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-   -   Turnabout (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13416)

Carma 08-13-2011 08:57 PM

I'm married and I have a boyfriend (Butch Cassidy) of 10 months. I've been encouraging Sundance (my husband) to find a girlfriend, too. He wasn't really thrilled about that - he only wanted me. He said he is mono, really. But I thought a girlfriend would help heal his wounded ego, and make him feel like the hottie he truly is. I wanted another girl on my team, so to speak. Someone to help stroke him and make him feel special. Poly has been tough on him, although he does care for Butch very much and he understands my love for him. Sometimes I'm a real bitch. Sometimes I neglect the hell out of him. Sundance deserves better. I felt another girl and a little NRE would take the pressure off of me, make him happier, and maybe even she and I could become nice friends too.

He finally struck up a dalliance with someone. I've been excited about it, happy for him. She fawns all over him and pumps him up, tells him how wonderful he is, etc. But he was kinda lukewarm to the situation, saying he really doesn't feel right, he feels terribly guilty, and while he likes all the attention and the flirting, he just wants to be with me, and the kids. He said it would just remain flirting, that he had no interest in taking it further. But still I encouraged him to carry on. And clearly, she DID want it to go further. And then of course, he kinda did too. And it did.

And I freaked out. :(:o:(:eek::(:o:(

I don't want to share!!!!! He doesn't want to do this, either!!!! Oh mean, this is hard. My ego is huge! I never knew! I never knew how much I loved him, I mean, ugh. I feel like throwing up. He feels terrible.

I can't give Butch up -- I love him, he needs me, he needs Sundance too, we are his best friends and he is hurting right now -- some physical (i.e. LIFE THREATENING health issues) as well as emotional devastation going on for him. But, what I do feel is.... I have GOT to put myself back into my marriage. I love Sundance so much. I can't believe I've let this happen. He has been the most dedicated husband anyone could imagine. He has barely even looked at another girl in nearly 13 years. I am so lucky to have his love.

We made love this morning and it was more passionate than it's been in a loooong time. SLOW. And lots of deep kissing. Lovely! He is working all day today, but when he gets home he's going to be so surprised! I sent all the kids to grandma's, I'm making a perfect dinner, I'm going to have candles lit and sexy music playing and me wearing a slinky something when he walks in that door!

I sent him out there hungry and hurting. I am going to vow not to do that again. I love that man!

nycindie 08-13-2011 09:08 PM

I don't see why you can't have all that with your husband AND your boyfriend, and for your husband to have a girlfriend. Why must it be either/or? You are feeling like you did something wrong, but is that just a cover, a way to handle your jealousy? Poly enabled you to get to where you are now, why toss it because you "don't want to share?" This too shall pass.

What a wonderful life to be able to have such an expanse of love in so many directions!

Carma 08-13-2011 09:58 PM

Thanks ny. :) I'm so lucky to have such good friends here!

I'm not giving up Butch (it sounds like that in my OP). But I have to keep things good with Sundance too. I was trying to shirk my responsibilities. I began to see Sundance as an obligation, and forgot what a joy he is to be married to. He really is. I've been a real jerk to him lately. Actually I suppose part of me knew he'd never go all the way with someone else as long as I was being nice. So it was a bit manipulative of me, and I'm ashamed of myself for that. Well, I got my come-uppance, I guess! "Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it"?

If HE wants to stay on with the girlfriend, I think I'll be ok with it. We can work through that. I do still have some hopes that I will meet her someday. Sundance said we would actually suit each other well as friends. I love that idea. He says she may be open to it, too. He has told her he will never divorce me, that we are best friends and he wants to stay with his family.

I just don't want him going to her because he is being abused and neglected at home. That's what was happening. I feel so bad.

Also, no matter what he was telling her, I suspect she thought it was only a matter of time before he'd get sick of my ill treatment and run to her. Truth be told, I think it would have happened eventually if I hadn't gotten my head out of my ass.

I'm scared to think how close I could have come to that. I never want to lose him, he is so good! And we've got a great thing going.

Now I can go back to fantasizing how nice it would be to have her in our midst, both of us loving her. I know much of their relationship so far has been lust and fucking, but I suspect that LOVE between us all can be so much more rewarding. I'm not excluding sex ;) just saying that I know my husband. He is like me, more than he knew -- sex without love is ok, but with love, it's simply divine.

Ugh, I'm tearing up! Gotta go get ready for our lovely night. Thanks to all of you here on this forum. Poly is crazy, people! But it really can be crazy good. Wow, thanks so much.

Carma 08-15-2011 08:13 PM

Dear Moderators, can you put this into the blog section for me? I'm clueless, but I think that's where this should be -- ?

Had a fantastic weekend with Sundance! Wowza! Never want to leave that man hungry and hurting again.

Butch Cassidy and I regularly escape reality to be together for an hour or two at a time, with no interruptions. It's only once or twice a week, but the exclusivity makes it seem timeless. Whereas, Sundance and I are married, we are together in the same household, raising a family, yet we rarely take the time to close out the rest of the world and focus on each other. We did that Saturday night, and I realized how desperately we needed that! Married people can really get into a rut.

Now that we've recharged our lovelife, poly seems so much more positive and sunny! More love for everyone! :D

nycindie 08-15-2011 08:54 PM


Originally Posted by Carma (Post 97162)
I've been a real jerk to him lately. Actually I suppose part of me knew he'd never go all the way with someone else as long as I was being nice. So it was a bit manipulative of me, and I'm ashamed of myself for that. . . . I just don't want him going to her because he is being abused and neglected at home. That's what was happening. I feel so bad.

Huge revelations, Carma!

Some very wise teachers of mine used to say that feeling bad about something doesn't resolve the issue, because it keeps it around and gives us a reason to do it again. Besides, it's not necessary nor important that you feel bad or ashamed about your actions or behavior. Better that you see it, acknowledge it, and move on, but don't dwell on any "I'm such a bad person for doing that!" kind of thoughts. The truly great thing is that you really saw what you've been doing and owned up to it. People in relationships do this kind of stuff all the time and it's so easy to keep the blinders on and not look at it.

What you wrote here reminds me of a monologue in a play I used to use at auditions. The play is Italian American Reconciliation by John Patrick Shanley (he wrote Moonstruck). The monologue is Janice talking about Huey, her ex-husband, and all the things she used to do to get him to pay attention to her - the real her, not the woman he thought she was. She is beautiful and thought he couldn't see beyond that, and didn't really know who she is inside. So, in the monologue, she explains how she tried to make him see her "for who I really am" by giving him bad food, yelling at him, locking him out of the bedroom, and so on, but he keeps being nice to her and she feels like he just doesn't get it. She really wants to feel closer to him -- so finally she shoots his dog.

It came to my mind because, you know, we really do these things for an outcome that will benefit us and the ones we love. We get impatient for our loved ones to get off their butts and do what we think is best and so, if being nice and supportive doesn't work, our minds switch into some dastardly plot -- but it's all for the greater good, right? So, somewhere inside we feel it makes sense. However, in the play, shooting Huey's dog doesn't make him wake up to how deep she is and definitely pushes him away.

So, it's a very valuable thing that you saw what you were doing and realized it without letting it continue and before dragging it on until things got really strained and bad between you and Sundance. It isn't anything to be ashamed of. You should rejoice, actually, that you have now understood yourself a little deeper, seen things more clearly, and noticed a way that you operate when you feel things aren't going the way you think they should.

This is all important self-growth stuff, and I think it's huge that you realized this track you were heading down and were able to turn it around. That's pretty fucking enlightened behavior, if you ask me.

redpepper 08-16-2011 06:15 AM


Originally Posted by Carma (Post 97412)
Dear Moderators, can you put this into the blog section for me? I'm clueless, but I think that's where this should be -- ?

Done :)

Carma 08-16-2011 03:32 PM

(Thanks RP :) )

And thanks, ncin!!! I'm struggling really bad today.

Sundance was invited to go to a family gathering tonight with the new gf. Moving waaaaaaay too fast for me!!! They just slept together for the first time last Thursday night, now he is meeting her entire family????

Am I being unreasonable????

He says he won't go if it upsets me so much. But he keeps saying how hurt and disappointed she is going to be.

I am a very empathetic person, and I can feel for her. But I have never even met this girl.

Sundance has sort of portrayed me as a completely neglectful wife. While in many ways, I have been, I have not been nearly as bad as he has led her to believe. He tells her I'm with my BF all the time -- when in fact I am only with him one to two hours a week. I spend 3 nights at my grandparents' house, as a caregiver (for which I am being paid). He has told her I am at my boyfriend's house those nights!

I know she thinks she is saving him from a wife who really doesn't love him. And it won't be hard to get him to believe that, with the way I've been withholding affection from him. :( Not always, but I do go in streaks. We definitely have issues, our marriage is not perfect and I am largely to blame. Instead of working through things, I have tended to give up and escape, instead. I encouraged him to do the same. Now here I am, begging him to believe that he is going too fast with this girl, that I can be the wife he needs..... what the hell??? I sound like a psycho!!!

I can understand that he doesn't want to break his word to her. But I believe if she really knew what I am feeling right now, she would not be comfortable with him coming there.

-- Oh, wait, Yes she would. She would think this is my just desserts!

Is it???

I fell in love with Butch. But NOT because Bob was lacking in any way. He has been a devoted, loving husband. We have struggled to obtain the intimacy level that I fantasized us having -- which became a nasty cycle. I read too many books and think I'm so much smarter than my husband, just because he follows his own inner compass and has developed his own coping mechanisms in life. I judged his ways as "wrong." I belittled him and acted superior when his views differed from mine. I have been wretched.:(

Am I wrong for asking him not to go meet her family??? It terrifies me. He has never claimed to be poly, himself. I am afraid he will decide she is the better girl for him. I am not even sure why he has stuck it out with me. He held onto hope when I was pushing him away. I have acted like he had to "earn" my love. Like I am so smart and so lovable and worthy of fighting for. Ha. All I've been is a selfish, egotistical brat.

Incidentally, I am leaving for NYC tomorrow morning! Visiting my daughters. Sundance staying home with our boys.

Minxxa 08-16-2011 03:39 PM

In my honest and humble opinion... the fact that he has lied to her is the biggest red flag. He needs to come clean to her about that before anything goes any further. If she's going to be around she needs to know the honest truth first.

Maybe he was feeling neglected-- that is no excuse. That is something he needed to communicate to YOU, and deal with. And now that you know, it's something the two of you need to work out.

I'd say no to the meeting family and running away in NRE until she has an honest view of your marraige, and understands what's going on first. One missed family dinner isn't a big deal, but all three of you sitting down and making sure things are clear IS.

SNeacail 08-16-2011 04:55 PM

That he would be meeting her family before she meets you doesn't seem right. That says to me, that he isn't planning on staying married. I would say your marriage is in more trouble than you or possibly even both of you realize or will admit to. Take a real hard look at the things he has told the girlfriend, that appear to be lies, and look at it as a BIG RED SIGN that indicates his state of mind.

When my marriage was falling apart, my husband would tell me where he was going, but I didn't always believe him. I resented that he was gone all the time and there was past cheating issues, so my mind would invent all sorts of things that he was doing instead of what he said he was doing, especially if he was late coming home. This was not rational, nor was it reality, but it was a warning sign of big troubles in our marriage.

Don't ignore these things! It looks like you guys have a lot of work ahead of you to repair things between you.

dingedheart 08-16-2011 05:27 PM

How do you know what he has told her for a fact. I has she told you these things? Maybe he didn't actually tell her anything but said he did to get a rise out of you?

lets say he did ....what was his motivation ....pity.???... I'd say this is certainly did damage to his self esteem.

As for going to meet parents or family ...who wrote the book on that protocol. You and I read that to mean serous relationship other see it as meeting someone new....like going to a party and only knowing the host.

When you started out did he stop you from doing similar activities....or did he just have to suck it up? If so remind him of them .....if not then just suck it up.

The red flags others mentioned might be looked at two way ....he continually told you his struggle which was a flag in its self. You encouraged this to take the pressure off ....ease the guilt, etc..... now now you see flags.

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