Managing STDs in an open relationship

fiftyeight

New member
I posted previously about starting an open relationship with a girl.
I am encountering my second challenge at the moment, and it is related to managing STDs and setting rules about them.

I am quite strict when it comes to these things, and the girl I am in an open relationship with is, I would say, of average carefulness.

She slept with two guys in the past month, we do not have any rules about STDs at this point. When she slept with the first guy I asked if she used protection, if there was any penis-vagina contact with no condom,
I also asked her to talk to the guy and ask him if he has any STDs (I asked her that after they already had sex, she and that guy are friends).
She indeed asked the person and he was apparently a bit offended and she feels it hurt their relationship in some way. He did answer that he has no STDs, but he didn't do any tests apparently and is going to do tests.

The second guy was apparently a short encounter, they were both quite drunk and it lasted only several seconds as far as I understand.
They did use a condom. However, she didn't ask him whether he has STDs.
I asked her to talk to him and ask him whether he has any STDs (again, after they already had sex).
This time she seems quite reluctant to do it, and she doesn't really know when she'll see him again. I asked that she does it in person, though maybe I should take it back. My rationale was that he is less likely to lie when she asks him in person. For example, in SMS messages, he'll have time to think, and then he might say to himself "if I tell her I have STDs, she won't sleep with me again", and then he might lie and tell her he has none (maybe I'm too cynical? but some people are dicks I guess).
She had some opportunities to ask him when she saw him, but forgot to ask him. Now she doesn't really know when she'll see him again, and to tell the truth I am a bit concsious about having sex when I know she slept with a guy and didn't ask him whether he has any STDs.

Ideally, she would ask before she has sex, so she can judge for herself whether she wants to take the risk. I did tell her now that I think it's smarter if she asks before sex, and she seems to be on board.
But I am still thinking what to do about this one occurence (the second guy, whom she didn't ask about STDs), should I just forget about it and take the risk? I mean it was only one encounter and they used a condom. I really don't want to remind her about it a thousand times, it has already been made clear that it is important to me that she asks him. I can just set a line in the sand and say I don't want to have sex until she asks him, but I feel pretty bad witholding sex from her, as I didn't make it clear beforehand that she should ask and she doesn't really deserve being "punished" in this way.
I can also ask her to give me some latest date by which asks him (and have sex until that time).
In my head I am pretty conscious about the whole thing, and wouldn't be enjoying the sex as much.
The main STD I am concerned about is AIDS.

I am just looking for any advice on how to manage these things.
Thanx everyone
 
I wouldn't forget about it and take the risk (I am very risk averse). If I was to be in an open relationship with somebody who had a different attitude towards risk than me, I would use condoms when I had sex with them.

That way I wouldn't have to be worried about constantly reminding my partner to ask about STDs or be worried that any others involved might not know their STD status or might lie about it.

I know that HIV isn't the death sentence that it used to be (at least if you live in the West) but it is still something I'd prefer to take precautions against getting. Particularly when using condoms isn't a massive problem.
 
It's totally your responsibility to look after your own sexual health. In this case, it sounds like your only option is to use barrier protection with your partner. She will take the risks that she is comfortable taking; if her standards of protection are lower than yours, then the only solution is to use condoms, or stop having sex with her. Express your concern for *her* health if you feel strongly about it, but don't leave it up to her to look after your own.
 
I posted previously about starting an open relationship with a girl.
I am encountering my second challenge at the moment, and it is related to managing STDs and setting rules about them.

I am quite strict when it comes to these things, and the girl I am in an open

Good for you :)

relationship with is, I would say, of average carefulness.

Not so good for you. Simple rule, you have two choices when it comes to STDs. if yours and your partners considerations don't align, then all you can do is protect yourself. Period. Obviously that creates two choices.

She slept with two guys in the past month, we do not have any rules about STDs at this point.

Sounds like a good time to start.

When she slept with the first guy I asked if she used protection, if there was any penis-vagina contact with no condom,
I also asked her to talk to the guy and ask him if he has any STDs (I asked her that after they already had sex, she and that guy are friends).
She indeed asked the person and he was apparently a bit offended and she feels it hurt their relationship in some way. He did answer that he has no STDs, but he didn't do any tests apparently and is going to do tests.

Unbelievable that in this day and age someone takes offence. That would be a red flag for me. Its your right to ask her, and its her right to know.

Personally, we screen everyone, by asking for STD testing before p&v. If anyone doesn't like it, they can take a walk.

The second guy was apparently a short encounter, they were both quite drunk and it lasted only several seconds as far as I understand.
They did use a condom. However, she didn't ask him whether he has STDs.
I asked her to talk to him and ask him whether he has any STDs (again, after they already had sex).
This time she seems quite reluctant to do it, and she doesn't really know when she'll see him again. I asked that she does it in person, though maybe I should take it back. My rationale was that he is less likely to lie when she asks him in person. For example, in SMS messages, he'll have time to think, and then he might say to himself "if I tell her I have STDs, she won't sleep with me again", and then he might lie and tell her he has none (maybe I'm too cynical? but some people are dicks I guess).

Then protect yourself, ask her to get tested over the next while (figure out what you are comfortable with).. if she refuses.. well thats another story.

Ideally, she would ask before she has sex, so she can judge for herself whether she wants to take the risk. I did tell her now that I think it's smarter if she asks before sex, and she seems to be on board.
But I am still thinking what to do about this one occurence (the second guy, whom she didn't ask about STDs), should I just forget about it and take the risk? I mean it was only one encounter and they used a condom. I really don't want to remind her about it a thousand times, it has already been made clear that it is important to me that she asks him. I can just set a line in the sand and say I don't want to have sex until she asks him, but I feel pretty bad witholding sex from her, as I didn't make it clear beforehand that she should ask and she doesn't really deserve being "punished" in this way.
I can also ask her to give me some latest date by which asks him (and have sex until that time).
In my head I am pretty conscious about the whole thing, and wouldn't be enjoying the sex as much.
The main STD I am concerned about is AIDS.

I am worried about all STD's.

Boy number 1 - no rules, simply stating concerns without rules is passive aggressive. Clearly state the rules you want to live by
Boy number 2 - you talked about it and I think you laid out the rules more clearly?

Hopefully moving forward you get what you need to feel safe.

BTW Kudos to her for using a condom drunk.. It seems most drunk people become incompetent in the use of their hands. They can full fucktion, but can't figure out how to work a little piece of plastic wrap haha

I am just looking for any advice on how to manage these things.
Thanx everyone

You can only manage yourself :) You just hope people around you respect you enough to align themselves with you, if your expectations are reasonable. Not everyone can align in everything :)
 
I also agree I would use condoms with a partner who was having risky sexual behavior . If you can't trust her to be honest then thats not a risk if be willing to make
 
Did she use a condom with the first guy? If she did, I wouldn't say her behaviour is particularly risky, myself. I mean, test results are some indication of someone's Std status, but the older they are, the less confirmation they give us.

If she didn't use a condom, and/or her risk management continues to cause you anxiety, then use condoms.

Personally, I get tested for chlamydia, gonorrhea, trichimonas, syphilis and hiv every three months. When I was slutting around (with condoms), I increased my testing for chlamydia and gonorrhea to every month.
The Nhs do not routinely test for herpes or hpv unless you fit specific criteria. I've never had symptoms of either but have no idea what my status is in regards to those two. I don't think it's important for me to know. Maybe if I had an immuno compromised partner or metamour, testing would be indicated but otherwise, not really an issue.

My partner and I do not use condoms for anything with each other but do for vaginal and anal sex with others. We don't use barriers for any thing other than those two forms of sex.
 
I can understand it being awkward for some but to a very good degree its something that needs to be asked about.

its not something you want to just go un noticed.

me and my primary are also fairly strict when it comes to STD safety.

mostly on my part cause I know how it is when you do catch one...and its not a fun thing to go through at all for you or your partners.
 
I don't care how unsexy it is....I open up every threesome talk with the fact that we use protection with any outside relationships and that we test, respectively, every six months.
 
Should have mentiond she did use a condom with the first guy.
So both times she did it (with each guy she did it once) she used a condom.

I take it back that HIV is the only thing I am worried about. I do not actually know about all STDs. I've read about Herpes, and it seems to be quite annoying as well, mainly because it is uncurable. So don't feel like contracting that either.

I will use a condom when we do it. Even though Herpes seems to pass by skin-to-skin contact, and from what I've read condoms only reduce the risk by about 50% (see http://medweb.mit.edu/wellness/programs/herpes.html#prevention)

But I guess there's only that much you can do, it seems most people when getting tested for STDs do not conduct a hepres test anyway, so seems you can't really avoid that STD.
 
For me; if they can't show me that every person they have slept with since their last series of full std testing came back has also had full std testing, they aren't going to so much as cuddle with me. Period.
I am ultra-anal retentive about it.

I have herpes. Its a pain in the ass. None, not one single partner in the 23 years since I contracted it, has gotten it (and you quite certainly CAN be tested for it, we are every year). I do not ever have sex with anyone before letting them know i have it. Period.

With potential new partners the topic of safer sex practices comes up before i so much as exchange a kiss.
 
What good does just asking them do? You need to see the papers if you're that worried!

Yes, papers would be much better :)
But asking them still has many advantages. especially since the guys she slept with are both her friends, they have some trust between them, and there's a good chance they will tell the truth, and maybe even work their heads a bit and think whether they are at risk from recent unprotected sex, or maybe they have been noticing some symptoms lately.

But again, i agree seeing papers provides more certainty.
The first guy said he is going to get checked, so hopefully his papers are available soon.

I need to think whether I want to try and set the rule that we have to see papers before sleeping with other people. I agree it is much safer, but I think it might be too much, and prevent us from having spontaneous one night stands and things like that
 
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Absolutely. It will stop the chance of that ever happening. Honestly, condoms and lube are fantastic protection against Hiv. I worked in a Hiv clinic for a bit and I learnt some stuff that I would have never believed. Hiv positive women who have had three kids with their husband who still tests negative and they've never used a condom in years of marriage. All they did is make sure her viral load is low and use heaps of lube.

I thought that if someone stabbed you with a needle that had been used by someone with Hiv, you had a massive chance of contracting the disease, in actuality, it's a tiny chance. As low as 0.4% in some studies.

Condoms do not completely protect against herpes, but they provide some protection.

Basically, I really think condoms are enough. I'm always quite surprised that I've never contracted any of the STDs I get tested for or been symptomatic of the others. I've done some risky stuff in the past.
 
The issue about asking - and I'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed - is that people can have some STDs and not know it. HIV is a good example, although as London pointed out, one of the ones people are least likely to contract. People can be symptomless for years, and even with regular testing, the test can come back with a false negative for approximately 6 months after exposure.

Chlamydia is another one that can be symptomless.

Unlike the UK, testing is not free here in America, and while I applaud London's proactivenss, the same frequency of testing here could be prohibitively expensive. This may prevent some who do test from testing as frequently as is warranted by their sexual habits. So yeah, they have test results in hand. How old is too old? Three months, six months?

For me, sure discuss it - and then use a condom anyway. Some people may think they are doing all of the right things, and still have an STD.
 
Yeah, I used to really take advantage of free testing but even though I don't pay for it, it does still cost my country, as it were. I have recently decided to make sure I have an evidence based rationale for testing. There was a three month window in which neither my partner or I had sex with anyone else so I skipped the Std tests.

My partner being sexually active with others is enough for me to have quarterly testing though. I think I'd feel the same even if he had another relationship that was similarly entangled to ours.
 
I spoke with my insurance company since its new as of January. For me to get it covered I have to go in for my annual exam and have the doc call it "preventative" services. I have a link at work I'll share tomorrow on getting std testing to not be "medical" but "preventive" then there is no cost aside from co-pays.
 
"how old is too old"

We require current testing before intimacy with new partner.
If its "cost prohibitive", they can find a someone else interested in being their partner.
There have been several people who insisted it was too expensive. The result is no sexual relationship. Period.

AND the test doesnt change our requirement to use protection. For the sex door to open, testing required before every new partner but we still use condoms. We also require new tests if any new partner of partners is being added and at 6 month intervals.
If there are no new partners over a 6 month period we agree to testing at one year intervals.
 
For me; if they can't show me that every person they have slept with since their last series of full std testing came back has also had full std testing, they aren't going to so much as cuddle with me. Period.
I am ultra-anal retentive about it.

I have herpes. Its a pain in the ass. None, not one single partner in the 23 years since I contracted it, has gotten it (and you quite certainly CAN be tested for it, we are every year). I do not ever have sex with anyone before letting them know i have it. Period.

With potential new partners the topic of safer sex practices comes up before i so much as exchange a kiss.
Yes, you can be tested for Herpes, but many healthcare providers can be hesitant since a positive can just show exposure to herpes can mean anything from a cold sore to actual genital herpes. Many doctors prefer to test once their are genital lesions they can test.
 
Yes, you can be tested for Herpes, but many healthcare providers can be hesitant since a positive can just show exposure to herpes can mean anything from a cold sore to actual genital herpes. Many doctors prefer to test once their are genital lesions they can test.

But who cares if a healthcare provider is hesitant? As a consumer in charge of your own health, if you want a test, demand it and don't take no for an answer!

There are two strains called HSV1 and HSV2. Docs usually don't test for HSV1 because it is so common (that is the one known mostly as cold/canker sores), but you can request to be tested specifically for HSV2 (usually known as genital herpes, but you can have either one in the mouth or the genitals, and other places like the buttocks or inner thighs). One of the tests for that is called the Western Blot test, and I forget the other one.

Antibody tests can tell the difference between the two types of HSV. Basically, if antibodies are present in the blood, you've been exposed - and "exposure" means you have it. It's not like you can be exposed to herpes and then it goes away. Once exposed to it, the virus lives in nerves near the neck or base of the spine, depending on where it entered the body (mouth or genitals), and migrates to the skin's surface when under stress. It always takes the same route along the nervous system to the skin's surface, so at least you know where the outbreak will always happen, and not have to fear that it's going to spread elsewhere.

The antivirals taken daily to treat it (acyclovir, valacyclovir) work by fooling the virus into thinking it has the amino acids it needs to do its shedding, so if one is diligent about taking their meds, it's pretty close to not having it at all since it won't shed or erupt on the skin, and the only way anyone can get it is by physical contact with an eruption site on your body.
 
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But who cares if a healthcare provider is hesitant? As a consumer in charge of your own health, if you want a test, demand it and don't take no for an answer!

...and if they won't then go elsewhere!

One of the reasons, I believe, for the "hesitation" is the inability to really interpret the results in the absence of clinical symptoms (or a PRIOR negative test!). If you are POS for HSV1 or HSV2 (or both) and have no symptoms...what does that mean exactly? What if both you and your partner(s) SWEAR your have never been with anyone else...AND have never, ever, even had a cold sore?

Is one of you lying? Or did Great Aunt Agnes infect you when she kissed you on the top of your head the day of your christening? Maybe that creepy old guy that kissed your fingertips in an attempt to be "gallant"?...or just the kid who picked his nose before him mom let him push the button on the elevator? (Sorry if I'm tweaking the germophobes or those with OCD...these are possible, not necessarily probably, scenarios...)

At that point you don't even know WHERE you were exposed (lips = cold sores, genitals = genital herpes, cuticle = herpetic whitlow, eye = herpetic keratitis, anywhere else - such as anus/rectum/buttocks/thigh/scalp/ear = "mucocutaneous HSV", etc. etc.)

There are two strains called HSV1 and HSV2. Docs usually don't test for HSV1 because it is so common (that is the one known mostly as cold/canker sores), but you can request to be tested specifically for HSV2 (usually known as genital herpes, but you can have either one in the mouth or the genitals, and other places like the buttocks or inner thighs). One of the tests for that is called the Western Blot test, and I forget the other one.

...the "other one" is generally an ELISA test.

Since both strains can cause the same symptoms in all locations and are suppressed in the same way, I don't really see why someone would choose to test for one and not the other.

Antibody tests can tell the difference between the two types of HSV. Basically, if antibodies are present in the blood, you've been exposed - and "exposure" means you have it. It's not like you can be exposed to herpes and then it goes away.

Well, yes ... and no.

Yes - antibody tests can tell the difference between the two types of HSV - although I'm not sure that it matters, again - both strains can cause the same symptoms in the same locations and are suppressed the same way (yes, each has a "preference" but that means little to the sufferer...)

Depending on the population (and timeframe...and study) you look at 50+ to 90% of people have/or will have (if you like age-based studies) antibodies to HSV-1. Not nearly that many people will claim to remember having a cold sore (or other HSV lesion). Many of those folks are going to be like my husband...he thinks he may have had a cold sore once when he was a kid, maybe. He's never had a cold sore (or any other HSV-like lesion) since I have known him (for the last 2+ decades).

So, my husband has probably been exposed to HSV-1 (since I get cold sores fairly regularly when I am sick or stressed) but perhaps (see comments at end) is less likely to "shed" HSV - since he never gets an active outbreak. But, that doesn't make it impossible, just "less likely".

Once exposed to it, the virus lives in nerves near the neck or base of the spine, depending on where it entered the body (mouth or genitals), and migrates to the skin's surface when under stress. It always takes the same route along the nervous system to the skin's surface, so at least you know where the outbreak will always happen, and not have to fear that it's going to spread elsewhere.

IF you have "recognizable" outbreaks...

While it is true that HSV is unlikely to spread from cervical to sacral ganglia in the same person, over time I think that it is not that uncommon to spread to locally congruent ganglia. (i.e. left side of the lips to right side, or lips to nares (nose)).

The antivirals taken daily to treat it (acyclovir, valacyclovir) work by fooling the virus into thinking it has the amino acids it needs to do its shedding, so if one is diligent about taking their meds, it's pretty close to not having it at all since it won't shed or erupt on the skin, and the only way anyone can get it is by physical contact with an eruption site on your body.

Antivirals DO decrease the risk of both eruptions AND asymptomatic shedding - which decreases, but does not eliminate, the risk of transmission.

However, one can NOT count on the "physical contact with eruption site" as the ONLY WAY anyone can get it! Given the stats - MOST people who are POS for HSV-1 probably got it from a.) someone who knew that they get cold sores but didn't have any symptoms at the time (most of us who get cold sores wouldn't wish them on anyone and avoid kissing/sharing food or drinks/ other intimate activity when we have an outbreak or the pro-drome) OR, and more likely, b.) someone who doesn't know that they have HSV...

A good topic of research: Does someone who tests POS for HSV but has never had an HSV lesion shed virus a.) never, b.) sometimes, c.) often? My guess is a certain percentage of the population are "asymptomatic active shedders"... anyone want to give me a grant? :p

...keep in mind, now, for a good study we would have to swab EVERY dermatome where HSV is common - lips, nose, eyes, genitals, rectum, behind the ears, every finger and between the 4th/5th toes...and a few other random places. Even if we leave out the thoracic and lumbar ganglia (which I'm not entirely convinced we should) that still leaves 24 dermatomes to test (12 on each side)...and how often?...daily? weekly? monthly? randomly?

(For the scientifically inclined, the controls would be at either end of the spectrum - those who test negative and those who test positive and get outbreaks - I'm also curious if there are sero-negative "carriers" and whether HSV+/lesion+ people shed asymptomatically at other sites)

Gotta love science...but there is so much we DON'T know (yet:D)...
 
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