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-   -   Cheating, lying, excuses, and getting away with stuff (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11378)

serialmonogamist 06-23-2011 04:03 PM

Cheating, lying, excuses, and getting away with stuff
 
Sorry if this shifts the topic of the thread too much but I was wondering what people thought about cheating when people are so good at lying and covering their tracks (or you're so bad at espionage) that they never get caught or confess. I have the idea that this may happen a lot more than people think but it also seems like paranoia to think that. Considering that monogamy is so strictly expected in mainstream culture, it just makes sense to me that people naturally develop strategies for cheating and getting away with it. Or do most people just learn to control themselves and get used to monogamy? How would you know, really?

MonoVCPHG 06-23-2011 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialmonogamist (Post 88109)
Sorry if this shifts the topic of the thread too much but I was wondering what people thought about cheating when people are so good at lying and covering their tracks (or you're so bad at espionage) that they never get caught or confess. I have the idea that this may happen a lot more than people think but it also seems like paranoia to think that. Considering that monogamy is so strictly expected in mainstream culture, it just makes sense to me that people naturally develop strategies for cheating and getting away with it. Or do most people just learn to control themselves and get used to monogamy? How would you know, really?

I would hazard a guess that there are a lot more affairs on the go then we think. People can get very good at them - I was very adept at keeping it a secret. Fake Hotmail accounts, great work cover up stories for being late. You name it, I had it down. The thing was that I became so unhealthy in my relationship that I was looking for a way to get caught doing anything that would promote change I was too cowardly to appraoch head on.

Some people are actually monogamous so there is no need to "control" themsleves. Others are very good at being in control of themselves and simply ignore feelings for people outside there relationship. Discipline is learned and can be done around anything; food, sex and how we express love.

serialmonogamist 06-23-2011 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG (Post 88115)
Some people are actually monogamous so there is no need to "control" themsleves. Others are very good at being in control of themselves and simply ignore feelings for people outside there relationship. Discipline is learned and can be done around anything; food, sex and how we express love.

I have a hard time believing anyone is 100% monogamous. If they were, how could they break up from one person and start a relationship with someone new? I have heard many people say that when they are in a relationship they're just not interested in anyone else, which I can understand, but that doesn't mean the potential for attraction isn't there. Certainly you can love your partner so much that you wouldn't want to risk losing them by falling for someone else, but that doesn't mean that you're not susceptible to temptation (hence the prayer, "lead us not into temptation"). I think some people are just in denial that they're susceptible to temptation, since everyone is ultimately. What you do with the feelings is another story.

redpepper 06-23-2011 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialmonogamist (Post 88109)
people are so good at lying and covering their tracks (or you're so bad at espionage) that they never get caught or confess.

Considering that monogamy is so strictly expected in mainstream culture, it just makes sense to me that people naturally develop strategies for cheating and getting away with it.

Or do most people just learn to control themselves and get used to monogamy? How would you know, really?

I think that we are taught at a very young age to go underground to get our needs met. We want a cookie from the cookie jar, so we sneak one. If parents don't teach children to communicate and ask for what they require; give them the language, then they will learn skills to steel what they need. Its a survival mechanism I think.

This can be re-taught, but it means facing ourselves and our secret desires and needs, our fears too; making oneself vulnerable and being very real. That is hard for most of us to do and makes us not look so great. Its uncomfortable for everyone concerned I think.

Really though, when faced with the option of saving face and losing everything because of cheating or being real, asking for what we need and laying it all out in order to keep what we have; the choice is ours and we tend to end up feeling uncomfortable any way. Not to mention many other feelings (including fear again, which really is the biggest emotion to over come. Embracing fear is our biggest release from everything that hurts us I think).

MonoVCPHG 06-23-2011 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialmonogamist (Post 88140)
I have a hard time believing anyone is 100% monogamous. If they were, how could they break up from one person and start a relationship with someone new? I have heard many people say that when they are in a relationship they're just not interested in anyone else, which I can understand, but that doesn't mean the potential for attraction isn't there. Certainly you can love your partner so much that you wouldn't want to risk losing them by falling for someone else, but that doesn't mean that you're not susceptible to temptation (hence the prayer, "lead us not into temptation"). I think some people are just in denial that they're susceptible to temptation, since everyone is ultimately. What you do with the feelings is another story.

Depends on how you define monogamy. I define it simply as having a singular intimate/romantic connection at a time. Yes people break up but that happens for many reasons. Sometimes they form a new connection..I did that when I was married. Here is the thing though. When I formed that new connection, I was not connected to anyone at that time. I was still married but I had lost my intimate connection. There was no overlap of romantic love.
In order for me to form a new connection I must first lose any existing one or not have one to begin with. In that sense I claim 100% monogamy. Could someone sweep me off my feet with a new connection? Not unless I have a weak one with my current partner. That is why it is so important to check in with myself. If I fail to realise my connection is lost (which happened in the past with my ex) there is an opportunity for another to form. I'm not poly, I don't have multiple intimate/romantic relationships. One person gets all of me in that sense.

serialmonogamist 06-23-2011 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG (Post 88147)
Depends on how you define monogamy. I define it simply as having a singular intimate/romantic connection at a time. Yes people break up but that happens for many reasons. Sometimes they form a new connection..I did that when I was married. Here is the thing though. When I formed that new connection, I was not connected to anyone at that time. I was still married but I had lost my intimate connection. There was no overlap of romantic love.
In order for me to form a new connection I must first lose any existing one or not have one to begin with. In that sense I claim 100% monogamy. Could someone sweep me off my feet with a new connection? Not unless I have a weak one with my current partner. That is why it is so important to check in with myself. If I fail to realise my connection is lost (which happened in the past with my ex) there is an opportunity for another to form. I'm not poly, I don't have multiple intimate/romantic relationships. One person gets all of me in that sense.

Ok, so you do see a situation where a couple has lost romantic intensity but are still committed to staying together and making it work as a monogamist's opportunity to shift focus to a new love interest? I would still call that polyamory because if you have strong feelings of wanting to stay committed to your current partner, even if the spark is missing (temporarily or permanently), then that also involves love. Maybe what you mean to say is that you can't focus on feeling in love with more than one person at a time. But surely you could feel butterflies on a date one day and have that feeling subside when the person doesn't return your messages and then meet someone new that gave you similar feelings again? After going through this kind of thing for a while, you could easily bounce from one love-interest to another - assuming you didn't have any faith in the previous one to stick around for another date. I actually find this a little sad to talk about because it sounds like an abundance of love while really it is a lack of relational continuity.

MonoVCPHG 06-23-2011 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialmonogamist (Post 88156)
Maybe what you mean to say is that you can't focus on feeling in love with more than one person at a time. But surely you could feel butterflies on a date one day and have that feeling subside when the person doesn't return your messages and then meet someone new that gave you similar feelings again? After going through this kind of thing for a while, you could easily bounce from one love-interest to another - assuming you didn't have any faith in the previous one to stick around for another date. .

I just don't feel initmate/romantic love for more than one person at a time period. There are lulls and temporary disconnects and those can be concerning.
As far as butterflies go, of course I could feel those if I wasn't connected to someone and was dating again (I fucking hate dating).

I have never bounced from one love interest to another. I have been in love four times in forty years. I have however used people for sex more times than that. They weren't getting love..they were getting me off.

serialmonogamist 06-23-2011 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG (Post 88161)
(I fucking hate dating).

It's a mixed bag.

MonoVCPHG 06-23-2011 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialmonogamist (Post 88165)
It's a mixed bag.

Yes indeed my friend ;)

AutumnalTone 06-23-2011 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialmonogamist (Post 88140)
I have a hard time believing anyone is 100% monogamous.

I've met two folks who married their childhood sweetheart, that person died years later, and these folk never had another romance until they died. I can attest to the existence of those two--and I may have met others without knowing it.

I was in my early 20s when I met the first one. I even asked him about whether he had any interest in another woman. He reported that he never had and even then, with his wife gone some 15 years, he just didn't find any other woman interesting.

There was nothing obvious about the histories of these two people, either. I imagine you've met folks who are strictly monogamous and simply have no idea as to whether they are or not. Just because you can't conceive of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


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