.

bastet 03-21-2012 05:29 PM

oh and btw... thanks. :)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnabelMore (Post 129778)
For instance, what if he finds a girl he's crazy about but you're not sure you're that into her... you might find yourself falling into bed with her anyway because you don't want to ruin things for the two of them. Or what if things start out great between the three of you but in time she realizes she's not quite clicking sexually with you any more... but she's falling for him and she thinks that if she pulls back from you he'll dump her, so she pushes herself to override her feelings and be with you regardless.

Agreed! This is exactly why it feels like figuring out our own individual shit with another person and nurturing that is more important than forcing. I'm gonna keep finding ways to work this into the conversations we have. He is a thoughtful human with a lot of fear, hopefully as this progresses he will see that there is less to fear and more to learn/gain from letting things grow organically. *fingers crossed*


Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnabelMore (Post 129778)
When bi women are expected to be into each other just because they're bi it's dehumanizing... to you as much as to any potential new partner. If it happens, cool. But if you force it, it's just plain wrong. I know you get that, I'm hoping some of this will help you talk to your bf about it.

It does, it always helps to be reminded. It helps me focus so when we do talk it's with a calmer center.

The support people here have provided in just a few short days is a little staggering. My closest friends have been less than kind about a lot of this. It's nice to not be treated like a freak show. Thanks.


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