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-   -   The Notebook of JaneQSmythe (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26494)

JaneQSmythe 08-12-2012 09:54 PM

The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
 
Well, my original plan was to bring my blog The Journey of JaneQSmythe up to the present before I started writing about other random poly-related topics as they burst into my head but...apparently I have changed my mind (fickle woman!:rolleyes: - discipline was never my forte:p). Over the past few weeks I have been tempted several times to hi-jack my own blog to post about random events/topics. SO, I have decided to yield to temptation (which is, after all, one of my favorite hobbies:D) and start a second blog for random thoughts/essays/rants.

So, new plan. Now presenting “The Notebook of JaneQSmythe” - an informal, unstructured collection of my musings, thoughts, and experiences. To those of you who have been kind enough to follow my “Journey” blog to this point – I thank you! It is not my intention to abandon it – I do want to continue to chronicle my journey in an orderly fashion there – but it is more autobiographical than philosophical in nature and my attentions are currently divided – and thus, so is my bloggingness.

JaneQ

NOTE: On this blog comments are welcome:). If you would like to have an extended conversation or debate on what I have written that you think would be of general interest then feel free to start a thread in the relevant sub-forum and quote or link here. If you would like to have a private conversation, feel free to PM me.

JaneQSmythe 08-12-2012 10:02 PM

Polymath and Boundaries
 
One of the misunderstandings between Dude and I occurred with reference to a boundary that MrS and I had agreed to and “informed” him of. This was fairly early in my relationship with Dude (4 months or so). For those of you who are unaware of the backstory – we had foregone contraceptives in the past because I desired a baby, the agreement was that if I got pregnant by Dude (who had no desire to be a “father”) then the baby would be mine and MrS's regardless of the state of my relationship with Dude. MrS and I, as a couple, had decided that we were ok with this and Dude had agreed. (I posted a bit more about this here.)

At the time of this “misunderstanding”, we had just experienced our second miscarriage (of which Dude was likely the biological father) and I had a conversation with MrS that I was considering a contraceptive implant for a variety of reasons but that I was having a hard time coming to terms with the idea of never having a baby and I wasn't quite there yet. I was thinking of getting the 3 month shot while preparing myself for the longer-term (3 year) contraceptive. MrS supported my decision – he was of the opinion that he didn't think he wanted to experience the roller-coaster of emotion of pregnancy and failure again, that he was ok with a childless future and understood that I needed a little time to process and “sit-with” this before I took the plunge. With all of this being said, he asked that Dude and I use barrier protection for sex until I was protected by another form of hormonal contraception or we came to the decision that we were ready to cope with another pregnancy (and its potential loss) – I agreed that this was a good idea. We told Dude of our discussion, and he agreed (although he doesn't like condoms).

So one night Dude and I are trying to have sex but he was having difficulty maintaining an erection under the combination of the influence of alcohol and the decreased sensitivity due to the condom. He asked if he could forego the condom until a little further into the process. I said “no” – MrS and I had agreed, condoms until I had hormonal contraception or we were supportive of another pregnancy. Dude was confident in his ability to judge when he was in danger of ejaculation. Whether or not I “believed” Dude was, I felt, irrelevant to the conversation, the current boundary was “no sex without a condom.” (For the record: I had no real doubt as to his control, but I know that pre-ejaculatory fluid can contain viable sperm so the risk of pregnancy is low but not nil – and reducible with the use of condoms.) He asked if it would be ok if it was ok with MrS and promptly jumped up to ask him – I got REALLY pissed off...then Dude didn't seem to understand WHY I was so peeved.

Sex now being “off the table” (I am SOOOOO not horny when pissed off) we sat down to discuss. My position was that jumping up to ask MrS if it was ok to break a boundary was very disrespectful to me when I had already given an answer of “no.” Dude thought that, since it was MrS who proposed the boundary, then it was up to him (MrS) to decide if the boundary could be breached. I felt that the boundary had been discussed and agreed to by MrS and I as a couple (the couple that would be raising any child that resulted from a breach of contraception) and that the boundary could only be rescinded by us together as a couple – Dude had agreed to the boundary and was therefore responsible to BOTH of us to abide by it. Regardless of whether MrS said “yes” or “no” to Dude's question of whether MrS would be ok with Dude and I having penetration without ejaculation without a condom was not relevant as I had already said “no” (by the way, not that it matters, but MrS said “no” as well).

This, to me, revealed a bit of the “couple” ("dyad" if you prefer) dynamic that Dude had been missing and that MrS and I had assumed.. If either MrS or I (or Dude or I, for that matter) requests a “couple” boundary that we each agree to – once it is agreed upon then each member of the couple has the same stake in the boundary regardless of who suggested it. It was a decision that “we” made – neither member of the couple can agree to its negation without consulting with the other.

This is different than a “personal” boundary that other partners have agreed to until it is rescinded by the person who requested it. As an example: For us this would be the “anal sex boundary”. MrS has requested that I not have anal sex with Dude if I won't have anal sex with him. I have a personal boundary: anal sex is a complete turn-off for me, I won't do it. MrS can change his boundary without consulting me (i.e. he could decide that he would be ok with me having anal sex with Dude and not him – which would only come into play if my personal boundary also changed). I can change my boundary without consulting MrS – I could have a sea-change and decide I am ok with anal sex (in which case MrS's boundary would come into play – I could decide to have anal sex with MrS only or with both MrS and Dude but not Dude only – unless MrS also changed his boundary).

I understand that this might be a bit confusing but I think it also lends itself to some interesting communications. Some things I see as “couple” decisions – things that are decided within the multiple dyads that our V consists of. MrS and I get to decide what is ok within the confines of our relationship. Dude and I get to decide what is ok within the confines of our relationship. Actually, MrS and Dude get to decide what is ok with the confines their relationship as well – as best friends and metamours. Additionally we three together get to decide what is ok within the confines of our Vee - things that we all have agreed to or feel as axiomatic – for instance, keeping all members of the Vee “in the loop” if one of us is developing a romantic/sexual relationship outside of the Vee (hasn't happened yet – more on this later) OR condoms with anyone other than the three of us (safer sex/contraception agreement). Underlying all of this – each of us individually gets to decide what is ok for each of us individually. So for a given decision we have to pass through the “filters” of – is it ok for me personally?, is it ok for the relevant dyads?, and is it ok for the Vee as a whole?

Polymath is hard, eh?

JaneQSmythe 10-06-2012 06:32 PM

On Being "Out" ... and Introversion
 
I'm going to emulate the esteemable GalaGirl here and discuss something that I posted in another thread:

Quote:

I am reading that you feel that you were not "really" doing poly if you feel the need to keep it a secret. I, personally, consider myself "fully" poly even though we are not "out" to the world at large - and won't be, at least until I retire, due to my profession (morality clauses and whatnot).

I can't say that this particularly bothers me - there are many areas of my life that I keep "private" from the world at large. But then again, I am a generally private person - I do not develop social friendships with coworkers, for instance. I tend to divide people into three spheres - professional/public, family/acquaintances, chosen family/close friends.

How I present/interact with Dude (or my female FWB for that matter) depends on which "sphere" I am in. In a professional/public context - he is my husband's best friend who I am also close to. I might tell a story about a meal he cooked for us, we might be seen eating or shopping together (with no PDA), I will introduce him as "our friend" if I run into people while we are out.

In a family/acquaintance context - people know that he lives with us but not that we are "together", I might tell a story about how he answered the door in his underwear, I will refer to him as "our roommate".

In a chosen family/close friends context - people know he is my "boyfriend", I might tell a story about a funny thing that happened during sex, or talk about how our feelings have evolved over time.

These levels feel natural to me. I don't think "everyone in my life" - from my boss to the maillady - has a right to know my personal business. My family is great - but they are related to me by accident of birth, not by choice. Acquaintances may be nice people - I interact with them around certain activities or talk with them on limited topics. Just because family/acquaintances share some aspects of my life, doesn't mean that they have to share ALL of them. Chosen family and close friends are the only people who, I think, are entitled to the "real me" - otherwise they aren't chosen family/close friends - these people love ME. They might not agree with me but they get the whole ME.
After posting this, it occurred to me that this probably has more to do with personality type than with anything poly-specific. As an INTJ, I don't seek out "casual" friendships, in fact, I avoid them as being emotionally draining. If I am going to expend the emotional energy to allow someone into my life, then I have decided that they are worth letting ALL THE WAY in, because I care about them.

My current circle of chosen family/close friends consists of 9 people (and, by association, 4 spouses that I would not otherwise be friends with). (I have mentioned all of these people in my other blog on this site.) I can think of possibly 6 other people who have been as close to me during my adult life (say, the last 20 years) that, for various reasons (generally time, children/marriage, and geography), I am no longer as close to. With one exception, should any of these people re-surface in my life I envision that we would simply pick up where we left off (the exception is someone who I found out had been systematically lying to me and I broke off our friendship because of it - the only "break-up" I have ever experienced.)

There are, maybe, another 10-14 people that are aware of our poly arrangement by virtue of being close friends with people in my "inner circle" - which is okay with me. #1) Because I actually trust the judgement of my friends - they would never want to hurt me, and #2.) these other people are geographically, and otherwise, distant from my other two "spheres" (the professional and family ones) and therefore not viewed by me as being "threatening".

If I no longer felt the need to be "in the closet" (as both a poly and a bisexual) due to professional considerations, the next "hump" would be the effect of being "out" on my (and my husband's) immediate family (Dude's family would not come into play, as he is already not speaking with them for other reasons - although I think he would like to be able to be involved with his nephews). Interestingly, I think that our parents would be personally fine with it, once they had time to adjust - their immediate concern would be the effect on my career, on our marriage, and on our relations with extended famly. Our sisters would probably come to term on their own behalf, but I think that their husbands would be appalled - and that, therefore, our relationships with our nieces/nephews would be constrained. My relations with my extended family would probably be decimated...this wouldn't bother me personally, but it WOULD upset my father a great deal.

Taking all of the above into consideration, the only reason that I can see for "coming out" publicly would be so that I could become some sort of "poly activist" - I would have to weigh my desire to do so against the effect that it would have on my/our parents/extended families. (Once my career is no longer at stake, I don't give two shits what "the world at large" thinks of me.)

Luckily for me, my two boys understand and concur with my analysis. We are not at odds about this. I have encouraged Dude to share and seek support from friends (many of whom we have yet to meet) if he wants to. Apparently he has chosen well. He tells me that the few people that he has discussed this with have been of the mindset of "As long as you are happy...." MrS's/my mutual friends were tentatively okay with it as they puzzled it out and realized that #1.) no one was being manipulated/abused and #2.) this did not necessarily change our relationships with them (i.e. no one else was expected to by poly just because we were).

Actually, my biggest fear comes from what happens when Dude decides to start dating again (he's been pretty caught up with his NRE for me/us and hasn't seen anyone new since he moved in.) He says that anyone he dates would have to be okay with him continuing to see me (although the shape of our relationship might/will change) - but I worry about what happens when they argue and she threatens to "out" us. (I hope this is paranoia talking - his last GF, CrazyGirl, is seriously nuts, knows that we are somehow 'involved', partially blames me for their last break-up, and STILL hasn't tried to ruin our lives...)

Enough rambling for now...

JaneQ

GalaGirl 10-08-2012 01:41 AM

Quote:

As an INTJ, I don't seek out "casual" friendships, in fact, I avoid them as being emotionally draining. If I am going to expend the emotional energy to allow someone into my life, then I have decided that they are worth letting ALL THE WAY in, because I care about them.
OMG. I never thought about relating it to myers-briggs.

Depending if I am in a people liking mood or a NOT people liking mood? When I take it I am either Lisa Simpson (INFJ) or Mr Burns. (INTJ)

http://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/embed_code/1073009

I suspect is an "I" thing. Now I have to go think about that. Thanks for the new HeadThink! I'll have to chase that new Shiny around in my head now. :)

GG

ThatGirlInGray 10-08-2012 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe (Post 158420)
Taking all of the above into consideration, the only reason that I can see for "coming out" publicly would be so that I could become some sort of "poly activist" - I would have to weigh my desire to do so against the effect that it would have on my/our parents/extended families. (Once my career is no longer at stake, I don't give two shits what "the world at large" thinks of me.)

I similarly have no big desire to be out publicly, but right now I HATE that I am lying to my parents and my children. I keep telling myself, "Once we live together and there's solid evidence that my marriage and my kids are FINE, then telling my mom will be worth the upset that will occur. I can wait, it's okay, there's no rush." But it kills me that I can't talk to her about TGIB at the level I would like to, and I wonder if I'm doing something similar to a cheater where I'm telling myself excuses in order to make things "easier". I know I will tell her eventually, because once my kids are old enough to explain things to I won't lie to them, and I won't put them in a position to have to lie to their grandparents, but I still struggle with timing- is waiting going to make it worse in the long run? Am I trying too hard to justify not telling her now?

Quote:

Actually, my biggest fear comes from what happens when Dude decides to start dating again (he's been pretty caught up with his NRE for me/us and hasn't seen anyone new since he moved in.) He says that anyone he dates would have to be okay with him continuing to see me (although the shape of our relationship might/will change) - but I worry about what happens when they argue and she threatens to "out" us. (I hope this is paranoia talking - his last GF, CrazyGirl, is seriously nuts, knows that we are somehow 'involved', partially blames me for their last break-up, and STILL hasn't tried to ruin our lives...)
THIS. I've already had a conversation with TGIB about, "Please don't tell your unstable ex any more than she needs to know about me and my kids." She hasn't threatened his parental rights in a while, which is good, but I still worry about the damage she could do to me and my family if she chose to. Then you add in the possibility of someone new, and...yeah. Like you say, hopefully paranoia.

JaneQSmythe 10-21-2012 01:41 AM

Amusing Anecdote
 
Taking a page from GalaGirl's "Conversations Already in Progress" I'm going to re-post bits of some of my other posts that it don't want to have to search for later.

From a post I made in Cleo's blog:

Quote:

I'm just bopping along, enjoying life, doing stuff. Boys living life, enjoying selves, doing stuff...then someone will say some random thing and I will have a shift in perspective - and joltingly realize that what seems so "normal" to me (largely, I think, because of the time I spend here) would shock the living daylights out of many of the people that I interact with every day.

For instance, the other week at work a coworker asked if I had change for a $10. I happened to have 17 $1 bills in my purse (weird drive-thru change incident). I jokingly said to her as we swapped bills - "Good thing I still have these, I meant to give them to MrS for the next time he went to the strip club." She jokingly said "I was going to ask where you were working nights, that you had so many $1s." Then she did a double take - "Wait...your husband goes to strips clubs?...and you're OK with that?!"

Meanwhile, the boys go to strip clubs maybe a few times every couple of years as part of a night out with the guys (sometimes I go too ). What I say is "You know ... for the occasional bachelor party. And, no, I don't mind." While, in the back of my head, I'm thinking - "Well since he doesn't mind that my boyfriend lives with us and sleeps in our bed...it would be hard to begrudge him an occasional eyeful of pretty naked dancing ladies, now wouldn't it?"

JaneQSmythe 10-21-2012 04:55 PM

Probably Mono
 
From a post in Eudora's "in Love with two Men, feel split at the seams" thread with regard to MrS and his "Probably Mono" status in my sig:

Quote:

He does not have any lovers, although he is not against the idea per se. When we first got together (20 years ago now) and were working out how to be in a relationship together he did have several "Friends with Benefits" relationships with ex-girlfriends. (You can read the details in my "Journey" blog here) which kind of faded away as they pursued other relationships.

Other than that, he has not been involved with anyone other than peripherally (i.e. if one of my female Friends-With-Benefits that he was also friends with wanted to invite him to join us in a threesome). So for 20 years he has had the option of pursuing other women sexually or romantically and has never really taken advantage of it - which is why I list his status as "probably mono". And, yes, I think that this is likely related to his lower sex-drive (and generally passive seduction techniques - I wrote in my blog: "Apparently MrS's method of seduction is to sit around having interesting conversations and looking sexy until some sweet young thing drags him bodily off into the bushes.")

On the other hand, he does appreciate that he could pursue someone if the opportunity arose. That he is free to develop a relationship with any of his female friends to whatever depth they feel comfortable (for instance, he and the wife of one of our friend's will go out to movies together that her husband and I don't like, usually with dinner after - a non-romantic date if you will). That we can go to a party and he can flirt with women and maybe have a little cuddle/make-out session with my blessing (he sometimes needs a little encouragement because he doesn't always notice when someone is hitting on him - I usually have to point it out). That he can come home from a concert and tell me about the pretty hippy chicks he was dancing with/flirting with and talk about maybe finding one to bring home and introduce to me...someday.

So I think he likes the idea of the possibility of other relationships but feels no driving urge to "find someone" - he just kind of takes life as it comes.

JaneQSmythe 10-28-2012 03:11 PM

Safety in Numbers
 
My reply in this thread got a little long and off-topic, so I thought I'd post the rest of it here:

Quote:

If it were me I'd probably go the route of pursuing a friendship first - while making it completely obvious that I have a boyfriend and this friendship is not a secret - then flirting like mad. I wouldn't necessarily get into a deep discussion about relationships unless the conversation turned that way and wouldn't use the word polyamory at all unless until it was obvious that things were headed in the "relationship" direction (I'd use "non-exclusive" if I had to put it to words).

I hung out with lots of guys in college when I had a boyfriend (I generally find it easier to make friends with men) although I wasn't having sex with other guys at that point. Generally, I'd ask them if they wanted to join me for lunch or coffee or whatever, then I'd make a quick call to MrS and say "Hey, I won't be coming home until later, I'm having coffee with MrInteresting from English class that I was telling you about" - MrS would say "Cool, we all are going to be hanging out at the pool hall until 6 or so if you guys want to stop by." This let the guys know that there was a boyfriend in the picture and that it wasn't an issue without saying it in so many words.
Guys would occasionally ask "Doesn't your boyfriend mind that you are hanging out with another guy?" and my reply would be "Why would he? He's my boyfriend, not my owner. We don't need permission to hang out with our friends. He does worry about my safety on campus, however, so I like to let him know where I am, who I am with, and how I am planning on getting home - in case I need him to come get me. He does the same thing."

Additional details: MrS turned 21 a year and a half before me, so he and our roommates would go out to bars and whatnot - he'd tell me who all was going and which bars they thought they would go to. He'd usually check in at some point in the evening and let me know that they were all safe, if the plans had changed, and what time he thought they'd be getting home. Our roommates were gay and violence against gays was one concern - one of them had gotten beat up coming home alone one night - so we were all on board with the "traveling in groups" , "having a getting-home plan" and "running things by a non-drunk person in case this is a really bad idea" type of safety measures.

JaneQ

JaneQSmythe 12-06-2012 04:58 AM

Holidays, Family, and Poly
 
There have been a few threads recently about how to handle the holidays. Just the other day one of my friends asked me how we handled our "third wheel" at Thanksgiving. We are not "out" to our immediate family but are easing them towards figuring it out for themselves (they are not the prying sort and may ask occasional vague questions but not press if they get vague answers).

With my husband's family: my MIL invited me and MrS to their house, the next day (after checking with Dude) MrS called his mom and asked if it was OK to bring our "roommate". The day went fine! During the course of dinner, it was brought up that we went to Dude's grandmother's house for Thanksgiving (as his best friend and his wife) the year before. She died earlier this year and I think Dude was genuinely glad to be included in MrS's family celebration this year while missing his Gram.

With my family (who Dude has met / eaten with on several occasions): Mom called to invite us to Thanksgiving weekend and SHE, after a few minutes, thought ON HER OWN to invite Dude as well. It came out, during our conversation, that Dude's birthday is only a few days before MrS's (which is a few days before Thanksgiving). When we showed up for dinner she had actually baked a double batch of cookies (MrS's traditional Birthday present) and had a tin ready for EACH of them.

I don't know if I mentioned it before, but my mother, without knowing the specifics of the situation, has assigned Dude the role of "adopted step son-in-law" (how awesomely inadvertently appropriate!).

Amusingly, to me, the people that seem to have the most questions / are the most bothered by a living situation that they don't understand are our brother-in-laws :eek:. (And even they have not asked anything directly or made any overt negative comments.)

I think MrS and I are just lucky. Our families allow for a LOT of privacy. Everyone is civil and nice. Nobody pries. Dude's family - well, they are not a problem because he is estranged from most of them (for reasons having nothing to do with poly). His Gram was the one he was closest to, now that she has passed he doesn't feel the need to associate any longer with people who don't add anything positive to his life.

WE are his family now and we are slowly integrating him into our immediate families. I don't feel the need to integrate him into my extended family at this point - I only see them once or twice a year and we aren't that close.

So far, so good.

JaneQ

JaneQSmythe 12-12-2012 04:27 AM

OKCupid Expansion
 
I did put up a profile on OKCupid. This stemmed from a conversation I was having with Dude about how it seemed to be the preferred site for polys and was free. We were curious about how the matching worked...he had "meh" results on other sites in the past (I've never used one before).

*****The results, ONE WEEK in.*****
First off -

I'd added absolutely NOTHING to the profile yet, no text, no pictures, nothing, when I got my first message:

Quote:

Hey cutie **** here think u sound yummy wanna chat ,cum play? Wanna cum over tonight,hangout I'm in ***** area of (nearby city).
:rolleyes:


3 messages from the same guy - of the "You there lady?" variety - and then...

Quote:

wow can i join yr stable of boys or just some interesting conversation i find you really interesting or mabey you can teach me a lil about polyamorous thankyou
I did respond ... he HAD apparently at least read my profile, after all...mainly to tell him that, based on his profile, we had essentially NOTHING in common.

I did receive a message from a bi-girl who thought I was "comfortable and self-aware" and mentioned several things about my profile - which gave me a warm fuzzy. She then asked for some advice about how to approach her boyfriend about "adding" another woman to their relationship. She seemed sincere, and I did write her back with some thoughts (largely generated by the type of advice I have seen / would give here). Haven't heard anything back but feel that the exchange was worthwhile if it gave her some "food for thought".

Eh...33 visitors and messages from 4 of them. I'm done tweaking my profile for a bit and going back to answering questions...So far the match % seems to be pretty good. I am finding a number of interesting profiles to look at and have sent off a few messages to people that the site matched me with or who visited my profile that looked interesting.

We'll see how this little adventure plays out.

JaneQ

Mya 12-13-2012 12:47 PM

It's interesting to read about your OKC adventure since I, too, just created a profile there a couple weeks ago and am trying to get the hang of it. I've already met two people and have dates planned with three other people. I never thought this would happen so fast! But the creepy guys.. Today I got a message "how often do u wash?". :rolleyes:

nycindie 12-13-2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mya (Post 171707)
Today I got a message "how often do u wash?". :rolleyes:

OH MY!!! :eek:

BrigidsDaughter 12-14-2012 12:52 AM

I've been chatting regularly with one guy on OKCupid, though not actually on OKCupid. He and I met there and I realized that he was the same guy Runic Wolf's ex was casually dating. We met him in October when he came to our October poly event. She and I are still close and we went to her house for her annual holiday dinner in early November where he and I talked some more. He's aware that I am only looking for friendship with males (I am saturated with male relationship energy), but am looking to date women. So far I haven't had a single reply to any of my messages to females. Though I've gotten views from couples looking for a third that just isn't what I want.

JaneQSmythe 12-14-2012 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrigidsDaughter (Post 171846)
Though I've gotten views from couples looking for a third that just isn't what I want.

I've had a few views from "couples looking for a third" as well. Interesting to me is how LOW of a match % OKC gives us. I don't know if that is because my profile is based on ME and theirs is an amalgamation of two people, or if I am really that far from the "unicorn hunter" in terms of basic philosophy.

Sure, it would be awesome if someone I met really "clicked" with one or the other or both of my boys...but that is, by NO means, a requirement or an expectation. My expectation (which might be a requirement) is that said "potential" be respectful of my existing relationships - in the sense that they don't expect me to "break up" with someone in order to be with them.

MrS has always been fine with me conducting my relationships with women in whatever way I (and they) feel appropriate. (Actually, they don't actually have to meet him if they don't want to, as long as he knows that they know that he exists.) I haven't met anyone new since Dude came into the picture (he has now met all of my current FWBs), I suspect he will be a LOT more curious about meeting them than MrS (his personality - not his insecurity). I have spoken to him extensively that just because someone is bisexual doesn't mean that they are interested in EVERYONE (we had an example, early on in our adventure, where he assumed that two bi-women who were interested in him would therefore be interested in each other...NOT SO...I haven't written about this yet...perhaps I should catch my other blog up :rolleyes:)

JaneQ

JaneQSmythe 12-29-2012 11:05 PM

A Curious Nephew
 
Kids are way more perceptive than we give them credit for.

Just today, we three were at my sister's house for our Christmas get-together. I was off playing with my 7 year old nephew and we were chatting about this and that that popped into his head. At one point in the conversation we we talking about how each of the people are related to each other - how I am his "aunt" and MrS's "wife" and his mom's "sister", so he comes out with "What about Dude?"

Hmmm...how to handle this. I say he is MrS's "friend" and our "roommate" and he comes out with: "I heard mom and dad talking and I thought, like maybe, you have two husbands. DO you have two husbands?" Yikes!

Now, we are not officially "out" as poly to our families. "Officially" they know that Dude has been living with us for 2 years, that we vacation together, they invite him to "family" functions (they know he is estranged from his own family), etc. These are not stupid people - I'm sure they "know", to some degree, what is going on. But we have not discussed it openly...and probably won't for some time, if ever ("not prying" is valued in my family, and we don't talk about "private/intimate" topics like sex). A note here, my sister and her husband are VERY religious, and their church is very small BUT gossip is very frowned upon.

So now I am faced with a dilemma. How do I answer this question in a way that a.) is honest (NOT lying to children is very important in my family) and b.) won't contradict any explanation for Dude's presence that my sister may provide to my nephew? What is a seven year old's concept of "husband" anyway?

My answer, to the question "DO you have two husbands?": "Hmmmm...not quite, but almost." (This seemed to satisfy him, and he moved on to other topics - namely Star Wars and Legos.) I feel like I should call my sister and let her know a.) his question and b.) my answer - so that she can take that into account if he brings up the subject with them. (I just have this mental picture of him announcing to his Sunday School class - when there is some story about a biblical character with multiple wives - that Aunt Jane has two husbands.)

BUT I don't actually want to have a conversation with my sister about our situation - I'm perfectly happy with the state of vague acceptance (a familial DADT if you will) that we have now. MrS says that I am over-thinking things and that it is perfectly ok to just let it slide and that my answer was vague enough that they can still re-frame my nephew's interpretation if needed.

Damn, kids...

JaneQ

GalaGirl 12-30-2012 04:29 AM

I think it was vague enough. Don't overthink it.

Quote:

So now I am faced with a dilemma. How do I answer this question in a way that a.) is honest (NOT lying to children is very important in my family) and b.) won't contradict any explanation for Dude's presence that my sister may provide to my nephew? What is a seven year old's concept of "husband" anyway?
If it comes up again, could say: "I am married to Mr S. I am not married to Dude. But we're roomies and all best friends." There. Legally married means one legal husband right now. It is honest and age appropriate, and if REPEATED by the child to someone else doesn't stir hooha anywhere that would come back on you.

A kid that age can have a concept of a "husband" and a "best friend" -- so its not using big words they don't have a handle on.

Since you are not "out" to your family and don't seem to be inclined to go there at this time, that could work "good enough for now" and when things change as the kid grows, you can adjust your responses then.

And for entertaining conversation, could ask the kid "Well, what do you think a husband is? What should a husband be able to do around the house?" just to know where his little brain is at at this age.

Or go safe with other conversation paths:
  • "Do you think one day you might get married? Would you have a big wedding cake or a small one? "
  • "Do you think one day you would have a roommate? Would you live in the city or the country?"
  • "Do you have good friends this year in school? Are they totally new or old friends from last year's class?"

Early elementary school is still very self centered -- they want your attention as THEIR audience so they can yammer at you about THEIR stuff. It's not so much about you too much.

Galagirl

JaneQSmythe 01-11-2013 04:35 AM

Thanks GG!
 
Thanks GG for the reply - I will certainly keep your post in mind if it comes up again (which I'm sure it will - that kid is SHARP - always pondering...) I'm glad that you agree with my husband that my ("OMG WTF") off-the-cuff answer was vague enough. I have spoken to my sister a few times since then and nothing has come up, so the waters seem still at the moment.

To be perfectly honest, I am proud of the way that my family has accepted Dude into our "inner circle" withOUT needing to define specifically his role. To be fair, this is not terribly different from how MrS got gradually included years ago - when we were living together but not "officially" engaged. In my family, you can speculate to your heart's content in private but making someone who is obviously "important" to someone you care about feel uncomfortable or unwanted is NOT DONE.

JaneQ

JaneQSmythe 01-11-2013 04:40 AM

Love...and social functions.
 
Today, I was contemplating the fact that my husband loves me. I mean he really, really LOVES me. Apparently, he loves me in a way that is readily apparent to anyone who sees us together. People comment on it, which surprises me. See (those of you who have read my other blog know this already), my relationship with MrS was my first relationship, so in my subconscious this is how relationships are “supposed” to work. We talk to each other, we trust each other, we love each other, we want to please each other, we want each other to be happy – over time (20 years), we get better and better at each of these. Of COURSE we do – that's kind of the whole point!

So what does he do that makes it so obvious to outsiders that he loves me, that I am so used to that I don't see what all the fuss is about? (To be clear, I know that he loves me, I am not in doubt about that. I just am so curious as to what other people are seeing.)

As an example, he takes me, at my request (which I make rarely, as I know he doesn't enjoy this sort of thing*), to an office Christmas party at one of my staff's houses. These are not people that he knows well (although he has met them in passing and they know of him through stories I have told) or would normally socialize with (although they are fine, nice people), this is not his sort of gathering (or mine, I am not a “networking” kind of girl). So what happens?

1.)I am chatting with various office folk (which is my “job” at this sort of social gathering). MrS refreshes my plate with various tidbits of food (that are my favorites, the man knows the food I like!) so I don't have to interrupt my conversations to stay fed.

2.)He joins my “team” playing Pictionary (not his thing at all) and good-naturedly takes his turn, engaging the rest of the team with bemused facial expressions when he can't draw worth a damn and rooting/cheering me on as I slay the opposition.

3.)He fetches me water as he refills my drink and has me rehydrate as he tells other spouses amusing work-related stories (all tasteful and appropriate) about being married to someone in my profession.

4.)As the night wears on (and I am getting tipsy) he gently points out as people are leaving, so I can make my farewells and not leave anyone out. As things wind down he escorts me around to make my final goodbyes to the remaining guests and our hosts as we gather our coats (he helps me into mine and helps me find my gloves).

5.)He tucks me into the passenger seat, makes sure I have my purse and belongings and my seatbelt is securely fastened and drives me home.

The next day various staff members comment on how much my husband obviously loves me, how do they know? The general gist that I get is that it hinges on the fact that he is “paying attention” to what my needs/wants are and helping me do what I am supposed to do at such functions – talk and socialize with my workmates. But, I have to say that I am somewhat bemused, OF COURSE he does these things! I “have” to go to this social thingy, he agrees to go with with me to support that, he supports me by helping me do a good “job” at the social thingy (I'm an introvert, this is “work” for me – having MrS there to smooth the path makes it less “work”). If he was just going to mope and withdraw because it wasn't his “thing” then what would be the point of agreeing to go in the first place?!

JaneQ

* I actually have made a “rule” about it – we can ask each other to attend two “social” functions a year that the other would rather decline if we feel the need for “spousal attendance.” Weddings, funerals, work functions, etc. I think limiting the number of times we drag each other to gatherings we would rather avoid a.) makes us (me) pick-and-choose the most important and b.) ensures that the “dragee” gives their best effort on those few occasions.

PS. We actually both have "fail-safe" type of excuses (work-related) we can use if asked why our spouse is not with us at such functions...so one is perfectly free to attend without the other if we are so inclined. I have no need to be 100% honest with people who have no business being so nosy...

opalescent 01-11-2013 03:52 PM

Love is a verb. It is actions done again and again over time. The statement 'I love you' is just the beginning. MrS clearly understands that. He has taken the time to understand you, and figure out how to support you. Then he does the little things it takes to actually be supportive. He walks the walk so to speak. And yes it would be obvious even to people who don't know the both of you well. Unfortunately it is less common than one would hope. I am amazed at how nasty or indifferently some people treat their supposed loved ones.

JaneQSmythe 01-12-2013 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opalescent (Post 177271)
... MrS clearly understands that. He has taken the time to understand you, and figure out how to support you. Then he does the little things it takes to actually be supportive. He walks the walk so to speak. ...

I think that you are exactly right. A friend of ours once asked MrS how he always knows just what will make me happy, that he should write a "how to" book. MrS says Chapter One would be "Pay Attention." - not really paying attention to me personally (although sometimes I want that) but paying attention to what I like, what makes me uncomfortable, what relaxes me, what energizes me. For me, it isn't about big presents and flashy sweeping declarations of love - it's setting up the coffee pot before he goes to bed if I have an early day, noticing when I need cuddles and when I need quiet when I get home from work, bringing me tasty foods to try, etc. (To be fair, MrS says I'm "easy to please" - it doesn't take a lot to get me grinning at his thoughtfulness :p)

I am truly a "lucky girl"!

JaneQ

JaneQSmythe 01-16-2013 10:39 AM

Dude's future relationship possibilities
 
As usual my reply to someone's post got a little long, but, as it relates to my thoughts on our current and future relationship configurations, I'd like to re-quote it here.

From my reply to someone's My Intro thread:

Quote:

My own fear, early on, with Dude was that being in a relationship with me would impede his ability to find a "real girl" (i.e. a primary of his own) - the difference is that he wasn't/isn't actually "looking" for a primary (although not necessarily ruling it out) - this was my own fear. After a while, as our relationship evolved, he said that continuing a relationship with me (in some fashion) would be a necessary part of any future relationship configuration he finds himself in.

Now, lots of things could happen in the future (which is always a true statement). Dude could find a "real girl" who wants to be primary and our relationship could shift into a more secondary model. His new girl might have no interest in a primary type relationship with him (perhaps she already has a primary or doesn't want one) and choose to take a secondary role herself. New girl might be interested in a non-hierarchical model or a "working toward co-primary" type situation (as is evolving between the three of us). In addition, but not expected , the new girl might be interested in pursuing a relationship with either me or MrS as well...

The fact is that this hypothetical new girl will have her own preferences and boundaries, and OUR relationship could be in very different place than it is now (as people and relationships change over time). So, thinking NOW about what things could look like in the future is an interesting theoretical exercise (and I think it is good to be aware of the possibilities) but, until hypothetical new girl is actually on the scene, then no conclusions can be drawn.

JaneQSmythe 01-18-2013 12:00 AM

I'm still chuckling...so I have to take down a note. I was reading some posts here to my boys that had to do with arguments and the involvement (or not) of the uninvolved party and we were discussing the fact that MrS and I seems to have an argument, on average, about twice a year (which hasn't changed). How it's handled, etc.

Which led to a discussion of how long our relationship has lasted...we will have been "together" for 21 years. MrS quips: "Our relationship is old enough to drink!" then comes up with (in reference to Dude and I - who have been together for 2 years): "Your relationship says 'No!' a lot and takes naps."

Ha!:D

JaneQ

ThatGirlInGray 01-18-2013 12:39 AM

HAHA! Awesome! My relationship with MC, then, is getting ready to learn how to drive, while my relationship with TGIB is walking and eating solid foods.

BrigidsDaughter 01-18-2013 01:12 PM

Lol, my relationship with my husband, Runic Wolf, is flirting, dating, and fooling around. . . . my relationship with boyfriend, Wendigo, is learning to tie it's shoes and write letters and numbers, maybe start pre-school and make some friends.

JaneQSmythe 01-19-2013 01:44 AM

I'm so smiley right now:D TGIG and BD - way to take my "mini-meme" and run with it! (I shared your responses with my boys and they were so amused that you enjoyed our joke and expanded on it.)

This is one of the many things I love about this forum...I feel I can share the "silly" as well as the "serious" moments here. Yes, poly has it's struggles and bumps, as well as its unique challenges, but most of us are just regular folks who have regular problems and regular joys intermixed with the "poly" stuff. Thank you for sharing this with me!

JaneQ

JaneQSmythe 01-25-2013 04:15 AM

Eyes Wide Open
 
I received a favorable response to this post, and I would like to preserve the bit about how opening our relationship to an "other" really opened my eyes with regards to my husband:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe (Post 180118)
My relationship with MrS was good before Dude came along. We weren't perfect, but we were solid. Many of our friends looked at our marriage as the best example of "happy" they had ever seen. Yet still, when (after one of the most tumultuous times of our 20 years together) MrS gave his stamp of approval to my exploring things with Dude..holy shit, MrS came into "focus" in a way that I can only compare to our early NRE days.

THIS man, who has stood beside me through years of my own angst-y shit, who has explored life with me day-by-day-by-dreary-day, who has seen me at my best and my worst - he is still here. Someone I have sometimes taken out my anger on (unwarranted), that I have neglected at times (because he is a fixture in my life), THIS man is here, by my side, through THIS - my exploration of a connection with an "other." Even THIS is not enough to shake his love for me - even though he is uncomfortable at times, even though he is unsure at times, even though he can't predict how things will turn out. Still, here he is, hanging on - to me, to us, to our marriage, to what we have created together. How could I have not seen? How could I NOT love this WONDERFUL man? (Ah-hah! a light - I CAN'T NOT love him...NOW I can really SEE and APPRECIATE this man that is my husband.)

I'm so glad that my experiences can help others on their own Journeys. I'm also glad that I have this venue to write and learn. And I am double/triple glad that my boys are willing to take this Journey with me.

I am a lucky girl!

JaneQ

PS. This morning Dude was looking at me like "that"...the "meaningful" look, not the "I'm horny" look...and I said: "You know that I am the luckiest girl, right?"...his reply: "I know...you married my best friend." An unexpected, left-field, truism.

Velvet 01-28-2013 07:28 AM

Just lovely
 
JaneQ,

That short paragraph is wonderful. I think it captures the best hopes of anyone starts down the path of polyamory when they already have an established partner. I'm glad you threw in your blog so I could catch it. :)

opalescent 01-28-2013 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe (Post 180807)
PS. This morning Dude was looking at me like "that"...the "meaningful" look, not the "I'm horny" look...and I said: "You know that I am the luckiest girl, right?"...his reply: "I know...you married my best friend." An unexpected, left-field, truism.

I totally squeed at this. Awesomeness.

JaneQSmythe 03-24-2013 04:30 PM

Coming Out...a little more.
 
We (I) took the plunge this weekend and added another layer to our “coming out.”

Backstory: As I have written elsewhere here, I am a very private person anyway and tend to keep my professional circle of acquaintances, my family, and my social circles very separate. In terms of our immediate families – they know Dude lives with us and accept him has “family” (invited to family holidays etc.) but we don't discuss the details of our relationship or refer to it directly. We are “out” to my personal friends and MrS's and my shared friends from the pre-Dude years – a total of maybe 20 people max over the past 2 years – most of whom are not from/ do not live in our immediate area. I am not “out” at work or in public due to professional considerations.

So, we live/I work near Dude's hometown and he and MrS have been hanging out with some of Dude's old friends. (Dude has lived elsewhere for YEARS before coming back several years ago – about the time MrS met him, a few years before MrS introduced Dude and I in person). Anyway, Dude and MrS have made friends with one couple through mutual friends that they really wanted me to meet. (Incredible, cool, fun, smart, interesting people.) I have been reluctant, beyond even my usual introvert reluctance...and, it took me a little bit, but I finally figured it out.

If we are going to be hanging out with people in a social setting, I need to be able to be myself – to act as I naturally would and talk about whatever came up without “hiding” anything. Anyone who sees the three of us in a casual relaxed atmosphere is going to be able to see the interactions between the three of us and know that there is more than a married couple + roommate/friend dynamic going on. And it's not that I (or MrS or Dude) mind for these friends/friends-of-friends to know for themselves– it's that we live/I work in a small town and there is bound to be at least SOME overlap between my professional life and Dude's social circle.

We all talked about the concerns several times, thought about it, and decided that the benefit of opening myself up to friendships within this group of people was worth the potential risk. So, Friday night we all went to a concert in the nearby city and a small group of us went back to the “interesting couple”'s house for a small party. It was the three of us, the “interesting couple”, a couple that I already know and am comfortable with (Dude's other “best friend” and his girlfriend), another couple and 4-5 other random people. We/I had a great time!

There were a few raised eyebrows on occasion – for instance, a few of us were hanging out in the kitchen and somehow Dude and MrS got to talking about how I sleepwalk sometimes and the funny things that I do. One of the “random people” girls (that Dude and MrS have met before but I haven't talked to) asked “So, do you live together?” - I answered “yes” and went back to the side conversation that I was having, then MrS answered “yes”, then Dude answered “yes” - apparently (it was reported to me later) – with each “yes” her eyes just got bigger.

There was, of course, the inevitable overlap that I was concerned about. It turns out the wife of the “another couple” works with one of my partners from the office in a different setting on a semi-regular basis. I wandered in on the tail-end of a conversation between Dude and the “another couple” were he was, I think, talking about our unusual relationship configuration and the need for some discretion in the work arena. (Now, I don't know this woman, perhaps she is the biggest gossip in the county, if so – the cat is now out of the bag. I don't actually care if my partner that she works with knows – he is a cool guy, we have a “work” friendship and HE is not a gossip – I just don't need it to be “public knowledge”.)

Anyway, the “interesting couple” offered us a bed for the night. Some people left, some people stayed. In the morning it was us, the “interesting couple”, the couple that I already know, and the one “random person” guy that I had gotten to know best during the course of the night. I felt very comfortable. I actually woke up before anyone but the “interesting couple” and we had a nice chat. She took me on a tour of their property on the quad. I had an interesting conversation with the husband – where he asked if I had a good time and he hoped that I didn't feel like they had “hovered over” me too much. Apparently, this little “get together” was engineered in such a way because they were interested in meeting ME! :eek: We didn't talk directly about my relationships but they were indirectly acknowledged as a "given".

So – the ice has been broken. I am actually feeling pretty relaxed about the whole situation. The boys and the husband of the “interesting couple” have some projects they are going to be working on together and I see more socializing in our future. Now that I have met them, stayed with them, the boys are free to invite them to our house...

New friendships with interesting people, hmmm – I haven't done THAT it a while (maybe some friendship-NRE coming on?)

JaneQ

PS. Fingers-crossed that I have not just ruined my career...:cool: Somehow I don't think so - these people are themselves hippie-freak counter-culture types and not likely to fault us for going against the mainstream. I mean, really, is the tatted-up guy with the dreads down to his waist really going to rat me out for not "conforming" to society's rules on relationships? The folks that are working toward a self-sustaining farm and off-grid living are going to worry about me choosing an "alternative relationship" style? I think not.

JaneQSmythe 04-27-2013 03:48 AM

Directionless Anxiety
 
I had a rough week – and the annoying part is...there is no fucking reason for it! Everything is actually FINE. Yes, there is stress at work – but no more that usual. The boys are actually working on the old house – slower than I would choose but an improvement over the “none” that was happening before. MrS is fine – he is not depressed or upset about anything. Dude is fine – no existential angst or dwelling on old dysfunctional family shit. Nothing is different, yet...I find myself in a state of almost-panic. It's not “about” anything. (This is what is so hard to fathom/explain.)

I have some sort of “Anxiety Disorder” (probably GAD) – I recognize it, my father has it (I am so like him in so many ways). But, usually, this manifests as an anxious state in “response” to something (some “trigger”) but WAY out of proportion. For instance, MrS will make a snippy response to something because he is tired or just annoyed and I will roll that into a whole mental hamster wheel about how he is fundamentally unhappy with our situation and poly and x and y and z...etc. I will then recognize that I am on said “hamster wheel” and can talk myself down, ask MrS for the reassurances that I need, and “get over” it. OR, I will have too many deadlines to meet or too many responsibilities piled on me at work and get myself into a state where all of this is pressing down on me and I can't sleep and I dwell on all of the “work” I have to do. I will then recognize that I am only one person and there are so many hours in the day and I can consciously choose to prioritize the things that are actually important and let the other ones go (So what if deadlines don't get met? So what if meaningless scut-work doesn't get done? Pick the stuff that affects actual people, do that, and move on. Your bureaucracy is not my problem.)

This week though...JEESH! I have this sense of doom with NO direction at all. Like I am waiting for the “other shoe to drop” ….but there was no “first shoe” to instigate it. Like when you wake up at three AM and remember that there is this “really important thing” that you forgot to do...but there IS NO “really important thing.” I tell myself it's just anxiety – doesn't help. My heart is pounding, I can't breathe, I'm shaking. Dude tries to hold me - “What's wrong honey?” Nothing, there is NOTHING FUCKING WRONG – “I'm just feeling anxious...about nothing.” Literally – nothing. There is not a single blessed thing that I am actually worried about – so there is nothing to talk myself down from. MrS looks worried - “Are you okay?” Yes, I'm fine – except I feel like I am going to implode. Nobody has done anything, said anything … but … It feels like something really awful is going to come to light any second now and somehow it will be ALL MY FAULT. (What?! Where?! Seriously, I haven't done ANYTHING different.) How can I argue myself out of feeling bad about “it” when there is no “it”? God-damn-it.

I had some hints that this was coming on over the past weeks – fleeting panics out of proportion the the “threat”. So I did restart the SSRI that I have used in the past (I'm more reluctant to do this than previously, however, since I do notice a decrease in libido that will affect my relationship with Dude, which is much more “physical sex” based than my relationship with MrS). Do I need to go back to counseling? I “did” three months of counseling a few years ago when the stresses of a big deadline/ a big family event/ and stress of infertility all came to a head at the same time. (It was helpful – the deadline passed, the family event was over, and I started to come to terms with the idea that I would likely never bear a biological child). But now? With no “triggers” to talk about?

ARRRGGH!

JaneQ

PS. Today was a good day. Work was lighter than usual. I got a bunch of stuff done that was piling up. And I wasn't in a panic. Maybe the meds are kicking in...or maybe I was being “triggered” by stuff I didn't recognize... we'll see.

wildflowers 04-27-2013 10:05 AM

This sounds really tough; sorry!!

Do you have any activities that tend to lighten your mood, things that when you focus on them you are distracted from the worries? If so, can you make a concerted effort to spend more time at them?

For me, yoga, music, exercise, some reading all help me escape. Even at times when I'm not all that keen to engage in them initially, I end up feeling better.

I wonder if the anxiety might be becoming its own trigger, ie you had some initial bad feeling you didn't understand, and worry about that is now spiralling out of control.

Glad that yesterday was a bit better.

opalescent 04-27-2013 02:22 PM

I hate to suggest this because it is *such* a stereotypical response to women experiencing emotional difficulties.

But, have you had your hormones checked recently? Thyroid for sure. Maybe others? Check with your doctor. Personally if I am generally angry at the world for no reason, my period is around the corner. It happen's often enough that I recognize the pattern now but it took a while to connect that rage over nothing to hormonal fluctuations as my body prepared to menstruate. Or if I am low in thyroid hormone, I am lethargic and sad. It's astonishing the power hormones can have over our emotional states. (Men too.)

And I hate to be all up in your in business but have you talked to a doctor about going back on your SSRI? Some of those need titration to work properly and not cause bad side effects.

And I don't know your age but there are hormonal long term changes as one ages. The shift from regular menses to perimenopause to full menopause, for example. Something to be aware of but, typically, every woman experiences these differently.

Wishing you the best and restful thoughts.

JaneQSmythe 04-27-2013 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildflowers (Post 200087)
This sounds really tough; sorry!!

Thank you for reading and caring!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildflowers (Post 200087)
Do you have any activities that tend to lighten your mood, things that when you focus on them you are distracted from the worries? If so, can you make a concerted effort to spend more time at them?

For me, yoga, music, exercise, some reading all help me escape. Even at times when I'm not all that keen to engage in them initially, I end up feeling better.

Excellent suggestion! I usually "disengage" my brain by re-reading my favorite science fiction.

Yoga is also very therapeutic for me - but I tend to only do it when I am actually attending a class. I think I need to put together a few sequences that I can do at work - close the office door and run through a few sun salutations maybe? Also, I think I need to set up my yoga space at home as a more permanent arrangement and then make the commitment to do even a small amount regularly. Thank you for reminding me of my intention in this regard!:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildflowers (Post 200087)
I wonder if the anxiety might be becoming its own trigger, ie you had some initial bad feeling you didn't understand, and worry about that is now spiralling out of control.

I think that you have hit the nail on the head here, actually. I have a quote on my Profile here (I keep quotes from threads in my Visitor Messages):
"Worrying about your tendency to worry is the sign of a champion worrier!" - AnnabelMore 12/17/11, Phy's story thread on polyamory.com
Quote:

Originally Posted by wildflowers (Post 200087)
Glad that yesterday was a bit better.

Me too!:D I woke up this morning to a good start after a good night sleep - MrS was cuddled up against me and Dude was already awake with my coffee ready. We only have one obligation this weekend (dinner and a show with MrS's parents in the city tonight) and, since I got my work stuff caught up yesterday, I can just relax and do whatever I want with the rest of my time.

Here's to a good weekend for all!

JaneQ

JaneQSmythe 04-27-2013 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opalescent (Post 200127)
I hate to suggest this because it is *such* a stereotypical response to women experiencing emotional difficulties.

But, have you had your hormones checked recently? Thyroid for sure. Maybe others? Check with your doctor. Personally if I am generally angry at the world for no reason, my period is around the corner. It happen's often enough that I recognize the pattern now but it took a while to connect that rage over nothing to hormonal fluctuations as my body prepared to menstruate. Or if I am low in thyroid hormone, I am lethargic and sad. It's astonishing the power hormones can have over our emotional states. (Men too.)
...

And I don't know your age but there are hormonal long term changes as one ages. The shift from regular menses to perimenopause to full menopause, for example. Something to be aware of but, typically, every woman experiences these differently.

Good thoughts and I think that this may be part of it. I have had my thyroid checked a number of times in the past when this has come up and it has always been fine - but can't hurt to check again.

In terms of the other - I just turned 39 and I have a progesterone implant for contraception (which suppresses my cycles and helps with my endometriosis). For the first 18 months I had the implant I had light bleeding/spotting all of the time (which is better than endometriosis agony so I didn't mind) BUT had been noticing that I was hungry ALL of the time (similar to my "feeding week" when I was on OCPs) and was steadily gaining weight.

At the beginning of March I bled heavily for 2 days (like, scary heavy) and then the bleeding stopped altogether - the "hungry" went away and I was able to lose the 15# that I had gained rather easily (I was "trying" but I had been "trying" the whole time that I was putting it on as well - I'm just really bad at fighting the "hungry";)). So - definitely some hormonal swings going on here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by opalescent (Post 200127)
And I hate to be all up in your in business but have you talked to a doctor about going back on your SSRI? Some of those need titration to work properly and not cause bad side effects.

Thanks for pointing this out - especially for anyone else that is reading this thread. It is not a good idea to randomly stop/start/change psych meds on your own! The last time I tapered off, we actually discussed the plan for resuming should my symptoms recur...so I was all set with the correct dose etc. in case this came up. I'm to set up an appt with her 6 weeks in after resuming meds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by opalescent (Post 200127)
Wishing you the best and restful thoughts.

Thank you for your thoughts and concern - the support I receive here is very much appreciated.

JaneQ

FullofLove1052 04-27-2013 05:24 PM

I am so sorry things were so tough. I understand the analogy about waking up at 3 AM and swearing up and down that there is just something you must do, but then you forget. It is frustrating.

I am glad the last day of the week was been better for you, and I hope your weekend is relaxing.

Yoga is absolutely relaxing. I practise on daily basis--in and out of class. I have to empty my mind and relax my body. The best poses for alleviating anxiety are the child pose, headstands, backbends (I do this with and without a fitness ball), forward bend (meditation pose for me), legs up the wall, and the cat pose. It also helps to practise various styles. I have recently taken up Ashtanga Yoga. It is a bit more challenging, but it works wonders in getting the kinks out. I would definitely say do it at work, too. I have a yoga mat in my office, and if people start working my nerves, I retreat to my serene place and calm myself down.

I would also be mindful of your progesterone implant. Those implants can malfunction and cause increased anxiety and even depression. The side effects of medicines and said treatments can be more awful than the original reason for even taking them. If that is the cause, your doctor can prescribe something to counteract it. Congentin is sometimes used, or they opt to remove the implant and replace it with another kind.

I am glad that you had a plan in place for your SSRI in the event that you needed to get back on them.

Sending you hugs and hoping you have a pleasant evening with the in-laws and even more relaxed weekend with Dude and MrS!

Ry

JaneQSmythe 07-15-2013 12:56 AM

First Date!
 
So, our "co-habitating open poly vee" is just over two years old and going well. We've learned a lot about ourselves and our relationships.

Time for the next step...the next incline in the learning curve. At the two year mark we started talking about Dude starting to "actively" date (not that he couldn't have dated before - but he was not really "looking"). For the last three months he has been gradually working on his OKCupid profile and starting to message people as we talked about our concerns and personal boundaries as we enter this next phase of our poly lives.

He's had a number of very nice conversations with women (and sometimes their partners). And...tonight he is out on his first date! I'm, right now, in a pretty relaxed place. The timing seems very fortunate.

Dude and I had the weekend together alone - as MrS was at a music festival with MrClean. We had lots of interesting conversations, good sex, and bonding. MrS came home from the festival in a great mood - he got lots of attention from the sexy hippie chicks - dancing and flirting to music that he loves.

Before Dude left for his date, we showered together and held each other (and stuff). As he was leaving he looks me in the eyes and asks "Would you like it if I came home tonight?" Yes, yes I would - so, after a moment's hesitation, I said "Yes". I like how he phrased the question as a "preference" and not "permission". The hesitation stemmed from my own desire to live up to my ideal as a "perfect poly girlfriend" - but I decided to go easy on myself and just answer the damn question.

After Dude left, I showered MrS and he led me off to the bedroom for our own re-connection happy sex time. MrS and I don't have sex all that often - so this is really a special thing for me. He always does seem to time it for when it does me the most good (plus, he was all charged up from his weekend :D).

So...I am feeling - calm. satisfied. happy. good about myself. good about my boys. good about our relationships.

I am also feeling good about the woman that he is going out with. She is not that much younger than us, bisexual, polyamorous as well as being very smart and very interesting. Whether or not they hit it off - I'm sure that Dude will have a great time.

Deep breath...so far so good.

UPDATE: (since I am in the 12 hour window) Dude called me a few hours ago when he was on his way home and let me know he was on his way and that he had a good time and that she was just as smart and interesting as we thought - but even cuter in real life. Since he's gotten home we've been talking and sharing. I hope that she had as good of a time as he did.

Cleo 07-15-2013 09:02 AM

oooohh, that is such an interesting time, when one of your partners starts dating.

I'm happy for you that you are feeling good and calm about it. It can be a great new experience where you really learn a lot of new things about each other. Nice things and not so nice things (the not so nice things I learned were mostly about myself btw :))
Looking forward to updates about the new situation!

GalaGirl 07-15-2013 03:00 PM

Glad it went well! :)

GG

Nox 07-17-2013 02:13 PM

Really good to hear!

JaneQSmythe 07-18-2013 11:26 AM

So, she messaged him the next day that she had a good time but didn't really feel that there was any "chemistry" between them. Which Dude is perfectly okay with - after all, what are the chances? He really likes meeting new people regardless of where things end up going. She is still interested in meeting up with all of us - so I sent her a message via OKC that we are game for that when the boys get back. (I checked with Dude first that he was okay with this - don't want him to feel like I am "sniping" his potentials.)

Baby steps. Dude went on his first "date" and I didn't have a second of anxiety. I've got one hurdle under my belt now. Which gives me more confidence for the next round. (I have no qualms from a theoretical stand-point, mind you, but I sometimes get blind-sided by my emotional responses - did not happen.)

JaneQ

JaneQSmythe 08-02-2013 04:01 AM

Second Date - different chick
 
So yesterday Dude went on his second OKC date (different girl).

The first date (with the other girl), two weeks ago, there was a little treading on eggshells - where he asked me if I would like it if he came home (see above posts). We had some pre-his-date, post-his-date bonding...it went well from my end (how it went on their end is their business, but she didn't feel the "chemistry").

So, this second date was more open ended. She was going to meet him at a certain place, they would probably go out to eat, she could meet MrS or not depending on what time she decided to arrive (he had a scheduled thing and would be at the place for a defined period of time, regardless of when she decided to come). Dude didn't know if he would come home or not, etc.

AND?!?...fine, I'm fine. I really LIKE being fine. (And I think the fact that he asked me the first time, and then followed through contributed to my current "fine-ness".)

I had a few moments of indecision: should I text him like I usually do? - when I am done with work and when I am home. Would I interrupt them? I decided that, since we hadn't made any other arrangements, that I would just do what I normally do. So I sent my usual "No reply needed" txt's at the intervals I usually do - "done doing P, going to do Q"... Each time, Dude responded by calling me - "We are here, doing x, then we are going to do y or z." "Have a good time." was my sincere response.

Haven't really had the wrap-up debriefing for this second date yet. She left before MrS picked Dude up. There may, or may not, have been sex involved. (Doesn't matter either way to me - except to confirm that IF there was sex involved, WAS a condom used per our agreements and did they have a safer sex/STI talk? - after we have been through this a few times I won't feel the need to ask, I just need to learn whether this is ingrained). Dude and MrS are at a movie and meeting up with some folks and will come home (IF they come home) after I am in bed.

I did see them both for a few minutes - after the date and before the movie (but in a location where we could not talk freely). No weird vibes from my end. We'll find out more later...

JaneQ

PS. My biggest fear, at this point, is that Dude will want to share "too much" information. He has no filters (what-so-ever). I don't need every detail - the broad picture is good enough.

JaneQSmythe 08-02-2013 04:07 AM

It occurs to me...good thing this is my blog thread. Who the hell want's to listen to my "blow-by-blow" of each date my boyfriend goes on...? From the perspective of a non-involved party?

BTW - BP - I was thinking of you the other day, Dude was reading some "food-porn" out loud - the menu of a restaurant we are thinking checking out. MrS was all "stop torturing me if you aren't going to feed me...and I can't eat anyway" (he just had a tooth extraction). BDSM food-porn?

JaneQ

Cleo 08-02-2013 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe (Post 218794)
It occurs to me...good thing this is my blog thread. Who the hell want's to listen to my "blow-by-blow" of each date my boyfriend goes on...? From the perspective of a non-involved party?

I do! I do!

JaneQSmythe 08-02-2013 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleo (Post 218833)
I do! I do!

Thanks Cleo!

Woke up this morning to no boys :cool: - but a missed call and a txt on my phone letting me know that they had met up with some friends from the music festival and where they were crashing for the night. This pattern pre-dates Dude and has nothing to do with his "date" - I want EITHER boy(s) in my bed when I wake up OR a message letting me know that you are OK and not coming home - otherwise I get anxious. (The ONE time this didn't happen MrS had wrecked his car so...)

So, quiet house to myself this morning - just me and the animals, and coffee, and the internet. Nice.

JaneQ

wildflowers 08-03-2013 03:36 AM

My husband's just starting to venture into the dating world, so I've been having similar "wonder how I'm going to react to this" feelings. So far so good here as well. Definitely interested in hearing how it progresses:).

JaneQSmythe 08-09-2013 05:57 AM

De-briefing
 
So...to follow up. Got home late from work the next night and we all settled into our usual evening routine - each on our own computer, listening to music, and doing our own thing. After a little while I got up and kissed them goodnight and went to read in bed (working in the AM - had to get up early).

After a bit, Dude came and snuggled up against me for a few minutes and said "So do you want to hear about Jane2?"*. Hesitation (Am I ready to see how I respond to this? :rolleyes:). "Sure." He cuddles up with me..."Well, MrS dropped me off about the time that she was arriving and we all chatted for a bit, then MrS left to do his stuff, then we went inside and talked for a while, then we did x, then we did y, then we had the safer sex/STI talk and she told me p/d/q, and we talked about z. Then she said she wanted to have sex so we went up to bed and had sex...a couple of times.” >pause< I feel myself take a break to see if this disclosure makes me feel any different...It doesn't - *whew*! (I was pretty sure they had had sex, so this wasn't a real surprise.) >unpause< “Then we slept, then we woke up and fooled around. She left around noon to go take care of her cat and I slept for the rest of the afternoon until MrS picked me up.”

We cuddled for a bit and I told him that I HAD to know was that if they had sex, that they had used condoms, but I'm glad to know that they had a good time. We got up and went back out to the computers and I asked him if he wanted to read what I had written in my blog here. He did. When he got to this part:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe (Post 218793)
PS. My biggest fear, at this point, is that Dude will want to share "too much" information. He has no filters (what-so-ever). I don't need every detail - the broad picture is good enough.

...he turned to me and asked. “So, did I do okay?” “Yes, sweetie, you did fine.”

The next day he asked me if I had posted to let you all know that he had done alright:p. It's a little late in coming but – now you know. He did fine.

They've been talking on the phone since then and tonight we (Dude, Jane2, MrS and I) all went out to dinner at a great restaurant in the city that none of us had been to before. Everything was good but some stuff was REALLY good (I wouldn't do it justice the way that BP would, so I won't try – BUT “sour cream ice cream” = YUM!). Enjoyable food, enjoyable company, enjoyable conversation. I didn't sense any awkwardness and everyone had a good time.

I don't know that Dude and Jane2 are going to hit it off, become friends or FWBs, or what. But she is a nice, comfortable, interesting person. She's poly-knowledgeable and poly-friendly but not certain if she is interested in being involved in a poly/open relationship again, and he's not real certain about the attraction level (I'm not getting NRE vibes). Whatever happens with them, I feel like I have learned something in the process.

Jane(“I-still-like-being-FINE”)Q

*Funny coincidence but this girl and I share the same first name in real life. We (MrS and I) were teasing him that he was just trying to minimize the chances that he would get in trouble for calling someone the wrong name during an intimate moment.:p

Cleo 08-09-2013 10:29 AM

It all sounds very relaxed.. I am happy for you!

GalaGirl 08-10-2013 05:50 AM

Glad to hear things are unfolding well for you!

GG :)

JaneQSmythe 08-29-2013 01:23 AM

Caterpillar/Butterfly
 
Yowsa! So much has happened in August – hard to know where to start.

Dramatis Personae:

Old Characters:

Me, MrS and Dude – you already know (check sig for particulars)
MrClean – you might remember from such posts as "The MrClean Incident"and "A Night Out" (an update to those posts – he and his wife are in the process of divorcing – due to issues unrelated to those posts)
The Hippie-Freaks – (previously unnamed) basically the group of Dude's hometown friends that I met when we were "Coming Out...a little more."
Jane2 – Dude's second OKC date, starring in "Second Date - different chick" and "De-briefing".


New Characters: (coming up with four new aliases that I will remember is HARD...)

Gotsy – woman I met and messaged with on OKC
Abby – ah, you will have to read on....! >grin<
TBC – Abby's husband
Kola – Abby and TBC's girlfriend

The Background:

Dude has put himself in self-imposed quarantine for the month while he is undergoing a medical treatment (nothing serious, no worries – he just doesn't want to expose himself to infection...and he is coming home on Monday!). MrS has a few concerts/music events that he is planning on attending. I have been looking for other poly-bi-married women on OKC to talk to.

The Story: “How an introverted caterpillar gets cast in the role of social butterfly.”

Gotsy messages me on OKC – she is another poly-bi-married woman and happens to be fairly local. We chat. She is in a 6-7 person poly chain. She has a husband and a boyfriend. Her boyfriend has a wife, the wife has a boyfriend, etc. Her husband is dating but not in another relationship right now. There is a Meet-Up coming up soon...she invites me/us to attend with her/some of them. I was hoping that all three of us could go to a Meet-Up together, but...what the hell...I talk to the boys and RSVP for MrS and I to go. (For the record, this Meet-Up is not “poly-only” - a broader range of polys/swingers/kinksters attend).

The Meet-Up:

So MrS and I show up, Gotsy isn't there yet, we get food and drinks and MrS chats with some folks while I keep trying to re-swallow my pounding heart because there are SO MANY people I don't know. (Apparently this was a larger than usual turnout.) And, I am really worried that I won't recognize Gotsy (her OKC pics all look so different). The food was good – but I could barely eat, hadn't slept much in the last 24 hours, and was drinking way too fast. MrS kept feeding me oysters (isn't that supposed to be an aphrodisiac?)...

Gotsy arrives at the event. I DO recognize her (...and she recognizes me from a description of us I gave her – I don't have ID-able photos on OKC). We hug, we chat a bit, she introduces us to about 6-ba-jillion people that I won't remember. She excuses herself to go talk to some other folks for a bit. I take a deep breath....(whew). We socialize, MrS is his usual supportive loving self – initiating conversations, fetching drinks and food, drawing me into conversations. I drink a few more beers. I have to pee.

So, I am on my way back from the ladies room...and there is this woman sitting at the bar. (MrS is on the deck.) She looks at me. There are a few people between us. She is commenting to a guy that she is obviously there with. I lose sight of her. Some guy we talked to earlier says something to me. I might have said something back. People move. She is still looking at me. >something clicks< I find myself flowing into the space between her and her guy. “Hi.” I say. And then...

(story to be continued)

opalescent 08-29-2013 02:35 AM

AND?!...

Really, that was cruel.

Details posthaste JQS!

(Now rant is over, it seems like things are exciting! Go you!)

MeeraReed 08-29-2013 11:33 PM

Hey, get back here and finish your story, Ms. Jane!

What a cliffhanger!

YouAreHere 08-30-2013 12:31 AM

Teeeeeease!

JaneQSmythe 08-31-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opalescent (Post 225088)
AND?!...

Really, that was cruel.

Details posthaste JQS!...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeeraReed (Post 225289)
Hey, get back here and finish your story, Ms. Jane!

What a cliffhanger!

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouAreHere (Post 225297)
Teeeeeease!

Gee!...and "The Quiz" only rates me as a 54% Sadist...but that was a good one wasn't it?! Anticipa-


(wait for it...)


-tion!

(Sorry folks, I was contemplating the next installment and got...distracted :p.)

JaneQSmythe 08-31-2013 12:48 PM

The Meet-Up - Part 2
 
...and THEN... Wow!

I wish I could give you (and me!) a blow-by-blow description but...it is all such a blur of talking and touching and skin and kissing and beer and ice and excitement. The following is my best reconstruction after interviewing the participants after the fact.

******

I learned her name. I learned that she is in a D/s relationship with her brand-new (less than 1 mos) husband. I am fascinated. I learned that they have a girlfriend (not present). I learned that her instructions for the evening were to wear no panties and a short dress but NO cleavage (SOOO frustrating – in a deliciously tantalizing way). I learned she kisses like MrS's ex and has tits like my VV...

At some point in my 'education' MrS wanders over to the bar. “Ah, I see you made yourself some friends...:D.” I detach my mouth from Abby's earlobe long enough to introduce them. “And this is ...Abby's husband.” He shakes my husband's hand. “I'm TBC...not that anyone is paying attention :p.” (From the man that has been whispering helpful suggestions in my ear for the last eternity as I attempt to seduce his wife...firmly wedged between her smooth thighs with his hand on my ass.)

We talk (all of us).. We drink (me more than them). There is kissing and fondling and ...we are in a public place! (Don't let your imaginations run wild, people, or do...a little bit :rolleyes:.) We give the new bartender some stories to tell...MrS comes to check on me and goes to chat with more people. “I see you are in “good hands”...:p.” I fail to realize that I am racking up quite the bar-tab with high-test beer (bad JaneQ...bad, naughty girl!;)).

At some point, I fail to realize that I am no longer registering the formation of new memories...(that's OK – MrS is there to make sure that I don't get raped or arrested...standard protocol when I go on one of my “hedonist benders”). Which is quite a shame...there's bits there that I'm sure I would re-play if I could remember them. I DO remember that when we took a break to order drinks and chat a bit more, that one of the attendees said something along the lines of: “Are you two going to be getting back to the kissing part? Some of us are really appreciating that...” I DON'T remember Abby's reply, but I DO remember that it was brilliant.

At some point she got up to use the WC and ...par for the course...I discovered that TBC is the PERFECT kissing height when you are as short as I am. (My boys are both so damn tall.) - and I really wish I remembered that part, 'cause I'm pretty sure it was as delightful as I imagine it was...Apparently, I pulled my “I'm so little and suddenly lonely and ...hey, you're cute.” routine.:eek:

At some point, the bar had to close and MrS managed to herd my drunken grinning self to the car and get me home (at which point he calls Dude to report that made a drunken ass out of myself but he managed to get 'McDrunky-Molests-a-lot' home in one piece...and that I had a really good time.)

Nobody seems to remember how I skinned my knee...

BrigidsDaughter 08-31-2013 12:52 PM

You sound like you had quite the night. :)

Phy 08-31-2013 03:33 PM

I enjoyed reading about your evening. Sounds totally great :D Would love to party with you, must be fun ;)

The last evening I wasn't able to remember completely was our eve-of-wedding-party. But there were so many fotos that I was able to piece everything together the next day :o

JaneQSmythe 08-31-2013 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrigidsDaughter (Post 225622)
You sound like you had quite the night. :)

Yes, yes I did. I don't get out much. But when I do, I really make up for it :D!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phy (Post 225634)
I enjoyed reading about your evening. Sounds totally great :D Would love to party with you, must be fun ;)

Dear Phy - I'm glad you enjoyed it. If either of us cross the ocean I'd totally love to meet you and your guys. (And I'd like to to visit the local brothel - the concept fascinates me. I've only seen them fictionalized on TV. When I was in Germany - 20+ years ago - I missed the chance.)

JaneQ

JaneQSmythe 08-31-2013 11:03 PM

Interlude
 
So, I wake up the next morning feeling … GRAND! How is this possible?:confused: I should be suffering from a hell of a hangover (8% beers are NOT session beers ferchrisake) and instead my cheeks hurt from smiling and I'm feeling all wiggly.

MrS wakes up and I grill him for details. Groan...Way to make a first impression, JaneQ, you drunken slut. :rolleyes: Grrrr... WAIT?! Did anyone exchange contact info?! MrS tells me that Abby told him she'd get my OKC name from Gotsy. I go to work. I come home. I get on my computer. Joy! An OKC message from Abby.:)

I'm on the computer writing to Abby (yum!) and Gotsy on OKC (thanking her for convincing me to come to the meet-up). I post to the Meet-Up page. MrS is on the phone with Dude: “Yeah, she feels fine, she's online writing her mea culpa letters...”

I talk to Dude later that night. He is doing okay but starting to feel the effects of two weeks of isolation. He has been messaging/talking with a few women from OKC and spending many hours on the phone with Jane2.

I briefly consider keeping my opinions to myself – but remember that he was hurt when he learned that I saw the train-wreck of CrazyGirl coming and didn't warn him because I thought it was “none of my business”. I gently point out that he has decided that he is not interested in this girl romantically, but talking on the phone with her 4-8 hours a day may be sending a different message (Dude misses a lot of social cues :cool:). He feels that they are on the same page, but agrees that it is a good idea to double-check explicitly. (He does, they are – two smart, interesting, chatty people who like to talk to each other – great!.)

Meanwhile on OKC, I hear back from Gotsy and Abby. Gotsy is glad I had a good time and thrilled that I hit it off with Abby (and TBC). She mentioned an upcoming event and asked if the three of us (me, MrS, Dude) might be attending. Abby writes me back and says that she and TBC and their girlfriend are going to a kink picnic (a similarly mixed poly/swinger/kinkster event) the next weekend. Would I be interested in attending? (Hell, YES! - if you are going to be there luscious...:p)

I say I'll look into it...

JaneQSmythe 09-11-2013 01:34 AM

Aside...OMG, I sooooo need to get back and finish the story but life keeps going on-and-on ... and the story gets longer-and-longer. Suffice it to say: I'm loving life right now and and the boys are doing fine!

JaneQSmythe 09-11-2013 02:54 AM

The Picnic
 
So... I...created a FetLife profile, (I've been avoiding doing this because I don't see myself as particularly “kinky”), and RSVP to the picnic. NEITHER of my boys are available to accompany me! Woe is me – what is a girl to do?! MrS is going to a show with The Hippie-Freaks and Dude is in self-quarantine. In a fit of genius (and desperation – I soooo want to see this girl again) I know - I'll ask MrClean to be my “minder”/driver for the day (he happens to live about 2 minutes from the venue). He agrees (and has a brief talk with MrS about what is expected of him).

We arrive at the picnic and I am nervous/shy/scared. We spread our blanket and I dive into the beer we brought (Does anyone notice a pattern here? I have to get over this.). I don't see my people for a while and try to relax into “people-watching” mode. I finally spot TBC – but the girl he is snuggling with is not Abby (I suspect it may be the, as yet unnamed, shared girlfriend). He gives me an adorable raised eyebrow – which I acknowledge and then turn away. (I'm not ready...at least until Abby is on the scene.)

MrClean asks me if I want him to approach TBC and initiate conversation. I need to settle for a bit. We chat and people watch. Out of the corner of my eye I watch TBC get up and go over to a girl in the “cigar circle” - Aha! There is Abby. After speaking with her for a few minutes TBC comes by and we chat for a second and he notes that the next round of food is coming off the grill. We go get food and, as we head to our blanket, he invites us to come share theirs. We eat and I send MrClean off to grab our stuff and join our blanket/cooler with theirs. We make our introductions with Kola (the shared girlfriend) and drink and eat. After a bit, Abby joins us. At first she doesn't seem to notice us...and I worry that she doesn't recognize me. Then we start up a conversation and I relax...

I spend the next several hours with my butt planted firmly in their blanket territory with a few forays out into the rest of the kinky picnic. Drinking. Talking. Flirting. At some point MrClean wanders off and I find him by the grappling mat. He stands with his arms around me...while TBC fondles my thigh (or tries to … my car keys are in my pocket and in the way). I stop at some point to watch some rope-play (after asking permission) – and find myself with my wrists bound to some (hot, sexy, quivering) chick's harness – what's a girl to do except roll with the moment and suspend her from my forearms between my legs? (So hot!)

People stop by the blanket. We chat. Some folks I recognized from the meet-up. One asks my name for the human scavenger hunt (as a “mischief maker” - others agree >grin<). I explain that my boys are not available – so MrClean had to step in as my “minder”/chauffer/chaperone/boy toy. Are there “rules”? Not really. His job is to see to it that I: a.) don't get arrested, b.) don't get raped, and c.) only go home with him. A few hours in, he has to go check-in with his soon-to-be-ex and their kids. We agree that I am not likely to get arrested or raped and make arrangements for either TBC/Abby/Kola to drop me off at his place OR he will come and get me. He mentions that he has a pool and invites us/them back if they are interested. (Kola puts his info in her phone...just in case.)

More drinking/flirting ensue. It starts to get dark. The picnic starts to clear out. I drop by the rope-folks blanket again and just HAVE to tug on her new (rough rope, breast bondage) set-up with my teeth. (Again, after asking permission.) This leads to some nuzzling, kissing, etc. (“Not on the lips.” he says...more on this later*.) We pack up. MrClean calls – should he pick me up? I tell him we are heading to his place. Be prepared. We arrive at MrClean's a few minutes later and skinny-dipping in his pool ensues for the next several hours. (I could go on and on about this part actually...it was every bit as enjoyable as you think it was!)

Abby/TBC/Kola have to leave...they have plans for the AM. I'm spending the night at MrClean's. We are on the couch nuzzling and cuddling and I tell him: “I want to play with you and kiss you and cuddle you. But we are NOT having sex.” (I actually discussed this with MrS and Dude beforehand...but this is MY decision. I don't think that this would be a good thing for MrClean. He is looking for something other than what I have to offer – he is a monogamist at heart.. BUT, he has been crushing on me for a long while...which might over-ride his ideals. MrS said: “I agree. But if you DO have sex, remember to use condoms.”) MrClean's response?: “Well, THAT is certainly straight-forward.” We go to bed, we fool around, we do not have sex. In the morning, I wake up and drive home.

I am grinning yet again....

JaneQSmythe 09-11-2013 03:30 AM

*More...so what is the issue?
 
So, what's the issue!?

From my point there is no issue, only a failure at communication. But, since I failed at it twice I think I might benefit from some outside input.

So, I am entirely new to the whole “kinky” scene. From my standpoint – I am exploring the possibilities but I don't know the etiquette, so I am cautious. (I know that some people see poly as inherently kinky but it doesn't feel that way to me...I've ID'd as poly for decades...it seems vanilla at this point. “Kinky” still means “stuff I don't do” - i.e. if I do it it then in is just “regular” stuff.)

But...I am interested in this rope-play/bondage thing. So I ask if I can watch, I get invited to participate a little, I come back for a little more. This is HOT stuff!

So, I am trying to convey to Dude what I have learned about myself and my reactions to this exposure:

I really liked the “rope” part...but I had a negative reaction to the guy (dude doing the tying) telling me what I could and could not do with “his” girl. (“Not on the lips.”) Now, don't get me wrong – I had no inclination, at all, in any way, to over-ride this or press any boundaries in this case. I was asking for an invitation to THEIR party and have NO say in how they structure their interactions. But, MY personal preference, (as a complete newbie and interloper) would be to hear any restrictions from the mouth of the person that I am interacting with directly. (i.e. if this was a negotiated, on-going “thing” and not a random one-off event).

Dude basically went off on me and told me that I am a horrible person. That that could never happen within the boundaries of a D/s dynamic and that she CAN'T be the one to tell me what the boundaries are – and that I am asking someone to break their contract by even communicating with me. Whoa, Nelly! From my perspective, I am simply observing my reactions and what my preferences would be. I really don't understand where the vehemence is coming from.

I talked to my girl, VV, and she understood where I was coming from. So I tried again with Dude, same response. So, I see a couple of possibilities here – a.) other people are allowed to have their preferences but I am NOT (which seems weird) b.) there are unbreakable tenets of BDSM of which I am unaware (which is entirely possible – but negotiation would seem to be one of them) c.) Dude is familiar with a model of BDSM that is not universal (which seems the most likely explanation to me – seeing as how he was exposed to the lifestyle without being a part of it, per se)

Comments welcome. (I don't ever want to upset someone's dynamic, but I do want to be able to express my own comfort levels/preferences...is there a way to do both...or should I just bow out of the whole "kinky" scene now before I upset someone?)

JaneQ

fuchka 09-11-2013 10:23 AM

Okay, well, I am not a kink scenester as such, I'm more into fucking about at home, but my take:

You absolutely need to know your preferences, and be able to vocalise them. Yes, negotiation is a basic tenet :)

Thinking of Dude's reaction, though... Sometimes I get disproportionately righteous in response to someone nudging a precious thing that I feel is generally misunderstood. I wonder if it's the same here for Dude.

Some people's dynamics definitely would mean that you could not hear boundaries directly from a sub. This challenges the social convention of strength / independence as being able to speak up for yourself. It can make people uncomfortable, and uncertain of a sub's agency.

While you were only expressing your comfort levels and possible boundaries, sometimes these boundaries themselves can trigger a strong response from others, when the boundaries seem to be based on a misunderstanding. Does that make sense?

You're saying: this made me uncomfortable.

Dude may be reacting how he is because he thinks: what's making you uncomfortable about this? Do you misunderstand how these dynamics can work? Do you not get how she can consent to this, how she can be okay with the Dom speaking for her? i.e. is your discomfort because you misjudge the situation?

I'm not saying he's right, and obviously I have no idea why he's reacting the way he is. But... it could be that, maybe.

fuchka 09-11-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

At some point, the bar had to close and MrS managed to herd my drunken grinning self to the car and get me home (at which point he calls Dude to report that made a drunken ass out of myself but he managed to get 'McDrunky-Molests-a-lot' home in one piece...and that I had a really good time.)
This cracked me up, seriously.

I've had my share of situations where I've had to be looked after... It's funny when I hear my partners commiserate over me being drunkenly belligerent or similar.

'McDrunky-Molests-a-lot' is gold.

london 09-11-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

so MrClean had to step in as my “minder”/chauffer/chaperone/boy toy. Are there “rules”? Not really. His job is to see to it that I: a.) don't get arrested, b.) don't get raped, and c.) only go home with him
See here, what would you expect him to do if things did cross a line? Would he have spoken for you?

See, if I went somewhere with my Daddy and was playing with other people, I'd want to stay in sub mode so he would be the one to stop the Great Unwashed clawing at me. Our dynamic means that he says what goes, especially when we are together, so he would be the one to enforce my boundaries. I'd prefer that though I would speak up if he didn't.

The thing about power exchanges is that it means one person does belong, is answerable, to the other. She isn't 'his' girl, she is his girl. If that concept makes you uncomfortable than yes, keep it vanilla or with unattached people. That's not to say everyone expresses their dynamic in that way, but what happened there really isn't unusual or particularly full on.

GalaGirl 09-11-2013 01:07 PM

If you are digging the rope -- look up a dungeon and take a rope class. Learn to do it safely. It can be fun. And remember... like with anything else... "my rope style is not your rope style." ;)

To me? You did fine. You asked permission, you do realize your joined THEIR already in progress scene.

You don't know what they agreed to as the boundaries for that scene, and if the D/s overtones was for that scene only or a 24/7 arrangement or what.

I see that you prefer to know that stuff from the person's mouth directly, but the scene was already in progress. Maybe they didn't want to stop the mental flow. Or maybe he knows something you don't -- like kissing on the lips when she's in subspace wigs her out?

Next time if you want to honor your own preferences... you negotiate that up front before the scene starts with the players if you are going to participate. But for stumbling in on someone else's thing being played out in a "public space" you asked permission and they could have said yes/no to you.

Dude's response? Well, it seemed to push his buttons some how.

You could apologize for pushing his buttons inadvertently.
You could ask him to apologize to YOU for attacking your character and telling you that you are horrible rather than giving you feedback on your behavior. (That was not inadvertent.)
You could ask him if he's willing to clarify how your behavior was wrong.
Could remind him you ARE allowed to have your own preferences -- just like he gets to have his. You are allowed to discover you HAVE some preferences in this new world in these new situations. Could ask how you having preferences of your own is preventing him from having his preferences?

Or you could let it go. (Or could do something else I cannot think of right now.)

Maybe Dude's preferences/experiences frown on "topping from the bottom" once a scene is in progress. And the sub in this case speaking up falls in that zone to him? So your stating your preferences is pushing that button?

On the flip side... some people LIKE topping from the bottom. *shrug*

Or maybe he felt judged or triggered by HOW you expressed your preference? Not so much that you have one, but HOW you shared it with him? Only he knows. :/

Galagirl

JaneQSmythe 09-12-2013 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by london (Post 228020)
See here, what would you expect him to do if things did cross a line? Would he have spoken for you?

Not exactly sure where you are going with this but, yes, if things were heading to "out of hand" then he most certainly would have spoken for me - we are friends. Friends help keep friends from getting into trouble/making bad mistakes.

Ultimately, I am responsible for my own behavior. BUT, if I make a mistake in judgement and get myself into a situation where I am too fucked up to be responsible for myself (or too physically weak/small to extricate myself from a situation) then he, as my friend, would do what it took to keep me safe (as I would do the same for him - except that I am not physically strong enough to toss him over my shoulder and put him in the car and drive him home).

Having a "minder" is a back-up plan in case I make a mistake. (Although, to be honest, as a friend-not-partner, it would be really rude of me to put him in this position - so I am likely to be a LOT more careful than if I was with MrS or Dude.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by london (Post 228020)
See, if I went somewhere with my Daddy and was playing with other people, I'd want to stay in sub mode so he would be the one to stop the Great Unwashed clawing at me. Our dynamic means that he says what goes, especially when we are together, so he would be the one to enforce my boundaries. I'd prefer that though I would speak up if he didn't.

The thing about power exchanges is that it means one person does belong, is answerable, to the other. She isn't 'his' girl, she is his girl.... That's not to say everyone expresses their dynamic in that way, but what happened there really isn't unusual or particularly full on.

And this is the type of thing that I am observing and learning from. I am also noticing what my reaction is to these situations and what my preferences are. Which is why I think that this not "unusual or particularly full on" events are a good introduction for people that are just looking into kink for the first time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by london (Post 228020)
If that concept makes you uncomfortable than yes, keep it vanilla or with unattached people.

And my point is that I didn't know it would make me uncomfortable until I was presented with the situation (since I have no a priori objection on a theoretical level). And is my discomfort because this is all new or because I have a fundamental issue because of underlying assumptions that I have about how relationships and sexuality work? For me, going to these "soft kink" "newbie friendly" events is a way to understand both the lifestyle and my responses.

So I went, I observed, I dipped my toes in the water and I had a little insight into myself. Which I wanted to discuss with my partner. Who had a reaction that felt out of proportion to what I was saying - which puzzled me.

Everyone's responses have been helpful in helping me gain new perspective.
Thank you.

JaneQ

london 09-12-2013 08:33 AM

Quote:

Not exactly sure where you are going with this but, yes, if things were heading to "out of hand" then he most certainly would have spoken for me - we are friends. Friends help keep friends from getting into trouble/making bad mistakes.
So why did it unsettle you that he was speaking for her? Your friend/minder/boytoy would have spoken up for you if someone else was doing things you would have taken objection to, so why was it different with this guy and his girl?


Quote:

o me? You did fine. You asked permission, you do realize your joined THEIR already in progress scene.

You don't know what they agreed to as the boundaries for that scene, and if the D/s overtones was for that scene only or a 24/7 arrangement or what.

I see that you prefer to know that stuff from the person's mouth directly, but the scene was already in progress. Maybe they didn't want to stop the mental flow. Or maybe he knows something you don't -- like kissing on the lips when she's in subspace wigs her out?

Next time if you want to honor your own preferences... you negotiate that up front before the scene starts with the players if you are going to participate. But for stumbling in on someone else's thing being played out in a "public space" you asked permission and they could have said yes/no to you.
Also this ^^

JaneQSmythe 09-12-2013 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by london (Post 228611)
So why did it unsettle you that he was speaking for her? Your friend/minder/boytoy would have spoken up for you if someone else was doing things you would have taken objection to, so why was it different with this guy and his girl?

Ah...now I see the disconnect. My minder is there to protect me from my own bad decisions, and only secondarily, and in extreme cases, from other people. As my friend/minder, MrClean would have spoken TO ME if MY behavior was getting out of control in terms of getting arrested/raped/absconded with - i.e. I decided to do a strip tease down mainstreet, follow people into dark alleys or accompany people into panel vans.

He would have taken me aside and reminded me that I was drunk and not using my best judgement and that he had agreed to help me be safe for the evening and then convinced me that it was time to go home. If someone ELSE was doing something that I would have taken objection to - I would have been telling them off MYSELF and he would only step in if they were ignoring my objections or preventing him from doing his "friend-job" of keeping me safe (i.e. preventing him from talking to me/convincing me to go home). The only time that he would have "spoken up for me" directly is if I was actually incapacitated (i.e. passed out drunk and someone was messing with me).

Kind of like a "Living Will" - the clause only kicks in if someone is actually incapable of speaking for themselves. The "minder" role is a safety-net of last resort - for if I screw up and let myself go too far. Under usual circumstances the "minder" role never comes into play and he would just be the "designated driver".

JaneQ

Dirtclustit 09-13-2013 09:14 AM

Might want to be extremely cautious
 
Not a good idea to be involved with people you don't know very well and fully trust. Never is it a good idea to become involved in any scene without talking directly to all involved or being present when his sub is explicitly agreeing to exactly what is to be done and even then take no part what-so-ever unless you know them very well.

If you aren't careful it could be the hardest lesson you will ever learn, always be suspicious of anyone who lets you be a part of any restraint scenes without knowing you very well, as it is likely they will teach you a lesson in making sure you took every precaution necessary to ensure you did have consent and that it was desired, blackmail is not fun and can turn your life into a living hell

I wouldn't even watch, unless I was close friends with all participants

opalescent 09-13-2013 12:22 PM

BDSM as the Star Trek Mirror Universe? Well, Kinda
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe (Post 227845)
I really liked the “rope” part...but I had a negative reaction to the guy (dude doing the tying) telling me what I could and could not do with “his” girl. (“Not on the lips.”) Now, don't get me wrong – I had no inclination, at all, in any way, to over-ride this or press any boundaries in this case. I was asking for an invitation to THEIR party and have NO say in how they structure their interactions. But, MY personal preference, (as a complete newbie and interloper) would be to hear any restrictions from the mouth of the person that I am interacting with directly. (i.e. if this was a negotiated, on-going “thing” and not a random one-off event).

Dude basically went off on me and told me that I am a horrible person. That that could never happen within the boundaries of a D/s dynamic and that she CAN'T be the one to tell me what the boundaries are – and that I am asking someone to break their contract by even communicating with me. Whoa, Nelly! From my perspective, I am simply observing my reactions and what my preferences would be. I really don't understand where the vehemence is coming from.

BDSM is disconcerting. It is especially so when new to it at least in my experience. There is SO MUCH in BDSM that I would not want to be around if it appeared in a non-BDSM context. For example, I know folks who are in Master/Slave relationships. I find M/s disturbing. It is not something I can wrap my head around. I fundamentally do not get why anyone would give up that much control over their life - or accept that level of control over someone else. But the people I know in M/s relationships, it was freely chosen, and they are happy. I intensely dislike humiliation scenes. I do not understand why someone would want that, would find it cathartic and maybe even hot. But people do.

BDSM is not exactly 'opposite land' to mainstream, everyday life. Generally, what is socially appropriate in everyday life works just fine in BDSM contexts. For me, it was weird, as an adult, independent, woman to find that some women agree to be in a relationship where she cannot speak for herself in some contexts. (And some men and transfolk do so too.) I am used to that dynamic now, but it still disturbs me.

In my little corner of the kinky universe, I talk to whoever I want to talk to, scene with, etc. They are responsible for telling me if their agreements are such that I need to speak with their Domme, Dom, Master, etc. It's not my job to magically discern their agreements. It is my job to respect those agreements once I am aware of them, even if I find them stupid or odd.

The one exception to the 'talk to who I want to talk to' rule is if someone is in the middle of a scene - similar to your situation. I don't interrupt or impinge on scenes - that is bad form wherever you go in BDSM land! But if invited, or had some situation where I had to interact with people in a scene, I don't talk to the person who is being acted upon - the bottom, or sub. I would talk to the person running the scene, the top, or dominant. One reason is that it is simply polite to direct questions to the 'one in charge' in this context. The other reason is that bottoms or subs may be in subspace. Subspace is an altered state. People in subspace may not be able or want to communicate. Talking to someone else besides the top may jerk them out of subspace, which is no fun and can be disconcerting on its own too. So your directing questions to the sub, while appropriate in any other context, may have impinged on her subspace and thus changed the experience for her.

I have no way of knowing if this is true. Don't feel guilty or bad or that you did anything wrong. There is no way to know this stuff before experiencing it. The time to ask about restrictions directly from the sub (and dom too) is before the scene, when the scene is being negotiated. But you were drawn into a scene after it began, after their negotiations were done. It happens, it can be hot, but it's not 'best practice' so to speak. Again, no harm, no foul - just something to know.

Generally, again speaking from my own limited experiences, people are forgiving of new people learning. After all, everyone was new once, even the domliest doms from Ye Leather Olde Guard.

As for Dude, no idea. When I have an experience where my reaction is outsized and overly vehement to the situation - which happens more than I like - it's usually not about the situation or even the other person. There is something going on internally. Maybe Dude is having something similar go on?

GalaGirl 09-13-2013 02:53 PM

Quote:

Kind of like a "Living Will" - the clause only kicks in if someone is actually incapable of speaking for themselves. The "minder" role is a safety-net of last resort - for if I screw up and let myself go too far. Under usual circumstances the "minder" role never comes into play and he would just be the "designated driver".
Again... maybe he knows something you don't about her in her subspace. She may not be capable of speaking.

Maybe this could help you see a taste of that side of it.

http://www.asubmissivesjourney.com/s..._subspace.html

Galagirl

JaneQSmythe 10-02-2013 03:21 AM

Social Butterfly Swept Away by Tsunami
 
OMG...so much has happened since my last post I forget where I even am in the story...we got off on the BDSM tangent.

I'll have to fill out the details later but...long story slightly shorter: Dude seems to have found himself a girlfriend. We'll call her Lotus. AND...she is awesome! Married, Bi, Poly and just my age (and SO sexy).

Longer Version: He had been txting/writing to her while talking to the first two girls on OKC. They have several interests in common (which I don't share, but MrS does) and we ALL have other interests in common.

First Date - Their first "date" was a little different in that it was a group thing - Me, MrS, Dude, her, and a (male/partnered/mono) friend of Dude's from previous posts (his girlfriend couldn't come). We all went to dinner, concert, out for snacks, and then to her place to talk long into the night (her hubs was asleep). They didn't even kiss but lots of dancing, touching, sitting close. Both agreed that there was enough interest there to get together again.

Second Date - ALSO not solo. This time just the four of us for dinner and out for drinks after. Interestingly enough, I ended up meeting her mom and she met my parents as we collected everyone for dinner. (We teased Dude that he'll have to just let my parents be his "stand-ins" since he doesn't talk to his own.)

Third Date - STILL not solo. Another concert, this time with the four of us and her husband, who we will call TT. Dinner, concert, then back to their place. MrS ended up crashing but the rest of us ended up drinking, playing and fooling around and ... etc. etc. She and I ended up talking and bonding - no issues there.

...unfortunately at this point Dude (who has no filter) tried to start a conversation at, what I felt, was an inappropriate time (i.e. everyone worked up, excited, mostly drunk, not clear headed...more later) and we ended up having a huge disagreement (at least on MY side - he was clueless about how upset I actually was, long story).

Anyway - after the Third Date, MrS and I ended up going home and Dude stayed at Lotus/TT's house for the next day or so...(yes, sex happened)

Dude came home and we worked our stuff out (Thank God!)...over a couple of conversations.

Anyway, Fourth Date - this one actually solo - TT being out of town. Dude went up to Lotus's house Sunday afternoon and stayed through today.

**********

Obviously , this is really early in the game but four "dates" in 4 weeks with 2 sleepovers and everyone doing fine seems ... good.

She and I seem to be developing a flirty-friend/FWB dynamic while both really interested in seeing how things develop between her and Dude as the main focus. They both say that, basically, they are interested in finding an OSO for a LTR, neither seems interested in casual dating once they are poly-saturated.

She and MrS get along just fine (OKC rates them the highest match actually - she's 99% with MrS, 97% with me and 96% with Dude - another source of teasing.)

I'm curious as to how her husband feels about the dynamics developing....he's the hardest for me to read and I don't know much about the history there yet. I'm happy to play with him as part of a group thing (I'm fine with casual fun sexy times) but don't see that developing into anything.

*****************

On a side note, she also happens to be a Pro-Domme. Given the recent conversation here I feel like I now have an "in" to explore and ask questions on a personal level. I find it funny that I am intrigued by the whole "kinky" scene just because of my exposure via poly and Dude ends up dating a Pro-Domme randomly. (Despite living in a BDSM "house" for a while he doesn't ID as kinky either - but has had much more exposure than I have...hence the earlier conversation/confusion.

**********

This is probably too long and incoherent...but I wanted to give you all an update. I haven't been posting much because life has been INTERESTING!

JaneQ

Cherrypie725 10-23-2013 08:19 PM

I just read your blog " the journey" from start to finish and some of this blog's posts... I LOVE them! Although your transition to being "with" Dude while maintaining your marriage with MrS seems fraught with more turmoil that my current situation so far... I shared a lot of the same moments... including G calling me a jackass.and me feeling like one... anyways it's not often in my life that I feel like someone understands me and is on the same wavelengthbut your story really resonates with me. I hope you keep blogging and thank you so much for sharing your story I doubt you know how truly helpful it is.

-Cherry

JaneQSmythe 01-23-2014 04:35 AM

I can't believe how long it's been since I've posted in this thread...

Been kind of swept up in incorporating Lotus into our lives, I think. (Some group NRE at play :D)

It's been over four months and the multiple tiers of the "polymath" have been growing and learning and evolving.

I was talking to Dude the other day and it seems like this "relationship tangle" includes a lot of "firsts" - Dude's first experience being a hinge, my first experience being a metamour, Lotus's first poly "boyfriend" (as opposed to FWB?). I actually am quite proud of how smoothly things have progressed.

Intermixed with all of this has been a number of medical things to deal with. MrS (who has a dental phobia) had a tooth issue to deal with...as did Dude (who has a needle phobia). In December I had to have a minor medical procedure due to an abnormal pap (MrS went with me). Earlier this month Dude found a lump in my right breast and I had to go for a mammo/usn and Lotus went with me (no worries, only a cyst).

Just this week - Lotus got bad news back on a biopsy she had done and had to go back for a more significant procedure. She asked for all of us to come spend time with her the night before so the boys packed up the dogs (and a change of clothes for me) and we all met up at her place for cuddles and comfort. I had to go to work today but the boys (and dogs) stayed at her place while her hubby took her to the procedure.

I read a lot of posts on this forum about "what if I NEED someone...and they aren't available" - but for us it seems like one of the added benefits of poly is that there is ALWAYS someone available. Someone to go to a dentist/doctor/testing appt, someone to take care of the dogs, someone to cover the expenses, etc. Everyone willing to step up to the plate...I am blessed to have such people in my chosen family.

Tonight I am home alone sans boys, sans dogs...and I am fine - GOOD, in fact. Holding down the fort (with a bastard cat to help) and glad that Lotus has the support she needs right now. Only wishing I could be with her/them...

JaneQSmythe 01-25-2014 03:13 AM

Have I mentioned lately how perfectly adorable my husband is sometimes?:p

*******

So, last night the boys and dogs came home after spending a few days at Lotus's (and TT's) house - supporting and comforting her though her procedure and fears.

MrS is giving me an "I'm home!" hug...as we are pulling apart (so I can go greet Dude)... his face lights up in this astonished happy GRIN: "She kissed me!" (If he was a wiggler, he would have wiggled :D - if I was a 'puter-savvy chick I would put a clip here of that scene from "The Princess Bride" where Buttercup kisses the king and says "...I won't be seeing you again since I'm killing myself once we reach the honeymoon suite. " - and the king turns and says to his wife "...She kissed me!..."

I hug him again - he is SOOO CUTE - "Like, did she kiss you 'good-bye'..." (she has been working up to getting him used to this) - "... or did she "kiss you" - kiss you?" "She KISSED me!" "Did she kiss you all warm and soft and sweet and ...?!" His eyes go wide, and he nods - all smiles, and astonished-like. (I wiggle for him, give him an extra squeeze and go to greet Dude).

******

(I don't really know why MrS is always so surprised when sexy girls want to be with him...it's not like it's that uncommon...he's just so oblivious sometimes!)

******

For the record: kissing Lotus is a special treat in "extra-sexy". Harkens back to my first experience kissing a girl (MrS's ex-GF, SweetPea, that sexy little harlot!) - and how wonderful, and different (to kissing boys) it was. Soft, warm, vulnerable, sweet, intoxicating...and SOOOO...feminine - you can just melt into kisses like that!

Life is Good!

roman 02-06-2014 10:55 AM

Belgian beer
 
Hi JaneQSmythe,

I've just finished reading the "historical" part of your lifestory here on the polyamory forum and found it a very good read indeed. The replies of some other members that you should make it into a book is completely justified (Being Belgian myself, that one reply with the threat of buying all the Belgian beer if you wouldn't start writing is much fun: we have over a 100 breweries, which produce about 2400 different beers (http://www.belgabeers.com/en/61-how-...eers-are-there)).

Thank you for sharing and for the degree of honesty you've achieved through your life (with, inevitably, a nasty mistake to trigger it);) I find your account very usefull and probably will use the insights it gave me (not the actual events) to mold the character around for my book.

I look forward to read this blog as well!

JaneQSmythe 03-04-2014 01:55 AM

Thanks for the link roman - I have tried a good number of Belgian beers (a few hundred?) but still have a LOT to try it looks like.


*****

Random thought:

The boys will sometimes collude for their (and my:p) enjoyment. For instance, one will ask me to reach for something or pick up something that gets my bum within pinching distance of the other one:rolleyes:...

So Dude got me tonight and MrS gives me a sweet little pinch, and I'm thinking how nice it is that, after 21+ years together, he still gets a thrill out of patting my fanny...

...and then comes the stray thought that, if we were mono, then perhaps that would mean that my fanny is the ONLY one that he could legitimately pinch, BUT, because we are poly and he could be pinching other bums (assuming a consenting derriere :p) that fact that he still wants to pinch MINE...priceless!

JaneQSmythe 04-20-2014 10:45 PM

So, Dan Savage says he has never been invited to a 5-year poly anniversary (I think I read that somewhere on here)...

Today is Dude and I's "official" 3-year anniversary (from when MrS gave his "blessing" to us ... not including the "jackassery" time from my other blog)...so far, so good, and getting better :D. I now acknowledge that we have been together for "more that a minute" and we understand each other on a deeper and more meaningful level as time goes by. (NRE is long over and we still love each other as we "really" are.)

Not that I would invite Dan Savage to our anniversary anyway - but a 5 year one is not out of the question :rolleyes:.

JaneQ

PS. Our "official" anniversary date is actually an arbitrary day somewhere in the general vicinity of our anniversary that we decided upon last year (two years in) due to a random event that happened this day a year ago. None of us remember the "actual" date ... it was after my birthday, before CrazyGirl's birthday and a few days after MrS wrecked the car.

nycindie 04-21-2014 02:20 AM

Happy Anniversary, dahling!!!!

http://www.millan.net/minimations/sm...loveshower.gifhttp://www.millan.net/minimations/sm...tinismiley.gifhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy023.gifhttp://www.millan.net/minimations/sm...pydancsmil.gifhttp://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/fiesta.gif

GalaGirl 04-21-2014 02:35 PM

Happy anniv! :)

GG

JaneQSmythe 05-11-2014 02:40 PM

Found it!
 
Several times I've looked for a post I made about what "commitment in secondary relationships" - finally found it:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showp...&postcount=365

- was buried an "Online Dating/OKCupid" thread :
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...age#post187800

BlackMagicBlonde 05-13-2014 01:41 AM

Yeah, happy (belated) anniversary to you guys!!!! :D

JaneQSmythe 09-11-2014 01:16 AM

I posted this in another poster's thread: (directed to YouAreHere)

*********************************

To YAH (not really relevant to the rest of the thread so I'll keep it short):

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouAreHere (Post 276921)
I only know what I read about D/s relationships, because I've never been in one and really don't grok it, but...

Right with you here - I've been reading a bit here and talked about it with a few people in the lifestyle, but ... doesn't really mesh with me. However:

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouAreHere (Post 276921)
From some people's situations I've read, they enjoy being a sub because, after a hectic day of taking charge at work, or wherever, they get to put it aside and let someone else make the decisions. It's calming.

THIS, actually resonates with me...I make decisions all day long, that affect peoples' lives, it's exhausting. I DON'T want to make decisions when I get home from work - where to go, what to wear, what to watch, what to listen to, what to eat, etc. - the boys know my preferences, let THEM choose. If I don't like their choice I will let them know, or not participate.

(Sorry for the hijack...back to your regularly scheduled posting.)

********************************

This is actually an aspect of myself that I am interested in exploring further - with someone who enjoys making these sorts of decisions for someone else. (My boys do this as a favor for me - but they don't take any personal enjoyment from it other than liking to make me happy.) I've discussed this with Lotus and we are touching on aspects of this in our relationship - I love it when she dresses me, cuts my hair, takes me to get my nails done, puts make-up on me - all the "girly" things that I would never bother to do for myself but am happy to do for her.

If anyone has any comments or insight, I'd love to discuss them.

(Just for the record - for "real" decisions the responsibility falls on the person with the most expertise - with input from the others. I look after our long-term financial goals. Dude takes care of the cars. MrS makes the mid-level "household" decisions. etc.)

JaneQSmythe 09-11-2014 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackMagicBlonde (Post 267286)
Yeah, happy (belated) anniversary to you guys!!!! :D


Thank you! We actually just celebrated another anniversary on Sunday - the one year anniversary of Lotus entering our lives. A year ago, after meeting on OKC, Dude invited Lotus to attend a concert with us and a friend of ours. We went out to a nice restaurant and greatly enjoyed the concert. She has been seeing him (and us) ever since.

Dude, MrS, and I celebrated by taking her out to dinner at the same (excellent) restaurant. We had a lovely dinner. It's amazing how short a time it seemed and how MANY things happened over that time!

YouAreHere 09-11-2014 11:01 AM

The hijack is all good, JaneQ! :)

Usually, I have an opinion about everything, and I'm too damned independent to let others make decisions for me... which only serves to confuse them when I don't care about the outcome of a particular decision and then ask them to decide. They're like, "wait, what?" :p

JaneQSmythe 09-30-2014 02:05 AM

Dude just had his first full "alone" weekend with Lotus (as her husband was out of town)...he says he will be home in a few hours (we will see - the boy is notoriously bad with time-frames:p) At this point it doesn't even seem like a "hurdle" for me - there was no reason (i.e. no rules), other than scheduling, that it couldn't have happened earlier. I am just happy for them. (The flip side is that I get a weekend "alone" with MrS - which is very quiet, calm, relaxing...)

A few weeks ago they exchanged "I loves you"s - also a non-event on my side. She had been there for a while and was just waiting for Dude to catch up (which may have been delayed because of how difficult that is for ME to hear). She knows how hesitant I am around that phrase...as was content to love us (individually) without having to voice it until we were ready.

kdt26417 10-03-2014 07:54 PM

Congrats on your anniversaries, JaneQ. This recently-past August, my V celebrated the 5th anniversary of our "official" handfasting. So take that, Mr. Savage! :) We've been together as a V since March of 2006 too, so, lots of poly relationships really do last.

Heh, oh and as we know, maxnsue had a poly dynamic that lasted 38 years. Woohoo!

JaneQSmythe 02-22-2015 04:54 AM

Random update. I love my life!

Seriously. I couldn't have picked a better outcome than the one I ended up with. There was a rough patch or two that I could have done without...BUT considering where we ended up...it was SO worth it. (If only I could have known that at the time.:rolleyes:)

Lesson? Not sure. It seems like some people do the best they can and stuff turns out fine. Others, crap implodes and explodes. Is it "fair"? - I doubt it. Is it luck? (aka. random chance) Is it karma? (maybe, but the thought makes me angry - who is to JUDGE that shit?)

Without knowing each persons history and circumstances...how is a girl to know?

kdt26417 02-22-2015 04:17 PM

I consider myself extraordinarily lucky.

JaneQSmythe 03-28-2015 09:47 PM

Been reading and thinking about terminology today...primary, secondary, non-primary, etc.

At this point (4 years next month) I think that Dude has approached "co-primary" - yes, I am married to MrS, (and I have NO desire to undo that!) but my relationship with Dude is certainly as entwined as my relationship with MrS before we got married (which changed, essentially, nothing except taxes on a practical level.)

We live together, we share finances, we share chores/responsibilities...

Neither of us, at this point, requires any "official" recognition of our relationship BUT how much more "primary" can you be?

My "other" partners would be secondary or tertiary (or some other terminology)...I care about them, but they have other, more important , relationships.

JaneQSmythe 04-20-2015 11:01 PM

Anniversary #4 with Dude
 
Take that Dan Savage - 4/5th of the way there! Not too many posts here since since the last anniversary - likely because the sailing has been smooth:p

Dude just got home from a big shopping trip getting us yummies for dinner (seafood buffet). He bought MrS cupcakes from the good bakery and everything!

Not too much going on on the "new relationships" front. Things with Lotus seem to be holding steady. Dude has a friend that might be verging on "more than" but, either way, it's all good (we all know and like her)

MeeraReed 04-25-2015 02:28 AM

Please send Dan Savage an invitation to your fifth anniversary next year!

And congratulations, I love your story here :)

JaneQSmythe 05-05-2015 01:48 AM

Dude is at his "other" (i.e. not Lotus) GF's house. MrS is sleeping, and I am catching up here.

I wasn't going to mention it but I have been following (and sharing) Bluebird's story and Dude said something the other day that keeps pricking at me.

I had been kvetching about a post I read somewhere where someone "admitted" (or "boasted") that they were "high-maintenance". My initial response was, 'Well, if you know that about yourself, then ... change.'. Being "high-maintenance" is NOT a positive in my book... (Dude then volunteered that I was the "lowest-maintenance" girl he had ever met.)

Some days or weeks later I was talking about BB's handfasting plans. I was surprised by how excited I was for her - given that a.) I don't even know her IRL and b.) as much as I LOVED my wedding, the reasons behind it seem superfluous now (marriage was MY idea, that MrS went along with because I "needed" that affirmation at the time).

At some point in the conversation Dude said something along the lines of, "I would TOTALLY marry you." Aaaccckkk! Quick subject change ensued. #1.) I am already legally married, can't do that shit again (here, yet). #2.) I was SURE that he wasn't the "marrying" type. #3.) I'm past the point where I need "official" recognition of my relationships. #4.) (and the REAL question) Is he at the point where he desires public (or at least familial) recognition of our relationship?

I do recall a few instances where he felt his behaviour was constrained due to the fact that we are not "out" to our families. ("Will I ever be able to kiss you goodbye in front of them?") And recall that my friend (SLL in my blog) suggested that introducing him as "our roommate" downgraded his importance in my life and made him feel rejected.

Our (mine and MrS's - he is estranged from his own) families know that he lives with us and we consider him "family". That is enough for ME - even though we only live an hour or so from them we only see them a few times a year. They welcome him to "family" gatherings. My mother bakes him birthday cookies. We get Christmas cards addressed to all three of us. I am sure that they know/suspect more but are too polite to press it. My family know/have met Lotus as "Dude's girlfriend" - and I have let it slip (because I am terrible at secrets) that she also has a husband/roommate.

We are "in the closet" due to my profession. In general, I don't give a flying fuck what people think. I don't think that my or MrS's immediate family would have MAJOR issues (since I suspect they already know and are just being polite by not asking questions).

Yes, I should discuss this with Dude (and MrS). But, I don't want to. I am very, very happy with where things are.

(Fine, I am a selfish, bad, person - I accept that.)

Aaarrrggghhh.

kdt26417 05-05-2015 09:43 PM

Sounds like there's two issues here ...
  • coming out to more people,
  • having a handfasting/commitment ceremony.
What will you do?

JaneQSmythe 05-06-2015 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdt26417 (Post 295947)
What will you do?

Honestly, probably nothing - unless Dude feels strongly about it enough to ask for a REAL discussion, or family asks a direct question (unlikely). I'm more an "actions" than "words" kind of girl. (Despite my relative verbosity on these forums.)

We did just open a "family" checking account at a local bank with all three names on it. For me that is an act of trust and commitment. (I am very particular about our finances).

kdt26417 05-06-2015 12:36 AM

That works.

JaneQSmythe 05-17-2015 06:34 PM

OK. There is a new girl in the picture, JennyL. She knows all of us, she knows the situation, she is now involved with Dude. We all like her, she is sweet and lovely and compassionate.

BUT...she is mono (or at least a poly-virgin). So I experienced some "flip-side" feelings this weekend. I'm fine but maybe concerned?

So, usually Dude is the most PDA-prone of all of us. Generally I am the one that limits that based on place and people (as I am the one that has the "morality clause" sensitive job). So yesterday - he had been at her house for 24+ hours getting ready for an event, she has teenage+ kids that live with her, he was sleep-deprived....

MrS and I went over to her house as planned. I told him (Dude) that I had missed him (which is unusual for me), he admitted that he had been too busy to miss me (which is fine, but unusual for him - he generally whines that he misses me when I have been at work or he has been sleeping:rolleyes:).

At one point in the afternoon, we were in a public place that afforded the opportunity for some private interaction. I specifically requested some "attention" (i.e. kissing) from BOTH of them when we came to that place. They both seemed to agree but when we got there MrS was on board and Dude just kept walking. (Don't worry, I rewarded MrS for his "attention".:D)

I took that as a cue ...and, paid attention?, for the rest of the day. Any time that would, usually, have been an opportunity for Dude to, discretely, molest me...nope. Chaste kisses only. etc.

So. Until I have the opportunity to talk to him (he is still at JennyL's) - I will assume: a.) he was exhausted, b-1.) he and JennyL have NOT had the opportunity to discuss how their/our relationship is conducted in front of her not-small kids OR b-2.) they HAVE had that conversation and he has not had the opportunity to relay it to me.

I am assiduously trying to avoid thinking about c.) he has found a single mono girl and doesn't need me anymore - "So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish (sex)" - Douglass Adams reference. (Which, to be honest, is the outcome that I expected from the very beginning.)

kdt26417 05-17-2015 07:54 PM

That kind of sucks. :(

JaneQSmythe 05-17-2015 08:43 PM

Damn. Shit. Fuck.
 
OK. Immediately after that last post I broke down and txt'd him: "FYI. I'm having feelings and would like reassurance at some point."

No reply. Of COURSE there is no reply - Dude manages to check his phone about once every 2 days. It means NOTHING. So? My stupid GAD self has now managed to work myself into a giant anxiety attack out of proportion to ANYTHING that has been done or said (or NOT done, NOT said).

MrS is sleeping. I will NOT wake him up to hold me and help me deal with my STUPID anxiety. That would NOT be fair to him. (And he will tell me later that I should have, that is part of his job, because he loves me, etc - but I am too obnoxiously stubborn to do it.) I know what would happen - he would blow up Dude's phone and tell him he needs to come home NOW and hold me. It would work - we've been through this once before (in 4 years).

Damn. Shit. Fuck. I HATE having anxiety. I HATE HATE HATE it! I know that even if "C" is the reality that I will be fine. My MrS loves me no matter what. I am a strong woman and NOT defined by the men who love me. I AM. (but not now).:(

I COULD txt Dude again - it has been 2 hours. "See above." But, I won't. Maybe. Unless I do. I HATE THIS. I don't want to be this "needy", I abhor this aspect of myself...and I know that if I txt again and he doesn't respond then I will throw myself into an even greater spiral of anxiety. For no FUCKING reason.

I'm sorry you had to see this. I'm sorry I am feeling this. I am glad I have a place to vent, in the moment, it DOES help...

JaneQSmythe 05-17-2015 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdt26417 (Post 296813)
That kind of sucks. :(

Thanks Kevin. It does suck. At least in my own private hell of my mind. I DID send the "see above" txt. - which he will see, I am guessing, sometime tomorrow - when I am at work again. (Even though he said he would be home today...he is notorious for being unable to keep to any kind of a schedule - I thought I had resigned myself to that...but maybe not...)

UPDATE: he saw the texts and called. Said he loved me and we would talk in person. Tomorrow - when he comes home (after I get home from work? Assuming he makes it home?) MrS is up and will give me his own hugs and reassurances. I'll make it. Did I mention I HATE having these feelings?


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