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-   -   Exploring Polyamory instead of Monogamy (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68543)

starlight1 05-06-2015 06:56 PM

One more quick update before my phone date:

I just clarified when Rocky wanted to see me this week (He's coming over tonight, woo hoo!) and he casually dropped in the conversation "Would I like a set of keys to his place, so I can come and go as I like?"

And I was like, "heck yes!!"

Now I am ready; and another internal and happy Squee! :D

I'm going to snog him senseless tonight haha.

Oh on another side note, Daniel's sister's is getting married this summer and is interested in hiring me as an event artist AND his sisters brother is american too. So I get to meet another long term USA ex-pat. Oh how cool is that? We haven't even met yet and we feel such strange kinship with weird overlap in a lot of our lives. I am liking this a lot. I am not holding my breath...much!!

starlight1 05-07-2015 02:01 PM

I didn't make it to the poly meet up on Tuesday because of extenuating circumstances with finances and time energy. Besides I filled up my time with Siren and Gale.

I had a phone date with Lily last night and Daniel unexpectedly called me, And Rocky came by unexpectedly. Lol. Craziness. I was feeling the love. :D

With Lily she told me the meet up was less than desireable because the location was moved and the atmosphere was different than the first two times. This is probably (but not definitely) because IrishCoffee had informed me that the original leaders of the group had asked him and a few others to take over so I imagine there was some rumblings about who was in charge and some internal drama. Lily and I are only three months into the group so we wouldn't know much about the inner workings of the people and how the inner polycules are connected.

I moved my date with Daniel up to Friday night because of the unexpected overnight stay from Rocky. Now that we have each other's keys, and. I have permission to write about him I am all squee inside. He was filled with complex emotions yesterday from sadness to happiness and I could feel the internal walls up unintentionally, so I spent the night pampering him with cuddles, hugs, listening, stomach rub etc. as well as getting caught up with episode four of game of thrones! We had a really enjoyable evenings and I asked a delicate question of if I would be able to visit his place in central when he moves in (the flat he is buying with his sister), and he said yes, but it won't be ready for another three to six months because they are decorating and filling it with new furniture etc. I was quite excited about this because it means I will finally meet his sister! This is huge for me and I am so honoured to meet her. I teased him last night telling him that I let everyone know he's my BF and I am his FWB and we're happy with those labels lol. He can call me giggle box, (new inside joke / nickname) or anything else but it doesn't stop me being starlight1. The same is true for the relationship. I had a husband whose relationship was less desirable kind respectful than the current bf/FWB. So to me the proof is in the pudding. Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words. Either a person is there for you or they aren't, they reach out or they don't, they love and give or they don't. It's easy to spot when you look clearly and without rose coloured glasses or for what you think Should be or ought to be. Just let people be and observe, many times you don't even need to speak, and you can see who they are.

Philosophical rant aside...

So Daniel has stepped up and asked if he could take me out to dinner before the London Eye... I think we might find a cute place in soho or something to eat.
I bought the cutest new dress today to wear on the date and I think both Lily and Rocky will love it on me later. It's way sexy delicate and hot all at once. It's a lace short dress, mid thigh, that fits me like it was tailored to my body. It's light teal colour, and lace long sleeves, a scallop neckline, and white thin belt around the waist. I adore it! I haven't decided what shoes to wear with it but I have a pair of high heels that might possible if I carry a set of flats to walk around in most of the time. Me and heels aren't such good friends yet lol.

I think I will limit myself to three relationships for now. That's quite a lot and right now my needs are very much being met between them all. I do hope I am meeting theirs too. Which is the discussion I plan on having with Lily on Wednesday when we go to see a movie. There's two for one deal on cimema on those days so it will be a perfect evening out. :)

We get along like a house on fire, chatty, chatty, chatty with cuddles, kisses, and fun. She is just super cool that way. I am so lucky to know her! I need to prioritise in the next few weeks going down to hers sometime and spending the night. It's a lovely get away for me, but also, its awesome to see her in her element. I know she's busy right now with her bf, and having one on one time with him as he lives with someone else.

My post is a little all over the place today. I was just thinking that I achieved what I wanted with Rocky and having keys and him telling me he loves me, and I felt and do feel a lot of love, but it's very scary for me right now because it's a big risk to love with actual commitment now. It's amazing and awesome and I am super happy, but I am scared. I am scared I won't be able to give him what he wants down the road (kid) and also that me being poly will eventually push him away...or rather me being authentically me. I have never been accepted for being authentically me. He is the first person in my life to accept me as I am. For that I am so grateful and because of that I have snowballed into a healthier and happier place than I have ever been. It still doesn't stop the fear though! I must re-read "feel the fear and do it anyway" by susan jeffers. And maybe some positive meditation today- just to feel calm about the decision.

After having read "Ethical Slut", "More than two", and "emotional intelligence" this last month ...I have learned a lot about triggers and when my anxiety goes in full blast. Even though I got anxious over receiving his gift, I know that I still want it with all my heart, and I am going to bravely sit with the anxiety until my amagdala calms down and stops seeing moving forward in a relationship...ie, moving closer together, key swapping, etc. as a threat. Two men I have lived with in the past abused me, and my homes growing up were abusive too. No, I won't focus on the past. I can give the past context here for you dear readers but I will not dwell.

I am stronger than my triggers and I am more than the sum of my thoughts and emotions. So I will observe them both instead of react irrationally, in order to process, and show the things at the right place and right time, to give love and not hate.

Yup I went back to philosophical; I guess that soap box is glued to my feet. Ah well lol.

All the same, it's shaping up to be a pretty great turn of events in my life! I am super happy and deeply fulfilled, and filled with love. I will carry this positive energy into court to retrieve my kids and put an end to the cycle of abuse in my life. It's all I can do, is keep fighting for kindness and goodness and a with any luck I'll have a kind just perceptive judge. What else can I do?

starlight1 05-08-2015 06:46 AM

Last night was so scary for me. Many times I have mentioned both London and a village. That's because London is made up of lots of different boroughs, and in them are a huge amount of towns and villages that make up the greater London area outside of central. They have the same bus coverage and system but instead of suburbs that you can get outside large cities it's more like getting a smorgasbord of different atmospheric towns and villages and hamlets. I love it.
Also London has a huge amount of green space, and the area London covers geographically and historically, I'm not sure I could cover that I a lifetime.

For example, where my kids live is two hours from me, but we're both in London. This is not because of traffic either lol. It's just how big in scope this place is!

So last night I went to crash at Rocky's place. It was horrible. I mean not his place, just the journey and then getting locked out of his place because the lock was faulty. And when I paid for a locksmith, the landlords sister called and tried to blame it on me, which wasn't the truth, I hadn't done anything except stand outside using the wrong lock with the correct key. Why keep a key and lock that isn't even functional? I didn't even try the other lock that was faulty lol.
Also the locksmith said it wasn't my fault because the lock was ten years old and not to blame myself. But I was freaking out that Rocky would be super anger and upset, or worse go, no not the drama again.

I realise now after I have calmed down that I was projecting the way the ex husband would have treated me onto Rocky which isn't fair on him. He has never treated me that way. I just was super anxious because of the stalking/harassment from men earlier that evening and because I also had to be in the physical presence of the exhusband the next morning which was very difficult for me in light of current situations.

Rocky did a great job reassuring me on the phone afterwards. I was such an anxious mess. Ugh.

Deep breath!! I made it through ok. God, but I hate drama. I so enjoy peace. Rocky said when he sees me he will give me big hugs and he had the opposite reaction to anger, he was proud of me for handling it and just worried about me because of how upset I was. I told him it was mostly a trigger of losing him on top of already worrying about the trust he placed in me with his keys. But on further analysis I can see it was a lot of different things all at the same time.

I just finished the reward ceremony at the kids school, (one proud momma) and now looking forward to the date tonight. Rosebud looked like no one had bothered to do her hair or even brush it! Ugh at the ex! So I took a comb and hair band out and did it up really quick while telling her I was so proud of her. It was bittersweet because this whole situation is so unfair. Ironically its not poly that is causing the mistrust with me and the girls it's my health condition that I
Is so up and down. Right now it's in a good spell thankfully! So anyway back to rosebud who is the most adorable youngest daughter of mine ever. She's so awesome , she looked so super proud. The school said that she was making lots of friends, really settled and also excelling in maths, reading and writing. Well of course she would be. I taught her a lot of that, I have been their primary carer for the last 9 years, and even if that never becomes the case again I am glad she was able to absorb some good along with the bad. I just wish there was more I could do to prove myself to these people that I am capable, and it seems grossly unfair to discriminate against a mother because of her health, especially when I work so hard for them. I think on it every day, I just don't write about it on here because it breaks my heart.

I am glad I vented that on here and got it out of my system so I am cool as a cucumber for my date tonight and when I see the girls tomorrow, and Rocky on Saturday night, I am one loved busy bee. One if the ways I am moving forward to a healthier place at least mentally is being inclusive and expansive, both in and out of my poly relationships I am working on a solid network of amazing wonderful people in my life so that when/if I do get the girls back in June I will never isolate myself again.

Life is about living and experiences and joy and peace and love. That's what I want for my girls and for me.

starlight1 05-10-2015 08:49 AM

I went on my date with Daniel. This date just didn't workout. It was such a shame as I had no chemistry with him whatsoever.

He was sweet and kind but I felt like I was on a date with a boy and not a man. He also broke his word twice which autmatically makes me lose respect for him. He asked me out to dinner, which I wasn't expecting as I was just expecting to go on a ride on the London eye and that's it. We went to an oriental restaurant and to learn more about each other we got each other's favourite meals. His meal was so boring. I usually order a pad Thai if I can't decide on something else and he ordered panko chicken with generic mild curry and a salad and some rice, all of which was very plain. When asked if he had ever eaten anything else, he said no even though he admitted to coming to this place over ten times in the last five years. :confused:

Then after asking me out to dinner which he said was on him he then didn't have enough money and I had to pay for it. I was like...wtf?? Then I was thinking ŵell that means he won't have enough for the London eye because I had a card that gets me on free...and instead of actually saying he didn't have any we stood in line, me waiting for him to be honest, and he goes, I have a stomach ache, and runs away from the date. I was again like, wtf??:confused:
I was so angry after that, that I stayed in line to go on the London eye by myself because dammit if no one will go with me I will enjoy the pleasure of my own company!!

This was the best decision I could make, because then a Canadian man started a conversation with me and flirting with me. He is named Daren for this blog, and we hit it off like a house on fire!! He is 6' 2" or 6'3" I would guess, with short spikey brown hair. Large watery blue eyes, think a bit like Nicholas Cage. Only make him taller and broader shouldered. He is a programmer and was here on work. I am meeting him up again on the 23/24 of this month and I have been in email contact since that night!

We went to a pub in soho called the whiskey tit, yes it's actually called that , and had drinks while chatting, we also toured around different places in central while I gave him a bit of a guide. I am really starting to learn London finally! It was such a good time that I just couldn't get over how well we connected. It turned my horrid date into an awesome Friday night lol. We reluctantly tore ourselves away at 1am and I went to bed about 230 back at Rocky's place.

This guy earned total respect for me, some of he zany things we did, singing randomly out in the street while doing the can can, Watching street performers and filming each other / taking photos. I helped him tick things off his bucket list like seeing Big Ben, the national museums, trifalgar and Leicester squares, and going to Soho. I also took him to an original 1700 authentic British pub. I convinced him to get random selfies in the red phone booths, and just generally we were mad and hilarious together. I haven't had that much chemistry with a total stranger in many years. If I never meet him again it was still so worth it. As we parted he told me I raised the bar pretty high for the rest of his trip and meeting people lol. I felt incredibly awesome. We shared all our travel stories and I feel like I made a new best friend!

The next morning I popped some paracetamol and coffee and met up with Rocky before heading out to see the girls at 11am. We spent an hour in a park, half of That was before the girls showed up, just me and him walking in nature then the second half was when the girls got there. We all enjoyed playing on zip lines, scalloped swings that fit all four of us, and climbing frames and slides. Rocky, Rosebud, Shootingstar and myself all enjoyed our inner kid, whooping ,playing ,laughing, and generally being very silly!!

Rocky is so freaking good with those girls and we all balance each other out quite nicely, it also makes it easier on me when I can have one on one time with each. It's one of the things I adore about him the most. Of course the girls would gobble him up too!

At midday Rocky had to jet off to work, and I took the girls to the London aquarium. Their favourite part was the giant sea turtles and touching the sting rays who kept poking their nose out of the water. I bought shooting star candy floss on a stick, and rosebud ice cream. For myself I subsisted on coffee and water trying to get rid of my hangover from adventures the night before. We walked along south bank and across the bridge. The day was really gorgeous and we had a fab time until I dropped them off at 5 pm.

I had to drop them off with a friend as Xhusband was being questioned with allegations dealing with court and kids, but the people I had met before and I trusted them. It was a mixed bag of lots of odd things to deal with, but I felt peaceful and happy. I also felt more safe than a long time, and super strong and powerful.

I get a strange sense that the more I date the more it hurts Rockys self esteeme. He said jokingly the other night that he couldn't keep up with me, but this was like a yellow flag to me because when he broke up with me, he said I wasn't moving fast enough. I tried to bring it up, but dropped it in lieu of the fact of his uncles funeral was the next day.

I feel like every time I need to talk about something it's always the wrong time. Both of us were feeling under the weather so I thought lets just have sex, which was touching and endearing, but exhausting for us and we fell asleep straight away enveloped with each other and me with day dreams of being curled up between him and another man. :rolleyes: I have to admit Daren was more than a little bit on my mind. He is a man not a boy in every sense of the word and we had a lot of adult things in common, travel, work ethic, communication, a lot of cultural cross overs from having travelled we got a lot of each others jokes and the intellectual banter lasted all night.

I realised that unless I meet someone again as the same calibre as Rocky or Daren I just can't be bothered dating them. I want to be able to laugh all the way from the bottom of my belly. I know I can make other people do that in person but I haven't found many who do that for me. :) I also need people who can gracefully deal with shit life throws at me, because I have a lot of that in my life, but at the same time I have a really great time with life when not dealing with shitty situations. I also work super hard. I know how to let the shitty stuff stay in their box, and live in the moment being happy and content.

While cuddling rocky last night I sleepily told him I was sorry if I was hurting him at all by being poly, and if I fell in love with another man it wouldn't be one over the other. He said I would just move into friendship with him, I said no, I would love you both equally. I wish I hadn't said the equal part, in retrospect every love I have felt has been unique so what do I mean by equal? He didn't even know how to wrap his head around that one because he considers Lily not real relationship (still!) and I am not sure how to get him to understand they are real and are important to me. All my relationships are. Even a possible LDR with Daren which I am seriously toying with as I will be I America in September for two months and with a real possibility of meeting up as I have friends in Michigan and northern Ohio not too far from where he is.

Rocky said he was fine with it for now because it isn't real for him until he sees it or experiences it himself. So what now, have Lily and Rocky meet??? Or just let it play out naturally. Something about his denial of his own personal boundaries and feelings on this subject is really bothering me. It's like an itch I can't scratch. I don't want to have him hold it all in again for six months and blow up at me again, I need him to know what I am doing, in real actual terms so he makes an informed decision and not buries his head in the sand.

He is just so dang non confrontational about it haha I have to bring up the subjects and I am still trying to figure out my own boundaries in this relationship. I feel a level of let's not rock(y) the boat with me and him the last week since the last big chat we had. Hmm, I am not sure what I thought I would discover writing here, but lightening hasn't struck yet and I'm left feeling on edge and worried.

starlight1 05-10-2015 09:44 AM

I just had my ah-hah moment!!

Ok, I was really confused until I read the poly relationship corner about peoples definitions of Poly.

And even though I have been super clear with Rocky about what I want:
"Loving committed relationship with more than one person", he still doesnt seem to actually get it.

And what is developing with our interactions is a constant need for me to reassure him that he is "the most" special, or "the one" for me. Which he IS special, he is One of the ones I want, but I want more than one.

For him, he says he loves me, and I love him, but it feels flat to my ears, he is not prompting it authentically from himself, and I am saying it authentically but, it feels off right now. And this I think is where it is off. How can he honestly say he loves me authentically if he believes in one true love and all the rest aren't, and i believe in more than one love and love however it takes me.

I wonder if he thinks that I cannot love him and date other people or it isn't "real love"? I know he sees how happy I am right now and has commented on that. I know he would never stop me from having sex, or having relationships with others, but I do think he is having a hard time understanding I want to love more than one person. I know he is supportive of me following my happiness. I just don't know what HE wants...

Maybe for him he could have sex without commitment/love and could understand that from me, but not loving and committing to more than one?? I really need some clarification about this from him, but every time I try to get him to talk about this he avoids it. In email and text I never hear anything back, and in person he directly says, lets talk about it later.

So, now what? Now that I have my ah-hah moment, where is my boundary? The thing I can control? No him, but me? I can be selfish and sleep with someone else, (is it selfis if he agrees, but is emotionally upset by the idea of it??- is that even full agreement then?? What constitutes consent if the person is miserable in my happiness of me being me??) And even though we haven't discussed his feelings, I really WANT TO!! Especially since he knows I am dating other people, and have and will continue to have sex with Lily, and am thinking about it with Achilles and Daren too. I want to Continue kissing, sexing, flirting, and forming bonds with other people and not feel guilt over this because I am worried rocky is pretending to be ok?? It's passive agressive to agree to it, but then harbour resentment that he doesnt air or address. Well maybe thats too strong..not passive agressive, but, avoidant? Disheartening? I want to connect with him truley and deeply. I want to trust his no means no and his yes means yes, then I could make more informed decisions about other relationships..

I'm super senstive and I can tell when he's bottling something big like that, because he's uncomfortable looking at the truth. He gets sick more often, he stops doing hobbies, he goes flat on his interactions with me, he says the prefunctory stuff, like goes through the motions but isn't really happy with me dating others. I am not blind I can see it, he asks the right questions, listens, but its not REAL for him. And when it's the possibility of being real (Like achilles and Daren) he shuts down communication- not intentionally or meanly but in a "I don't really want to deal with this right now" kind of way.

Like men do when their eyes glaze over at women who are shoe shopping..that kind of reaction. lol.

Plus I know he'll keep all these things from other important people in his life, like his best friends, his sister, his family. Since I am not even a factor in those peoples lives, and I knowingly agreed to that. I agreed to it eyes wide open. If it becomes and issue in my own personal bounday and self respect in the future I will walk away. Right now it isnt because I am happily seeing other people too, and keeping my own boundaries with him regarding his pda or relationship talk in front of the girls. It goes two way, if he doesnt want to openly acknowledge me, I dont see any reason to put him in my sphere that way himself. That sounds like tit for tat but it Isn't because before the break up I was open with everyone that he was my be, now I see no point as I have legal reasons and other stuff that out weight my desire to be vulnerable or to give hi something he isn't willing to give to me. That is a boundary of my own. I choose who my kids see as a lover in my life. Period.

What can I do to tease him out of his shell to open up with me? Do I back off focusing on him so much and let him fizzle out if he won't communicate??

I know my own boundary. I want Polyamory, not open relationships. Although I am not adverse to an occasional fab type of situation once I have met the loving relationship quota. So now that I know that, how does those labels fit in the current dynamic with Rocky, and can he come around to my idea of Poly or not? Is that even possible with him? I don't know, and a forum won't tell me..only he will...and if he won't talk about it because of bad timing...maybe I wait to better timing and try again. I've certainly had a lot longer to get to knowing what I want than he has. He's had all of a few weeks to get used to the idea of poly, or what it even is, me, i have been studying for about 5 years now on and off, and properly the last 2-3. I think maybe patience is the answer and knowing my boundaries, and stating that but not rules, and also knowing his boundaries and not agreeing to arbitrary rules unless they are flexible to him getting used to me being poly, and will be reviewed regulary...

Maybe I am doing this all wrong. All this time I'm trying to get Rocky to open up, Rocky to feel, Rocky to express boundaries, Rocky to respect me. Maybe I need to do all these things for myself, and if he gets on board with my own internal change, then we go from there. Is being a secret fwb actually poly? Can I even class him as that??? I don't want to opporate poly that way. I don't want non-monogamy. I don't want cheating. I don't want don't ask don't tell. I want POLY love. So no, I think actually although I am committed to him, if he is not committed to me, then maybe thats not even a real relationship, nonetheless real poly.

starlight1 05-10-2015 10:33 AM

Continued...

So what now? He's still my biggest support network...do I start reaching out and finding people someone else as a committed loving relationship? I have loads of friends and people in the area I admire and respect, and people I can call on now for support and kindness. And I don't want to end it with Rocky, but I need to sit down and plainly speak about my boundaries with Rocky and ask him to explain his. If he refuses to even look at or discuss feelings and boundaries then that is my answer isn't it? I mean I can't AND won't make him do anyhting, and I certainly dont want to. I want him to offer it of himself, but I can bow out gracefully if that's not what he wants with me.

Some of the examples that lead me to believe he feels this way: He is comfortable and happier with rules that state out arbitrary things and events as special to him. I have set these up for him to help him feel more reassured and comfortable. But at the end of the day I feel confined by such rules and needing to worry about these things with him. All this to me says he still oporates in monogamous frame of mine, where it is possession of what we do as a duo, not as individuals that share together. I set these up myself too, which makes me annoyed because I untentionally crossed a personal boundary of my own with out realising until now, and that is, that i put what he needed and felt above me and my happiness. I am not saying there can't be compromise, but I did this without even considering if this would make me happy or not, or be ok with me or not, i just told him yes those are yours. How can you give something that doesnt belong to you yet, or share something you dont know you want to have or keep?

Also, he met me in a super intense place, I was basically learning who I was and what I want big time last year. I didnt know what I wanted. I didnt know how to take care of me, I didnt know how to speak up for myself authentically. He wanted to swoop in and take care of me, then resented me for that same fact. He still has tendancies with that now, but I am aware of them and have very clear boundaries. I dont take money off him ever. He can treat me to dinner or a gift, but if something is clearly my responsibility (The key situation the other night) it is not his to give me money. No matter how inconvient for me, I wont take money off him. Period.

Another one is my food, I used to eat whatever he was happy eating, when we first met, I knew what I liked, but I let those things slide in favour of what he wanted. That was my fault, my lack of boundaries. (I am so obsessed with these right now after never having them before properly!!)

So yesterday he tried to share his omelet with me, and I kept saying no, and he kept pressing me. I gave in an ate one bite. I was annoyed with myself later, and explained it to him and he got bristley like I was blaming him. And I suppose I was partially blaming him. I was angry at him for pushing something I didn't want, and at myself for not sticking to my no. I didn't express that very well at the time, and he said something along the lines of he doesn't offer people his food often and he was trying to be kind because I looked feint. I told him I just hadn't eaten yet but I would figure out what I wanted. So its the "swooping in to rescue" issue again but also not respecting me or thinking I don't know my own body. With a side of "can she make that decision for herself?" thrown in. I am fairly certain these are not things he does conciously because he is kind and generous as I have stated, and I am painting him badly, I am not expounding on the good things that we do do, and do communicate about. For example he knows my feelings and thoughts loud and clear and is most of the time on hand to listen. He is an amazing practical help and devoted to lavishing attention on me whenever I ask. I need to learn a bit more in the listening department myself. He is a very giving person of his time energy and resources. However there has been a subtle shift in this since the break up, before he used to be there anytime i needed him, now he is a lot more careful on what he agrees to and most alarmingly is never picking up his phone. I talked to him about calling him during my date if It went bad, and I called him at 7 pm. When I did he didn't answer or call me back just texted me after ten pm. What if something bad had happened to me? He wouldn't have even known. So, although I don't care that I haven't met his family, I do care that his secrecy means he is not free to authentically be there for me, it also makes me feel passive aggressive, tit for tat, I am not that way at all, I answer his calls promptly or respond with a text explaining briefly why I can't pick up. A lot of those are automated and wouldn't be hard to let someone know what's going on. If he just said, hey I am with family I can't pickup phone right now I would at least feel respected and get it. But seeing as he agreed I could call him then reneged on his word, that makes me trust him less. And makes me sad. He has done that however from the beginning even before we broke up, but it wasn't as often as it is now.

I think I just need to gently push back with humour in a situation like this next time tell him: I am a grown woman I know when I need to eat or not, and what I want to eat. I still have to push back quite a bit on portion sizes, as he likes to have an opinion on how much I eat. I think maybe its alarming for him to see me go from 13.5 stone to 11.5 in a year.

Anyway this edited post is just becoming longer and longer so I am going to stop here for now. I feel much more satisfied I know where I stand at least for now. I also know I need to figure out more where my boundaries are. That is progress for me. And what to address first, mainly the issue of what poly actually IS and what he sees it as. If a dialogue can be started there then hurrah, if not...well I will deal with that if it happens then. Plus something is still bothering me about something he told me awhile back, clearly that he doesn't want a relationship, when I asked what part he doesn't want he didn't know because he is doing all the parts of a relationship with me besides family/friends aspect. So..it's not a relationship to him, because....??????? Yet we cook, talk, make love, laugh, play, date, etc...how is that not a relationship?? I am feeling very confused and mixed signals by this man. He smiles as me and it's warm living and real, when he makes love to me I can feel his whole heart and mind going into it, he strokes me gently and softly like I am the most treasured person on earth. He whispers to me in my ear then that he loves me and I know he is saying things truthfully...he buys me gifts, takes me to dinner, walks in parks, plays with the kids, generally we get on very well, yet still all this isn't a relationship to him and he still doesn't want one with me. I jusT don't get it. When he brings up him dating other women, it's only in context of ending with me, and evolving what we have to friendship. I ask him if he'd like me to set hi up, and talk about him seriously dating others and he goes, oh no no I don't want two women that would be too much work. Lol.
And then I am confused again because surely he will have to release me, or I him, if he doesn't want me long term and does want to date others...simpler to rip the bandaid off then lead someone on???

starlight1 05-12-2015 01:34 AM

The last few days have been resting and recouperating from the crazy intense weekend.

I contemplated doing some work, but I have been off work for the last month, and will be until end of June for personal reasons, so I left it. It will keep. All my work commitments know I am off for a while, and my finances aren't suffering too badly for now.

I will be right as rain for june! Plus I think I might change tracks and do the assistant manager job I got offered last week. I need to follow that up tomorrow.

Today I bought myself take-away and had a date with myself, I felt like I had neglected my relationship with me, for a little while, so I am working on that again. I wrote in my personal journal, I slept, I ate pizza (!! I haven't eaten that in months! :D ) I watched silly tv shows on nowtv, and just generally enjoyed my own company.

I kept in casual conversation with Rocky today, and Daniel contacted me all weekend appologising. I had a long conversation on how we went too fast too soon for me, and that I just wanted to be friends, with the possibility of leaving it open ended in the future should the chemistry change for me. I definitely am fine with more friends. :D He's an overall decent guy, but I just don't want to date him. I asked if he'd be fine being friends for now, and doing activities and such together. He seemed ok with that, and we had a really relaxed chat with no pressure. I explained the no chemistry thing, and that was cool with him too.

My second date with Achilles got moved to Saturday night because of a scheduling conflict on my end with an arts network group meeting I promised to attend. Woops forgot about that! I also said I'd make a short appearance at a vintage evening at the local village. I need to drop off some shoes tomorrow daytime!

I missed my meet up with my friend on sunday because of exhaustion, so when I go down tomorrow I will drop off the painting I did for them.

Life is kinda crazy busy for me, so having these last two days off have been heaven on earth. I really pack it all in when I do things. I got a message from Daren today from Spain, he looked so adorable. I enjoyed getting pictures from him! I am definitely approaching him with an LDR proposal on the 23/24th as he said he makes regular trips to europe with job, and I make usually 1 per year to USA. I REALLY like him, so would be happy for a penpal and occassional FWB type of thing with him. Very cool!

Even if he doesnt want LDR, thats cool, being friends with him would be awesome as well! We had serious chemistry mentally/intellectually/physically etc.

Tomorrow I need to do things like get groceries and actually Leave my house hehe. I had a bed day the last 24 hour... ;) I just wanted to curl up and sleep and sleep. It was awesome! I am now getting ready to go back to sleep after being in bed all day. I also have neglected my housework, so that needs to be done, with some jamming music on.

Tonight I texted flirt with Achilles for a bit, funny how when I put in boundaries about saying, "hey I am not sure I want to date you becase you arent communicating with me", suddenly he communicates. What a thought. I still don't think I'd date him as a potential partner, but I am thinking sex only is fine, we are compatible in that area and mentally but he'd have to up his communication to do anything much else with me...we'll see if that happens. taking it organically! I am going to go out, enjoy his company, see if anything more develops ;) A second date is always a little bit more nerve wracking than the first.

starlight1 05-12-2015 01:50 PM

So I am trying to figure out what I class myself in poly terms, if I have a non-committed 1 year on-off relationship with Rocky. What do I view it as? I know we mutually agreed to leave it ambigious until after my trip to America in september. That's cool, between us, but I still get to choose how I view it. I have previously said he's my primary and we have exchanged keys. But what is a primary and do I see myself structuring poly that way? What if I want equal partners? Hmm so many thoughts....:rolleyes:

It's good to think about all this, because he did break up with me, the possibility of future breakup and rejection is there. Nothing is ever set in stone anyway, and its monogamy that sets rules to try to keep people in that set in stone commitment. The only real commitment I understand is waking up every day and choosing to love that person, choosing to be there for them, and choosing to have their back when they need it.

I know I am more committed than he is, but why try to convince someone to commit who doesn't want to? He has told me he doesn't regret taking a second chance with me, and missed me terribly. The reason, even though we have these issues, htat I keep trying is because he genuinely a decent and caring man, who has grown from a boy to man in the time I have met him. And in the same instance I have doen the same thing, growing from a girl to a woman properly. We both take more responsibility for things in our life now.

What do I value and need in a relationship - and why do I want them?

I guess breaking it down to needs:

I need regular communication-
not just hey how was your day, and not just instigated by me. I want a guy to call me up too, not just me chase them down. I want regular open honest communication about his feelings, thoughts, life, etc.. and him asking me questions about mine.
I want this because I feel lonely with out family around and I consider Rocky family, so I enjoy the regular interaction with somone who is like family and I love. Maybe I can combat this by having more friends (And/or lovers) I do regular stuff with that I consider family? Expanding my family circle? And also being OK with the loneliness.

I need a man who looks after his health-
I work very hard on mine, so I want someone who does the same. this doesnt mean they have to look like a super model, it just means they know what makes them healthy (food/fitness) and they go do it and have fun doing it. :)
Why do i want this? Because I am not attracted long term (via their smell actually) to obese men, they have a particular smell and its offputting to me, as I have a really sensitive nose. Plus I want somone with similar values goals to my own and think it would be fun for us to both do activities together, like gym/climbing/skating etc.

I need a lot of reassurance that I am important in their life:
Pet names, saying I love you (If its got to that point), or just saying they are thinking of me (Possible abandonment issues of my own going on that is projected on them?- possibly but also just kindness and decency for me. I dont need that reassurance EVERY day, but I need it afew times a week, and I wouldn't mind too terribly every day ;)) At the same time I like my autonomy, so I don't mind being reminded and pursued but not to the extent of 5-6 messages a day plus a few voice mails. I have only done that in times of great stress with people I am very close to, like checking in daily on a cancer patient, or at the moment checking in a few times on Rocky after his family member died. I just want to envelope him in a big blanket and snuggle cuddle him and make it all better. Even though I know I can't make it better, I still want to try.
Why do I want this? See first one of loneliness, but also because I enjoy giving and recieving unconditional love. In my past I had very little unconditional love, and this is important to me.

I need a few days notice of a date.
I really dont feel I need to explain this one further. I like a guy who can at least keep track of his own calendar and share with me, or share google calendars that sync so we can plan things in advance.
I want this because its practical and makes less a hash of my own plans, so I am not double booking or backing out of other commitments.

I need honesty:
I need them to be honest with themselves as well as with me. If they want kids, speak up, if they love horror- cool tell me about it. If they like pets or hate classical music..I want to know! I want them to know themselves, and feel comfortable sharing this...because thats super sexy and attractive. I also need the honesty of their actions and words lining up with each other.

I need this because I am working on this so much, so I need to be around people who believe in this because this is something I strive for. After years of social conditioning around liars(And abuse situations where to lying = survival), I respect and adore honesty of ones self and honesty to others pretty much above anything else in a relationship besides communication and freedom/respect of each other. If there is constant lying, it is a weak character. I am very careful and keenly aware of this in myself and working towards this daily to make sure I am not living in fantasy land or lying to myself as a source of survival.

starlight1 05-14-2015 12:29 PM

Well this week so far has been unexpected, yesterday I went on two dates and did my mid-weekly Skype session with girls. The girls had new hair cuts and looked adorable, I talked about their friends and did interactive loom band projects with shooting star, and read books with rosebud. I could squidgy them both all day every day and give them little pills and go why do you have to get soooo big!!!

I went on a first date with a new interest, Leo which blew Achilles and Daniel out of the water. Because he is totally intellectual, funny and I had such an easy going time. It wasn't electricity spark like Achilles, or matey/friendship like Daniel, it was very sensual yet sophisticated and highly intellectual. I am not ruling Achilles out completely unless he forgets to contact me today. I gave him until Thursday night to actually call me. If he doesn't that's that. A guy who can't be bothered to call isn't that into me, and since I'm primarily a sapiosexual it means fuck buddies are difficult for me. I tend to be super picky on whom I actually take into my bed, even when toying with the idea with other people.

Also last night I took Lily to the movies, we saw the adenine movie, can't remember the full name. We had drinks beforehand and we both decided to stop sexual stuff for now even though we still make out and cuddle. She is really worried I will fall for her and get hurt because she's not sure she's poly..., I read between the lines on this as, I am afraid i will fall for you and get hurt because you are very poly and I'm not sure if I am or not. I meant to clarify this statement at the time but then we had to dash to the movie.

She did tell me what she wants though long term. Lily wants to live with someone and be committed and can't seem to get her head around the idea of having that and being poly, so we spoke about for a bit. I respected her decision and left it open ended for her to rejoin with sexual encounters later with no pressure should she change her mind. I have a strong emotional connection with her, and we make each other laugh so strangely I can do casual with her in a way that would otherwise irk me with men. Not sure what that is about with me, but something to explore later mentally...lol.

Ok so Leo:

Physical description: 5'10", Iranian, British and has previously studied and worked in america. Medium skin, thin with a smart studious look, but with a little bit of flair. He has very long dark hair, past his shoulders, clean shaven, high cheekbones, large brown eyes with those beautiful long dark eyelashes that go on for miles. And glasses. He was very appealing to me and he smelled wonderful!!

We haven't specifically made plans for next week but I expect we'll meet up fairly soon. He is finishing his PhD in statistical science, and doing a thesis on sun Ray particles. But his humour, oh his humour, I think I could have orgasmed on his jokes alone! I adore a man who can make me laugh with wit and silliness and wonderfulness. It was a lovely coffee date and I hold higher hopes than previously because he's already called me of his own volition and asked me if I would consider a relationship with him in the future.

He also earned brownie points for saying he was a feminist and we had a lengthy conversation on the different generational waves of femeninsm and which he liked felt he mostly agreed with. I was greatly impressed.

With anyone else I might have been a little weirded out with his forewordness but we got on so well that I am super excited. What is it with me and fantastic men lately?? Between rocky and I becoming a relationship properly again, Leo and Daren I have met recently I am super thrilled and privledged to meet and know amazing decent guys who are also incredibly beautiful men inside and out.

So since this relative stranger could be as brave as that I felt I needed to be brave too. Rocky asked if he could come over this morning and let himself in, exercising his key rights for the first time ever with out knocking on my door. I told him he could let himself in and come upstairs and cuddle me until I woke up. I didn't wake until a cold nearly naked body slid next into mine, that was a shock lol, but I did warm him up. :D

After waking up and playing ;) we talked about my wall and barriers I was feeling emotionally with him. Ie, how I felt when he rejected us as a relationship, and how I heard that as he didn't want me even though I know he wasn't rejecting me, just a relationship. So he said he wanted an open relationship now, and I suggested that to keep it simple for him we wouldn't add in his friends as my friends circle, not to keep it from his friend he can tell them about me if he wants, but that I wasn't too interested in being in their social circles because they are sooo very different from me, and Rocky's friend was one of the primary reasons rocky broke up with me. I know this is sorta red flag stuff if his friends aren't compatible with me, but it's more like I am at really different places than them. They are focusing on marriage and having kids and traditional stuff, and I am focused on career, court (regaining kids) and other things. My life just isn't simple right now and I can't be adding people who we have hardly anything in common. Other examples, they are super into shopping and wealth (which has mostly been inherited) I am into Eco lifestyle and liberal ideals. So....

Rocky's friend is quite opinionated and has known rocky since 12 so they have a long history of a BFF relationship, I don't want to come between that so it's better if I just stay uninvolved period. It's not unlike poly metamour dynamics as rocky values his friends opinion a lot. Basically Rocky needs to stand up to him if we become an out of the closet relationship. For now I live an hour away and do not see them in my daily life so it's a nonissue for me. I imagine it will come up again when rocky moves I his new place which is in the same block of flats that his friend lives in. But this won't be happening for another few months so I have time to address it slowly. I felt proud of myself for tackling the one issue of 'are we a relationship or not?'

That's his issue if he doesn't want to be open about me and I can accept that as long as I feel loved, it's a bit of a grey area with lying, as I know he's let his friends and family know he is dating casually, so it's truth just not all of the truth.

He has still agreed I will meet his sister, and we discussed how coming and going would affect his other areas of life i am not heavily involved in. For example sitting down with his sister in the future and discussing a plan for me having sex over there. I am NOT sneaking in and out like a teenager. Ugh. I made that clear, and if he gives me keys to one place, he might to the new one but it would require discussion with sister, and since it's so new that will have to happen way down the road to get her comfortable with me first. Plus he needs to really feel like it's his place first before giving me a key.There's a lot more to consider with that.

In the meantime, I did discuss my hard limit of sex with other people being my decision. He only requested to meet anyone I become sexual with in the future as a relationship. I am sort of ok with this, I need to figure out why he is requesting this of Leo and none of the other men, and why he never requested this of Lily but does of Leo?? Double standard moment maybe, but I am going to trust that his motives are pure, but I do have to point out no one would want to enter a relationship where they are vetted by someone else. I certainly wouldn't want to.

I am not sure I agree with before, even though again I shot myself in my own foot by blurting it out with out thinking post sex lol. I really need to take more time to think before I speak sometimes. My overriding desire to please Rocky and make him feel secure sometimes means I say stupid things even though he was being totally reasonable. He was saying as long as I am not choosing a jerk and I am staying safe and responsible he was cool with it. But then we had hot sex. The we are connected, we resolved issues, he wants to claim me sex, that was incredibly lovely. Hehe. I have a lot to learn with communication every day. I signed myself up to six sessions of therapy to work on this starting Monday. :o

After that we went to breakfast at a pub and laughed and talked. We had a really relaxed fun time and we talked about kimchicuddles.com which I had redirected Rocky to a few days before as a sort of visual artsy way to introduce some polyamory ideas and problems in a causal yet funny format. Then he went off and I am up in London in meetings today. At 7 I am going to the poly cocktails, to let off steam, and will possibly see Redford there though we aren't going together. I'd like to be friends with Redford but I am just not attracted to him enough to take it to the next level, the age difference kind of freaks me out, but I am not ruling him out completely just yet. I might be able to do some activities with him at least. And I will be meeting up with his other partner in June which I have more chemistry with. ;) she's a psychologist long distance so if anything happens it would be way casual.
I am also meeting Lily's main squeeze Joe, so that will be good! I will get to talk to him briefly and see how he is.

So yes life is going great and I am learning all this as I go along. Thank god for all the references, books, blogs, and comics...they help me so much!! :)

starlight1 05-15-2015 10:21 AM

Yesterday the weather went from spring warmth to cold wet winter again for a day!! So cold!

I was dressed in boots sweater and jacket but now so appropriate for the rain and wind. So I skipped out on cocktails and went home and passed out.

I am still having feel good buzz and feelings with rocky. I am happy with the boundaries we have right now and I feel amazing he said he enthusiastically wants a relationship now when before he didn't. What a 180!

He also after both of us opening up and being vulnerable is back in regular contact, he is messaging me, and asked if he could call me tonight. Plus he's texting and saying I love you freely again. I think this poly thing has been really helpful and I think it's me who struggles with trust and neediness and negative habits in relationships that are freed up within the format of poly, in that I am not lying to myself about my needs, or doing this to please him. I am being authentically me. Also a it's easier to spot when I am lying to myself because I check in with a few people about an issue, etc, so it becomes apparent my cognitive dissonance. I know this may seem a strange thing to struggle with, but really it's more to do with the subconscious way I interact romantically with men because of years of abuse. Even though I fixed my triggers, I still haven't stopped being a bit of a people pleaser. That's why I need to write here and check in with friends and multiple partners that I am not rationalising (lying to self) about a decision.

And this year trust myself more as I move closer to being authentically me.

I feel very close to Rocky now and that love gives me; I am wearing a goofy smile today. I am one lucky gal. :) and I feel he answered a lot of my previous questions too about what he wants so things are very much more clear in my mind now.

I know and he knows neither one-off us are perfect. Yesterday was a big breakthrough for him too on rebuilding trust.

When we went to breakfast it was the first time he had been back to the town when I had walked out on him in the middle of an argument in December/January. I was able to acknowledge his vulnerability and feelings and authentically say it's ok I forgive you, and him to look me in the eye and say sorry and he forgives me too.

We agreed to consider it forgiven and forgotten and life is good :) I felt such peace in that moment. I hadn't even thought that taking him there would remind him as I've been there many times since for shopping and what not. And I could see he felt very peaceful too.

I also spoke briefly how he is straddling two very different worlds and I am worried for him. He said, it's his choice as he always wanted to explore when younger and couldn't. (Due to health reasons), unfortunately we didn't get to chat more because I had to leave then. But yeah that guy has some big decisions to make in the future.but I am glad that so far they include me :) but I feel a bit like I get it, used to live Mormon and be bi, I was straddling two different worlds for awhile, and eventually settled into my own lifestyle choices but it didn't happen overnight and it was very confusing. I do empathise with where he is at.

As for Leo, we had a juicy phone conversation together last night that I really enjoyed! It's a little difficult on the phone because of accent differences, but we are super great in person. I experienced my very first phone sex conversation where I participated, and listened to what Leo wanted to do to me. That was awesome! Needless to say after that I was very satisfied and sleepy. Between rocky twice in the morning and Leo mentally that night, it was super fun day hehe. I hope we do get to meet up soon but I predict it will be a few weeks a month for awhile because of where we both live and the easiest place to see each other is in central london. It would be quite a journey otherwise. So anyway, my phone sex virginity is very happily gone lol. Also, Because his focus was completely on my pleasure and listening to him, I felt very at ease opening up to him! He clearly has done his research on what women want, similar to pattern finding in his career I expect, because he suggested doing things orally I hadn't heard of and that was super hot ;)

Another perk of poly, people are so vastly different sexually there's always something someone doesn't know or hasn't tried lol.

In my ideal fantasy world I hope whoever I decide on in my life can get on with Rocky at least in mutual consideration of each other.

There's a few other side things I forgot to mention. Daniel got in touch yesterday to go ice skating with me, but I haven't yet replied. I guess I have reservations we could just be friends yet. I am going to think on it today. Being friends with someone on the direct opposite side of London is very hard indeed.

Andddd I never heard from Achilles by Thursday so no more dates with him. I suspect he's a player rather than poly. That would be a lot of value differences anyway. If he texts today I will not answer. I don't play games. I gave him a reasonable timetable to answer in and he hasn't so since he already had one chance he doesn't get another since it was Monday we text spoke. Lazy communication!


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