Dave's Story

Nox

New member
Introduction Post
Followup

I figured I'd move over here as I've been introduced, and if I'm going to bump my own posts, I should do it in a story/blog forum.

The short version is that I've been happily married for almost all of 16 years. The rare times that I haven't it has either been because I was feeling neglected or I felt my wife wasn't truly in love with me as a spouse. I felt more like a roommate, than a husband.

Part of this stems from the fact that my desire for attention, as well as my sex drive, is at least 3 times higher than my wifes. That number was generated by an exercise where we independently listed our wants and how well they were being met, as well as our perceptions of our partner's wants and how well we thought we were meeting them. Quantitatively, I'd have sex every night. She only feels the need about once every couple weeks.

This issue led to us deciding that I could pursue relationships online. It started well over a decade ago. Only real life physical contact was considered off limits. I was interested in more of a friends with benefits situation. I wasn't looking for a girlfriend. In fact, I was pretty opposed to the idea. One relationship was enough work :)

2 years ago, I met T. I knew very quickly that she was dangerous for me. Her qualities complemented my wife's so well, that she filled all the holes I had in my current relationship. T was very anti-online relationship too. She liked to fool around but indicated to me that if things got weird, she'd cut and run. I intentionally downplayed my feeling both for me (I didn't want a relationship) and her.

By Christmas though, we had gotten closer, and I wanted to buy her a present. That triggered a change in T's thinking and she began to look at me more intimately. We still were opposed to any official relationship status, but we talked more openly about our feelings.

Roughly a year later, we had a communication issue while in an open chat room. I got my feelings hurt badly, but as we have always done, we talked about it and got it straight. We also realized that we did want to be officially a couple. Since that time, I've been happier than I can ever remember being.

T and I will see each other in July. Sadly it will only be a few hours. We have discussed having a few days a couple times a year going forward. We want to see how it goes in July though, both for her and I and wife and I.

Things now are really good. The issues that I brought up in my first two threads are largely gone. I'm sure T has her secrets, but she's also including me in what's going on in her life (to an incredible degree.) I haven't felt like she's hiding anything, and I'm more secure so it's not really an issue.

My wife and I are trying to work through renegotiating boundaries on T and I. At first my wife was hurt because I wanted to renegotiate. Last time we checked up, she didn't want to say yes until she was sure she wouldn't be furious with me the next day.

I'm having a tough time understanding her feelings. She doesn't mind me having a sexual relationship with T. She doesn't mind me being in love with T. In discussing boundaries, she's said I can hug her, kiss her, and sleep (literally) with her. Last time we start doing a list, the wife drew the line when I asked, "Can I kiss her neck?" But if that's so important to the wife, why doesn't she want me more often?

Anyway, that's where I'm at. Thanks for the support and help on this forum. It's helped us get this far.
 
Hello! I look forward to reading your journey.

Word of advice: you will never understand a woman's thoughts or feelings. We think they are rational and make plenty of sense. To others, it is like :confused:. Nothing about love or feelings makes sense, though.

As far as the neck kissing thing, that is kind of my thing with my hubby, so I can relate to your wife. Can you ask her why that particular thing is off limits, or what is it about it that makes her uncomfortable? Does she feel like that your thing and that is something the two of you share? Could it be special to her because her neck is one of her spots? It does not have to be rational.

Your sex drives are different, which is a pretty routine thing in relationships. Have you expressed that you desire her more, or do you create windows of opportunity for intimacy to occur? If she is unaware or not picking up on the subtle hints, is there something you can change like show her how much you want her?

I am sure you will work it out, and I am glad things with T have improved since you initially posted. :)

Ry
 
Hello! I look forward to reading your journey.

Word of advice: you will never understand a woman's thoughts or feelings. We think they are rational and make plenty of sense. To others, it is like :confused:. Nothing about love or feelings makes sense, though.

Isn't that the truth ;)


As far as the neck kissing thing, that is kind of my thing with my hubby, so I can relate to your wife. Can you ask her why that particular thing is off limits, or what is it about it that makes her uncomfortable? Does she feel like that your thing and that is something the two of you share? Could it be special to her because her neck is one of her spots? It does not have to be rational.

I don't think there is anything special about that. It was just a way to see where the boundaries were. Hugs? yes. Cuddle? yes. Kiss? yes? kiss on the neck? No.

Your sex drives are different, which is a pretty routine thing in relationships. Have you expressed that you desire her more, or do you create windows of opportunity for intimacy to occur? If she is unaware or not picking up on the subtle hints, is there something you can change like show her how much you want her?

Ha. That discussion would require pages and pages and pages. I've tried everything anyone has ever offered (and there have been a LOT of good ideas.). It just boils down to her sex drive is low, and she doesn't gain pleasure from doing sexual acts just for me. I think a significant part is that she's a severe introvert, and so much internal energy is used taking care of the kids, there's not as much available as I'd like for me.
 
Started to write a woe is me entry, but deleted it.

Now I'm not sure if I want to write it again or pat myself on the back.

I've been feeling a little neglected lately. Life has been busy and I've not been getting the attention I need from the wife. T has not been feeling well, and friends have been busy too.

Then today at lunch, T tells me that she's going to see one of her other guys so she won't be around. She's not sure what he wants. She's thinks he might want exclusive and she doesn't want that. I was able to support her without jealousy, offer to meet her guy, and deal with the lack of attention, at least for today. We'll see how I feel tonight.

So the good news is she was able to tell me she couldn't see me tonight because she will be with someone else. Also, I'm not scared for her and I. The downside is she's going to someone else when I need attention. Still, she's been really amazing with her intimacy and sharing of herself. Though we haven't had a lot of quality time, she's been really good to me. My attention issues are primarily wife related. Which is somewhat ironic being that I'm supposed to be the one with NRE ;)
 
Wife attention went really well :) Got to talk to T briefly, and she said they had a nice conversation. She was also very affectionate to me. A very positive outcome for the evening.
 
Nearly every weekday, I talk to T on im and text, and then we meet up in the evenings on chat. Due to our timezone difference it has always worked well, as she would pursue any other relationships after I needed to retire to bed anyway. With her work schedule, she can stay up later than me both relatively and absolutely. Also, we've always treated it as a secondary relationship. On weekends, we typically spend 3-4 hours on a group chat program.

Recently though, she's been trying to work through another relationship, and I've been really busy, which has made it a little less routine. T has also become extremely important to me. We're coming up on two years of talking to each other, and I'd be shocked if it were less than 2,100 hours of active contact. Not just sitting on the couch holding hands watching tv, but conversation, online sex play, shared experiences, laughter, tears, pain, fears, joy, etc.

Most of what I put here seems to be problems with T. That's kind of the nature of an online forum about problems. I want to take the opportunity, though, to share one of the reasons I love her so. I am in the middle of getting my SCUBA certification, and it is a little nerve wracking. I have been snorkeling twice and both times have had a bit of anxiety. My wife wants to SCUBA though, and I do like the idea, so I'm trying it. I was nervous going in, but T was super supportive and was worried for me the whole time I was offline. I had several empathetic texts and her wanting to know how it went by the time I got my phone back on. I haven't ever had someone that gives me active support, and it's such a good feeling.

I discussed, with K, being able to see T on a more regular basis. Making time for her in the evenings. Visiting her a couple times a year. K has been amenable, with a few reservations that (I think) we worked through. As always, I'll continue to ask.

So, that brings us to last night. We had always discussed what would happen if one of her other bf showed up in a chat room we were in. It almost happened last night. It's a 3d chat room (I'm willing to discuss it via pm, but I don't want it searchable), and we were cuddling, and one of the other people mentioned "why is X inviting me?" T and I both recognized the name, figured he was joining the room, and she bolted up to another spot. Even though I figured it was coming, it hurt. She went to chat with him briefly, but we finished our evening. There wasn't much left though. T had had a really stressful day, and I have an endurance test tonight. We logged off, but then texted a bit and T took the whole situation harder than I did. She felt really guilty. We'll have to talk about it today, but since it's taken two years for it to happen, I don't anticipate it being an issue. I just want to make sure that if we're deciding to schedule more time, it should be our time.

On the other front, K still wants to say no to intimate physical contact in July. However, she said, " am thinking future meetings you mentioned will probably be ok." One of her fears, and it's legitimate, is that I'd be too worn out to do the family vacation proper justice. T and I definitely wouldn't get much sleep.

I'm pretty damn happy right about now.
 
Last edited:
I just want to make sure that if we're deciding to schedule more time, it should be our time.

Ha. You'd think that would have been easy. But no, T freaked out. She thought I was trying to control her. So, she said she couldn't deal with the conversation and avoided me the rest of the day.

I caught up with her pretty late, and we talked. I think it's a reasonable request, but we almost always think our own requests are reasonable. Partly she thought I was telling her she shouldn't have talked to X the night before. I explained that wasn't the case, I was thinking of upcoming Monday when we have a special night planned. She felt "a tiny bit" better, and I didn't want to push. Adding pressure makes her withdraw more, and giving her time to process has always worked before. She texted me a couple hours later and made sure I wasn't freaking out too. I told her, no, not right now, but if we're still doing this Friday, then I will start freaking out.

On the plus side, wife and I talked some more and had a nice albeit short night. She confirmed she's worried about a night with T ruining the rest of the vacation. Then I spent the next hour telling her how much I love K and how wonderful she makes me feel. She's really amazing.

A few weeks ago we did a relationship health check. We made a list of relationship needs, how well they were being fulfilled, and how we thought we were doing for the partner. Where it was interesting is where we thought we were doing much better than the partner though we were. For example, I thought I did a lot of housework. K said it needs improvement. I had no idea she was dissatisfied. Conversely she doesn't do "words of affirmation" hardly ever so I was feeling neglected on that front. Since we did that exercise she's been a LOT more talkative and expressive. I love it.
 
Tonight I should get 4 or 5 hours with T. We've been planning this for months, since last time we got to leave the cams on and fall asleep together. I think things will go well, but I'm nervous. She's in the throes of 2nd NRE (was involved, problems occurred, trying to redifine), or relationship trouble, or something.

That's one of the things that's hard for me. T has said while she stays in a long relationship, the passion dies. I don't know what's that like, but then I've not been in that many long relationships. I'm still exceedingly passionate about K. So I'm always worried that the T's passion for me is on the wane. She says not yet, but how would you tell someone you love that it's not as wonderful as it used to be?
 
Monday went well, but we had some technology issues. So the sexual part wasn't as fun as we would have liked. On the plus side for me, she really took some time to do things that really turn me on. I was very appreciative.

However that night caused a setback with K. She had trouble sleeping. She says it had nothing to do with T, but that I just wasn't in bed. This caused her to rethink my meeting with T in July, as being in a hotel room is going to compound the issue. Previously, we had negotiated into being back before the kids awoke, but now she's like me back before 2am. I can understand her point of view. I'm sad T and I will not get to fall asleep together, but I was getting nervous about that anyway. The sexual tension would have been extreme.

This hasn't changed any later in the year plans. K is still ok with me visiting T again and with no boundaries. T and I have tentative plans.

In other news, we had a big potential drama situation in our online world. One of T's intimate friends joined T and I (along with one of his exes, and two of our friends) in a public room last night. T immediately stopped couple dancing with me. This is the second time in 10 days. That, by itself, doesn't bother me. However, I had to tell her that I have no interest in pretending not to love her. If they are going to join our rooms, and I can't be myself, I'm going to find something else to do. I pretended not to be interested, and I hid our relationship for too long. Having it out in the open has been fun and I have no interest in going back to that. She loved hearing it and feels awful that she's causing me that stress, but isn't sure how she can deal with the risk of losing her other men. (Stop getting involved with people want exclusive!)

We haven't had an opportunity to talk about it for long though. Work is busy for both of us right now.
 
I didn't realize I had left this with such a (minor) cliffhanger.

It actually went a lot of nowhere though. We really haven't had a lot of time together (Saturday and Sunday night was about it) and it didn't crop up again. We did go a long time without occurring even once, so that's unsurprising.

She hasn't mentioned either of the guys in question since the situation. I don't know if it's better, or she just hasn't had time with them either.

She's out on vacation for a week. I'm really curious how that will impact us. I'm guessing it won't, but you never know until it happens. She said, "I hate leaving you" a couple nights ago, but it's good for us. Helps you avoid taking time together for granted. When we started getting super close, it was when I was away for a week and unavailable by phone/text so I set up an email program to send her a little note in the morning and at night each day while I was gone. She was really touched by that action and it brought us closer.

Wife and I haven't discussed July at all, though it's starting to stress me out. I don't like uncertainty, and there's a lot of that right now.

In other news, I've rekindled an online relationship. It's always been more of a FWB situation. I'm worried she might think it's more than that. I may be reading more into it though. That's S, btw. I've also started one with G, but I'm pretty sure this will not be a regular occurrence. G has serious issues with me being married. Sometimes they stop her; sometimes they don't. I haven't figured out why that is.
 
The week without T has been ok. I miss her. We've had a few opportunities to talk, but they've been brief. She's thanked me a lot for keeping in touch. I've tried to text her and send her emails. She's sent me a lot of nice pictures.

K and I had a talk about me meeting T in July. I really needed clarification as I didn't want to be think of loopholes for whatever rules we put in place. Not that I'd try and think my way around things, but the whole thing is so subtle as it is. I can kiss and hug (romantically). She's ok with anything happening in the room that could happen on cam. She asked if I would use condoms, but then didn't ok that I could actually put them to use. So, I want to be clear when the time rolls around.

The other two relationships haven't really gone anywhere. I haven't seen G at all (I sent her a message that she didn't respond to), and S and I have texted, but she and I have both been really busy.
 
In reading your blog, I find myself wondering just how okay your wife is with you seeing and even being intimate with T in July. K seems to be doing a lot of flip flopping. Some days, she seems to be okay with it. Others day, you are left with as you put it--uncertainty that equates to stress. When I am unsure about something, I hesitate for a long time and never give clear answers. (Such as the case of her asking whether or not you would be using condoms but not clearing it up to minimise confusion.) I would leave the issue alone and do a check-in before you leave. She is obviously working through some feelings regarding this meeting and the possibility of intimacy, so let her work through them and ask her to come to you if anything changes. :)

Ry
 
Thank you for your feedback.

You can be sure I'm doing a check-in, but I may have mischaracterized. The only "pull back" she's done was changing my please be back to the hotel time from 6am to 1am. Other than that, she's given me more freedom at every stage.

I think, regarding condoms, that she was just making sure that she's going to be safe if we ever get that far, or if she extends more freedom prior to July. K knows T has had other partners and had them (relatively) recently. And while we both trust T, we don't trust her partners, which means we don't trust T :).

An interesting thing came up in a discussion with T today. She said she "can't lie." At the same time she was saying she will do omission. I know that's just as bad to many people, but still, that makes me feel a lot better. I have learned to be much more secure our relationship. Also, it wasn't about me in this case, so it wasn't like she was trying to assure me of anything either.

Speaking of relationship security, I discovered something in the last week. I have a severe insecurity in knowing how people feel about me. This extends really badly into relationships. It took me until about 18 months ago before I believed K loved me completely. Prior it felt like she could get tired of me and walk away at any time. That she liked me a whole lot, but was missing something. I went through it with T too; always suspecting that it was an act. She was just using me when someone better wasn't around, etc. I trust both of them are being honest about their feelings now, though of course I have twinges. Neither of them ever had such doubts.

I suspected there might be a genetic component, since 1) I've never really had a bad relationship that would cause me to doubt, 2) my parents were always very free with their affection, and 3) my mom also complained about similar insecurities. I asked her about it and she had often doubted her husband loved her which from my perspective was preposterous. My dad never doubted my mother's love.

I'm curious to ask my brother to see if he got it as well.

I'm sure it's not completely genetic, but I'd guess the predisposition is. Anyway, I just found it interesting.
 
Just a quick followup. I got the most wonderful note from T today. The short version is she loves me a whole lot and is very grateful for my understanding and support.

Makes me smile every time I think of it. I'm so lucky to have both of them in my life.
 
I'm lucky to have S in my life too. We started with a sexual based online relationship but quickly realized that there was a very intimate, non-judgemental component to it as well. Very accepting of each others lives, very open to share our own desires.

She also reads here, or at least used to. Hi, S!

I don't know if she read my previous post about her, but I did inquire about our relationship, and she concurred with the FWB, but we both know it's more than that, and less than an "in love" deal, though we do love each other.

Isn't it odd that there aren't more words for love? And then we wonder why we miscommunicate and misunderstand in relationships all the time :)
 
Just a quick note to brag on my wonderful wife. She had a conversation with S (initiated by S, since we will all see each other in 3 weeks), and sent a really nice note to T.

She's an incredible, loving, beautiful woman. I'm so lucky I have her.
 
Ugh. This is the first time that I've had long distance relationship issues.

Works been crappy for T and I both, so we're stressed out and haven't felt like either social or sexy time. What I'd like to do is just curl up with her on the couch, but impossible from 1500 miles away.
 
I met T two years ago, today. I do remember thinking that she could be very dangerous for me during that first meeting. I think we've navigated the danger, but I was correct in knowing I'd care for her deeply.
 
I really feel I let K down today, but it's repairable. Nothing relationship related, but I finally found something she is very interested in - SCUBA diving. Many years ago, she spent 6 months in Venezuela and that was their weekend activity. She is so hard to get to voice her wants and needs, but I re-stumbled on it and you could see the interest in her eyes when I brought it up.

I did have some trepidation. I get a bit of anxiety snorkeling if I can't easily clear my snorkel. But I was willing to try. The first two pool days were fine, though I don't think quickly enough. Enough practice though, and it should become second nature.

I went for my first lake dive on Saturday. Let me tell you... being 20 feet under the water, with 5 foot visibility and nobody in sight isn't the most calming experience. I didn't panic though - almost... but i didnt- went back to the surface, and the assistant trainer brought be back down to the group.

After some time down there, I was calmer. I was able to look around a bit. Mostly a murky green tinge to everything. The platform we were on was covered with slippery algae. I could feel a little pressure on my ears so I went to equalize again, and BAM. I could feel a pop, and then bubbles were coming from my right ear. Ruptured it, so I couldn't finish my training dives.

Got it checked out today. It's a minor tear that should heal in two weeks. So, no long term damage. No hearing loss. And I should be able to dive again. But I have this nagging feeling it will recur :(. It's not the first time I've ripped it. We are supposed to be diving Grand Turk in early September. I have time to do more training dives post vacation. But I'm worried. It's something that I can finally do to meet one of K's desires, and instead I'm broken.

She was really sweet and took good care of me, but I can't help but feel I'm letting her down.
 
Medical update: My ear is still broken. Extra mucinex, ibuprofen, and antibiotics where prescribed.

K had LASIK today. Having her be able to see me for the first time without corrective lenses was incredible. I am so happy for her. She's doing very well. My sister-in-law had forgotten it was scheduled, so was woken up by my text, "K just went in the operating room." Funny for me. Not so much for her.

Relationship(s) update. K has removed any boundaries. She had previous been afraid of how she'd react being by herself while I'm off with T. But to this point it hasn't bothered her at all. We discussed it and came to the conclusion that if she's going to freak out, she'll have some symptoms between now and then. All three of us have reserved the right to back off if someone is getting nervous. I know that should go without saying, but we are all very careful of each other's feelings.

K really amazes me. She so secure in herself and our relationship. There hasn't been anything hard in this so far. There was one night where she felt a little scared, but I assured her nothing has changed for me. Any future plans I have include K.

I would love for the future to include T, but she's pretty unwilling to think that far ahead and she's very independent. She's had a steady BF for 8 years and gets queasy any time he suggests they move in together. It's pretty hard to plan a long term relationship with someone that afraid of commitment so we'll just enjoy what time we have together.

So, just a few weeks now and I'll be with T. Needless to say, I'm pretty excited.
 
Back
Top