What's reasonable for me to expect?

vanquish

New member
I was about to reply in the "What should I expect my partner to share about me to others" thread, but didn't want to hijack the thread.

Let me start by saying that I understand that telling someone you have a primary they will be secondary to is a severe party pooper. My girl goes on dates with other guys and pretty much keeps it casual (with sex and no real strings) with them, but has always said she's truly polyamorous, in that she could very well develop love feelings for someone else besides me, though that would never mean I would be replaced. She tells me she loves me and that she's attracted to me and that I'm very, very, very special to her. I don't expect her to say anything to new guys at first except that she dates around and isn't exclusive.

So...

She's started texting a guy who lives out of town. After getting her interested in him, he revealed that he's got a primary, but they have a poly relationship and have been looking for another female. Not just sexually but semi-relationship-wise too. She told him the same thing she's told me...that she's not a relationship person, though she could be convinced to have sex with the female of the relationship alone, despite the girl not being her type. (As in no threesomes. She has a no threesomes rule. Of course, even though she's strict about that, part of me says that there is always a possibility once things got going it would be a slippery slope.)

Getting back to the subject of this thread, so far, all she's said is that she's poly in general and hasn't spoken of me in specific. Mind you, they've been texting for at least 2 weeks and maybe even a month. Again, casual flirty, sexy stuff. Meanwhile she calls me Papa and I call her Babygirl. She technically lives at home with her parents, but she sleeps over at my house for 2 or 3 weeks at at time and has for 3 or 4 months. I buy her groceries, buy her pretty clothes, pay for our dates and we've gotten 4 pets together. (I'm not trying to buy her love. And she'd always tell me I don't have to buy her anything ever. That's my choice.)

She knows I know the guy's name. (We kind of "bro out" about her texts sometimes. She told me at first she wasn't interested but then he told her he has a Prince Albert and that his cock is 6 inches in circumference (mine's no slouch but that is, if true, I'd be kind of curious to try it too.)...so she got curious and the texting got more intense.)

I'm thinking of asking "So what's this guy all about?" and transitioning into "What have you told him about your dating situation? Have you told him just that you're poly or that you have a steady companion?"


Is that asking too much? I feel like he has explained his situation in detail, but she hasn't done the same. I'm pretty sure she's only just told him that she's poly...and not that she has someone serious and regular like me.

I know that might be just so he doesn't lose interest, but I feel like the depth of our companionship deserves some discussion with the dude.

As the guy and his woman live 3 hours away and she couldn't bear to move away from her family, I don't really see this becoming more than the guy and maybe later the girl coming up for "dates", but you never know.

What's reasonable for me to expect?
 
Any help or thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
Why not just tell her that you're uncomfortable with her not being specific about her existing commitments and ask her why she prefers to operate in that way?

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I'm thinking of asking "So what's this guy all about?" and transitioning into "What have you told him about your dating situation? Have you told him just that you're poly or that you have a steady companion?"

You want to know and get a need met. You could ASK for her willingness.

You could state your preference that people be told you exist up front. You can state your need to be known by all players in an honest polyship and ask if she's willing to meet the need. HOW you tell her this is up to you. Maybe something like...

"I need to be known by all participants in an honest polyship -- that I am here in this network if they choose to participate in it. I would like to know if you could be willing to tell your potentials about your full dating picture -- much like Dude has done for you. He's told you about his network so you can know before you choose to participate in it.

You have been up front with him about not wanting threesomes, so I see that you can be up front about some things. When I see you not being up front about our relationship to your other dating partners yet, I start to think you might skip it. That makes me uncomfortable.

Could you be willing to tell Dude about me being in your network you so Dude can be fully informed before agreeing to date you and I can have my need to be known by all participants met before I gain a new metamour in my network?

Could you be willing to tell me when you would be doing this so I can be free of worrisome thoughts? "​

She's either willing to meet your needs or not.

If she's in the habit of not being willing to meet your needs? You could re-assess if you still find the return on your investment in this relationship worthwhile to you or not. If you enjoy a one-sided dynamic or not. If you get off on that dynamic, great! If not, stop participating in it. It really is that simple.

Let me start by saying that I understand that telling someone you have a primary they will be secondary to is a severe party pooper.

If that is the model you guys practice at this time, it is fair and reasonable to tell potential dating partners this is the model you practice at this time. And ask if they are willing to date and participate in that model. Then they can choose to participate or not from a place of fully informed.


"I like you and would like us to date. I need to make you aware that I have another partner. We practice the "primary-secondary" open model relationship style. I am not seeking a primary, but I am seeking a secondary. Is this something you could be willing to participate in if we agree to date each other?"​

is respectful enough.

You are not TELLING them they HAVE to be secondary. You are ASKING them to consider their willingness to participate in such a model. Maybe they like that model at this time, maybe they don't. If they are willing, great! If they are not willing, fair enough. THEY are in charge of their own "willing and able" and what they choose to participate in. Thank them for their consideration and part ways.

That it does not line up could be disappointing for all parties, but it doesn't have to be "a severe party pooper" to anyone. You could expect self and others to be able to handle small life disappointments appropriately without having a cow.

It's a bummer, but not every dating partner is destined to be compatible or a long haul runner! That's what the dating process is for. To find compatible people whose company you enjoy that want the same/similar things as you.

The sooner y'all sort that out, the sooner it can move on to

  • celebrate that it lines up here and allow the relationship to unfold further.
  • part ways amicably because it isn't a runner here, and return to dating search rather than invest more time in a thing that won't fly

You could expect yourself to be up front about what you seek in your dating life and what model you currently practice.

You could ASK if you can expect your partner to be up front about what she seeks in her dating life and what model she currently practices.

You could expect Potentials to determine what models they want to participate in or not for themselves from a place of full information.

If it isn't a runner, you could expect everyone to handle small disappointments in Life without having a cow. This is grown ups dating grown ups.

Galagirl
 
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I would wonder why I was some dirty secret.

Do I share every dirty detail of my relationships with other partners no BUT I am honest about who they are to me. Murf knew I had a husband from the moment he asked me to perhaps start a relationship .

Yeah she may pay you lip service that you do not need to buy her xy and z. But cut back on the shopping, going out, and have her go home more often and see what happens. If she means what she says then she will be there no matter what. Honestly I think you are her sugar daddy. Nothing wrong with that mind you if you enjoy that dynamic.
 
update:

we had a discussion about her explaining our situation with the text guy. At first she asked why that might be necessary, but when I explained that if our relationship had value then it didn't need to be hidden...and that it would be best for all involved to know what was going on on all levels, she got it immediately and said that she absolutely would. She may have even said that she had been planning to anyway.

Honestly, their texting ebbs and flows. He's from out of town and while they've said they might meet in about a month, he's starting to sound kind of cheesy. Who knows.

The next question becomes, "When do I ask if she has followed through with telling him about us?" Sometime before they meet? At their first meeting? Sometime very soon?

Thoughts?
 
I say, checking up on her would be rather icky and paternalistic. You are trying too hard to manage her other relationships, which are not yours to manage. You can state your preferences, but it is totally up to her how and when she tells anyone else about you. Just worry about your relationship with her and stop worrying about how she manages the dynamics she has between her and anyone else. You're coming off like you are trying to steer or exert some control over this aspect of her life and, beyond any safer sex practices, how she conducts her other relationships is really none of your business.
 
when I explained that if our relationship had value then it didn't need to be hidden...and that it would be best for all involved to know what was going on on all levels, she got it immediately and said that she absolutely would. She may have even said that she had been planning to anyway.

I'm surprised you didn't tell her your preference when you asked the above. Like "Ok, cool. Could you be willing to let me know when you do that?" or "Alright. When do you expect to do that? Could you let me know when you do?" And then just let her own it and let it go. Wait to see if she delivers within the expected time frame or not.

Since you didn't, could do a follow up " Hey, I forgot... could you be willing to let me know when you do that?" and then let her own it and let it go.

But get to where you let it go and let her own her side of it. Stop with the back and forth thing.

I get that you guys have a Daddy/babygirl d/s thing going. I get that she's 20 to your 42. But she's not actually a child. Or if she IS behaving like a mess about her dating life, and it isn't fun for you to deal with because her behavior puts your mental or emotional health at risks -- maybe you could think about not dealing with that any more? Either the d/s dynamic or the relationship in general?

Like I said before -- she either meets your needs or not. If you state your needs and she doesn't meet your needs? Esp for peace of mind while dating her? Could consider not dating her so you can enjoy better peace of mind.

Galagirl
 
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My feeling is that when X won't tell others what their real relationship is with Y, that tells Y a great deal about their relationship (X and Y's). Who would want to be 'in a relationship with' a person who wants to hide who they really are?
 
I say, checking up on her would be rather icky and paternalistic. You are trying too hard to manage her other relationships, which are not yours to manage. You can state your preferences, but it is totally up to her how and when she tells anyone else about you. Just worry about your relationship with her and stop worrying about how she manages the dynamics she has between her and anyone else. You're coming off like you are trying to steer or exert some control over this aspect of her life and, beyond any safer sex practices, how she conducts her other relationships is really none of your business.
Word
 
I dont want to manage her other relationships. Perhaps I am grasping at that a bit. But her conversation about being the unicorn with a new guy and his gf yielded some responses I wasnt ready for. They were discussing all these possibilities withouther even mentioning that I was her SO. In retrospect, it was mostly the guy soliciting possibilities and not her accepting.

I do feel like the relationship deserves some sort of recognition, just not as a method of cockblocking the other partner. For me personally, if my relationship isnt worth recognition, its not a relationship. We can keep our metamours separated, but if im not worth acknowledging, then what's the point?
 
For me personally, if my relationship isnt worth recognition, its not a relationship. We can keep our metamours separated, but if im not worth acknowledging, then what's the point?

I absolutely agree.

In addition, the other person certainly has a right to know what they're getting into. The very fact that she isn't telling them makes me question whether she herself thinks the other person is getting involved with someone (her) who already has a primary relationship.
 
If you feel that your partner doesn't give your relationship the public acknowledgement it deserves, dump her. Just don't try and control how she acknowledges your relationship, let her do what she thinks is best then you decide how her action makes you feel and respond accordingly.
 
"Dumping her" seems a bit, no offense, flippant. She's said she will tell him at some point. I should have come to a mutually beneficial agreement about when.

Ill just have to give it some time and find the right time. I know theyve set up a tentative date in about a month. I'll probably ask if she has said anything when the time comes.

I really dont see the situation becoming much of anything since hes way out of townand she has no car. Famous last words, though, right?
 
I dont want to manage her other relationships.
If you are monitoring how and what she says and are upset if she doesn't say certain things in a conversation that you are not part of, yeah, that's trying to control her and manage her other relationships. Would be different if you were there with her and them, and participating in those conversations - then you could say whatever the hell you want. But she has the individual right to say or not say anything, and it's not up to you to manage how she says the things you want her to, nor even if she says those things. It is her freedom of expression.

You can be happy or not happy with how she conducts her other relationships and conversations, and you have a choice to stay or go, but you don't have the right to steer her conversations with other people.

But her conversation about being the unicorn with a new guy and his gf yielded some responses I wasnt ready for. They were discussing all these possibilities without her even mentioning that I was her SO.
But - so what? What does that have to do with you? Why is it so important that your "title" of SO must be broadcast to whomever she speaks with? Why can't she just say, "I see other people" or "I'm involved with someone else" or something else, or not say anything, according to what feels right to her and the dynamic that she is dealing with at the time? Those are her relationships, not yours!

I do feel like the relationship deserves some sort of recognition, just not as a method of cockblocking the other partner. For me personally, if my relationship isnt worth recognition, its not a relationship. We can keep our metamours separated, but if im not worth acknowledging, then what's the point?
What's the point of what? You only want a relationship if you get a title to go with it? (Your sun sign isn't Leo, is it? LOL) And what would constitute "recognition?" Maybe it is something different for her than it is for you. Perhaps she feels she recognizes her relationship with you by her actions or feelings and that is enough. Maybe she doesn't feel it's necessary to walk around with a blinking neon sign proclaiming you as her partner. I just think you have to get over this idea that how she relates to other people should pass muster with you first. As I said before, worry about how YOU relate to her, and that's it.
 
Wisdom there for sure. I'm still trying to grasp my place in this poly world.

I suppose I have a trust issue. Its about being replaced. Despite the fact that we spend almost every waking hour together...despite that im a part of her family...despite that she tells me ill never be replaced and that love is not a competition, I suppose I see plans being made...even potential plans...and I dont want to be left out of them. If theres a discussion about setting up some new triangle, why am I not being worked into the mix?

In our relationship, I work to do things that add value to that relationship. If that can be negated at a moment's notice...was it all just for the moment? Yes, I do feel recognition has been earned by virtue of the effort ive put into the relationship. Im willing to be flexible about the how and the when and the where. What you call steering is me making sure that I voice what I need and we can find middle ground about it. Trust me, she asks for what she wants all the time.

I get that a my partner should be in control of her own relationships. I get that I shouldnt interfere. But to me, hiding a relationship is devaluing it. She CAN say "im involved with someone else significantly who knows im poly." Thats all I need her to say.
 
She CAN say "im involved with someone else significantly who knows im poly." Thats all I need her to say.
Im willing to be flexible about the how and the when and the where.

Could finish making your agreements with her and then leave her to it. See if she delivers or not.

Here's the basic needs you seem to be having:

  • to know and be known
  • to see and be seen
  • to understand and be understood

It's perfectly ok to have.

If theres a discussion about setting up some new triangle, why am I not being worked into the mix?

If she's changing her poly tangles and you are a part of that network, it affects you to X degree, but does affect you. If she's not communicating to you/the potentials in the way so you can feel safe, you can draw her attention to it. You have done that.

The only part missing is the agreement on when you expect to next check in so she can update you this was done. However and whenever she did it, but done by the time you check in again on this. Could sort that part out and come to agreement on when you will check in together.

Then give her the agreed time to DO IT, back off and wait. She will either meet your need or not.

She doesn't have to meet every single need yours, but if she is in the habit of not meeting your needs to the point where you question "what is the point?" of being in the relationship?

Your choices then are

  • To continue as you are, and see what new data the passage of time brings next
  • to stop the daddy/babygirl d/s dynamic part of the relationship because she won't participate in that in the way you wish. See if that change improves things.
  • To stop the entire relationship. See if that change improves things.
  • something else I cannot think of right now

There is also the option of her changing HER behavior, but you do not actually control that. So while you may ask and certainly hope for that, best to focus on what YOU can control in your own behavior.

It's not a fun option, but breaking up IS one possible option you could do on a list of several options.

You choose what you want to do next. Only you know where your limit of tolerance is at this time.

Galagirl
 
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Very logically thoughtout. Thank you.

Im just going toback off and wait it out until they meet and then rediscuss.

She's making efforts to make me comfortable so thats meaningful to me. Youre right though,there is always a cost/benefit analysis of "am I getting enough of what I reasonably need?"and im in the green zone so far.
 
. . . I work to do things that add value to that relationship. If that can be negated at a moment's notice...was it all just for the moment?

I think this is an issue of perspective. From your perspective, you feel that her not explaining to people that she is in a relationship with you, and that it is a significant relationship, negates everything you put into it. She may feel that not talking about her relationship with you preserves its specialness, or even that it's nobody else's business who she is in a relationship with - I don't know, of course. I'm just offering different possible viewpoints. However, if you think your whole relationship can be negated by her not verbalizing to other people that she is with you, your sense of trust and faith in what you have may be on quite unstable ground.

Personally, I've experienced some of what you're feeling- wanting my relationship with someone to be acknowledged to the "outside world." I would ask, "Did you tell your friends/family/coworkers about me?" and feel sad and disappointed when the answer was "no." But I spent some time examining that, and realized that I wanted the outward recognition because I was insecure and couldn't really believe that this person wanted to be with me. If he told someone, anyone, then maybe that was proof! Maybe this is real if somebody out there knows about it.

Basically, it came down to an old self-limiting belief I have that I am actually unlovable, or that no one cares about me, which makes me want to look for evidence for or against that belief. Maybe someone does care and could love me - or maybe it's true that no one does. And I would attach great importance to things like that - acknowledgement, recognition. I would feel a thrill at being referred to as someone's "girlfriend" because it made my relationship more real and I could maybe feel safe enough to invest more of myself in it. But the best thing I could do was acknowledge all this stuff, and that this insecurity dwelt in me, and then simply live with the discomfort of not getting that kind of recognition or acknowledgement. I had to dig deeper and trust the person and our relationship itself, rather than any outward declarations. I think this is good, important inner work to do.
 
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Wow. That's really insightful too, nycindie. Proving the love exists is just like proving your love to someone ...which absolutley means im insecure and unstable.

I know im attractive and have a lot to offer someone. Trust me, out in the world and out with friends Im the life of the party and very self-assured. Hell, for the last two years of my marriage, I was fine with having my alone time.

But for some reason, post-divorce, im not so hot with being alone. And my companion especially brings out my romantic and clingy side. (For the record, im the one who left.) Shes so unique and wonderful that I want to be around her as much as possible.

Im trying to learn how to balance needing someone with not being needy. I also dont want to get sideswiped by being replaced.
 
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