Please Help

TornInTwo

New member
So here's the situation. I love my wife. She's my best friend, we do as much as we can together as our schedules permit (which doesn't cause a lot of conflict). We cook together, clean house together, play together, take trips together, we celebrate our love twice a month with date night, make a big to-do about our anniversaries, you name it. We also share a tight group of friends, one of whom is our mutual best friend, call her F. I know, original, huh?

Backing up a little, just to better set the stage. My wife was cheated on in her first marriage. Her second marriage failed after she and he drifted apart mentally and emotionally. I had been friends with her and husband #2 for some years when I witnessed their disintegration and simultaneously discovered I have feelings for her. At the same time, she was also setting her sights on another mutual friend who had drifted apart from his wife, which I had no clue about when I told her about my feelings for her. For about a month, she went back and forth between myself and our other friend, trying to convince us both to share because she couldn't make a decision. I was doing well learning to share her when he, in a jealous rage, physically attacked my wife. That was the end of any contact with him. Also, I'm a good deal her junior and she's always afraid in the back of her mind that I'll stop finding her attractive and leave her for someone my age.

Back to today... F is married to a nice enough man who, due to medical complications, is unable to function sexually. He's let himself go pretty badly, he's become a complete homebody, and has all but alienated F. F has tried numerous times to get her husband to notice her, to take some sort of interest in her, and for a while, she gave up and started to look for a lover on the side.

Several months before F's decision, I came to the realization that I have very strong feelings for her. She's fun, witty and charming, she looks out for my wife and I, and she's a very open and honest person. Very much like my wife.

So, for about a year, I agonized over my feelings for F. I figured if I ignored them, or at least refused to act upon them, they'd go away. No such luck, obviously. So when the internal conflict threatened to drive me bonkers, I sat down and talked about my feelings with my wife. It wasn't pretty. She cried, she was angry, she felt betrayed, and I couldn't blame her. We promised to be each other's one and only, and I broke that promise. I told her I would try my hardest and even offered to seek counseling to align myself with her ideal.

After about two months of refusing to acknowledge my feelings again, I realized it was only making me focus on the feelings and intensifying the desire I feel for F, so I gave in and promised myself I would only indulge them as a fantasy. Which worked until F started being flirty with me. We'd flirt back and forth, nothing terribly serious, but did so out in the open. My wife either didn't notice, or wasn't bothered. This arrangement was working quite well, I thought, up until almost the anniversary of the disastrous first discussion. We three had gone on a trip together, and after some drinking, F told me that she finds me adorable, but that she wouldn't want to hurt either my wife or her husband (in that order). About a week later I had sent a flirty email to F, in which I told her I thought she was adorable, too. My little suggestion to her that what I percieved to be her feelings are mutual. She shared the email with my wife, and my wife confronted me. She was hurt that I still felt the same way and told me she couldn't handle going through this a third time. She said I would lose her if I couldn't get this under control. Later she told me she said a lot in anger that she didn't mean, but I am so afraid of losing her that I won't even ask her to clarify which points.

So, here it is over a year later. My feelings for my wife and for F are as strong as ever. I have stopped being nearly so flirty with F, and she with me. Now I have a great, big hole in my heart. Part of that hole is the layer of intimacy F and I have lost, and part is knowing there's a range of topics, flavored by my love for F, that I dare not discuss with my wife for fear of losing her. I feel terrible about not being completely open with her, but I know I have little choice. At least I haven't outright lied about anything. I've lost my sense of direction, though, and I don't know of anybody I can turn to for advice. Can somebody please help me? Is there a way for me to cope with my situation and not lose my darling wife?

Thank you!
me
 
In some cases, those feelings just wont go away. No matter how long you try to deny them or how much you want them to. Believe me. They tortured me for three years and guess where I ended up.

It is a bit of a sticky situation, but the way I see it you have two options. Keep going along trying to ignore your love for F, which doesn't seem to be working out too well for you, or talk to your wife about it again. Make sure she understands just how much you love and adore her, and that your loving F doesn't take away from that at all. Approach the subject calmly and hopefully she'll listen and take it in and consider it.

Does F want to have a relationship with you? Or is she just flirting? This would be something to defenately make sure of before speaking with your wife if you're that worried about it.

Unfortunately you seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think either you'll need to risk the conversation with your wife or keep being miserable denying your feelings.

I wish you well and hope it works out for you.
 
Hi AussieLover, and thanks for your response!

...the way I see it you have two options. Keep going along trying to ignore your love for F, which doesn't seem to be working out too well for you, or talk to your wife about it again. Make sure she understands just how much you love and adore her, and that your loving F doesn't take away from that at all. Approach the subject calmly and hopefully she'll listen and take it in and consider it.

I suspected it would come down to that. I wish I were more assured that my wife wouldn't freak out once more. Perhaps the right opportunity will come along for that discussion. I know I certainly didn't put my wife in the right frame of mind in either of our discussions.

As for whether F wants a relationship, I just can't say. The flirting, calling me a golden god in front of all our friends, the comment she made about finding me adorable, and comments about her daughter calling herself, my wife and myself a triad all lead me to believe there is a good possibility she would. I had been planning to ask her if she would want to pursue a relationship, provided my wife and her husband could be convinced, when she shared the fateful email with my wife and knocked things off course. I can't tell whether it was an innocent mistake, an attempt to keep things above the board, or just plain telling on me. If the latter, then I suspect any attempt to broach the subject with F would result in being told on again.

The way I see it at the moment, if those are my only two options, suffering through a longing I can't fulfill is preferable to losing both of the ladies I so adore.

Thank you for your well-wishes and advice. I'm sorry to hear you suffered much the same as I do now. I hope you've found your peace. :)

me
 
think about how you will feel if you don't do anything about this and you spend the rest of your life longing for more,
will you regret it?

Jools
 
Wow-do I know how you feel.
Maca's ex cheated, they divorced.
I watched it fall apart.
We got together.
We married.
A lot of b.s. happened, I fell in love and I cheated.
He found out.
I promised not to let it happen.
I tried to block feelings.
I tried to stay away from C.
I tried to be what Maca wanted.
Suffice it to say I tried a lot of things and I failed at ALL of them.
5 weeks ago yesterday I just finally decided that even if it destroyed me (which I deemed HIGHLY probable-like 97%) I had to just be honest to me and to Maca.
I wrote him a letter (chicken shit I know) and let him know that yes I am still in love with c and that from here on out I wasn't pretending to be what I'm not-because it is killing me and that is hurting us all.
I told him I was from there on out acknowledging not only he as my husband but C as my boyfriend because I'd rather be hated for being honest and true then for being a liar and a cheat...

Anyway-I fully expected him to walk. He didn't.
BUT I was prepared when I wrote it to have 1/2 of my life and heart and my whole world destroyed, because I honest to God believed he would.

I don't have advice-beyond, if you aren't true to yourself-it will disinegrate your marriage even if you do it for her.
 
Bless your heart. :( I'm truly sorry for the predicament you're in, BrotherMan.

It seems to me that you absolutely NEED to find someone to talk this situation out with, whether that's your wife a/o F, a marriage or individual counselor, or someone else altogether. But many times troubles grow out of control in the dark and quiet, and die out when given plenty of light and air.

On a side note: it seems to me that your wife opened up the possibility of polyamory in your relationship years ago when she was dating you and the other friend and asked y'all to share her. Having worked then to open your heart to that possibility for her sake, is it all that remarkable that your heart opened itself again? I don't think it is. This may be something you wish to discuss with her/them when the time is right.

I wish for all of you much love, joy and peace. Be strong, BrotherMan.
 
OK...

Here is my take.

Mind you this is just my opinion( having been on the recieving end of lies and cheating) and IMO there is physical lies and cheating and emotional lies and cheating.

Your looking at this as a well I can be miserable and keep my mouth shut, or I can risk it all and talk to her/them and possibly lose one or the other or both.

I suggest that you take a look it from outside the box.

Is your wife happy with the level of her relationship? Is F? Are you?
Does honesty rank high enough on the list of qualities that you want in your life or the life of the loved ones around you, to endure the pain and commitment to working through it?

How long will this last before you inadvertantly do something( because its who you are) that hurts the others? (IE: the email thingy)

I know your scared to open this conversation up again. ( read back up to LR's post). I was the one that freaked out and went ape shit .I was the one that felt like I was the only one gettign fucked over.. The gods honest truth is once she was direct, honest, and still loving of me we soared to heights I never thought possible. LR stated she was ready to accept that I would walk. To be honest that still may happen but what wont happen is that I will never ever ever stop loving her cause of her honesty with herself and with me..


Good luck my friend, The good things in life are never easy:(


Peace and Love
 
Thank you everybody for your support, input and advice. I appreciate it so much, and it helps to know I'm not alone. Yea, I'm scared shitless and nowhere near ready to take another step with either my wife or F. But knowing I'm not alone has lifted me up enough to at least start rationalizing my situation.

Jools, yep, I'll regret not going further. I hope against hope that she doesn't leave.

Fidelia, absolutely I need to find myself someone to talk to. And I thought the same thing you did about the other friend way back when. Don't know how she'll take it, though.;)

Radiance and Maca, your story is very inspiring to me, and I hope that I can be as strong as you two are. Maca, I know you're right that someday I'll end up slipping again. I hope I have my head together by then.

And thank you all for not judging me the monster I have been feeling like. I'll be around here and there, but I still need to maintain a kind of low profile until I can sort through all my feelings, and indeed, try to reason out what my two loves are feeling.

Brightest blessings to you all and my many thanks,
me
 
You're welcome.
And yes, I finally have found my peace.

You're defenately not a monster. Your feelings are what they are. I hope if you decide to speak to your wife she will listen and not freak out. It only has to be a discussion. Not something you're defenately going to do. A possibility. But honestly I would find out first if F would be willing to have a relationship, because otherwise the discussion with your wife may be pointless. If you speak to F about it, and she declines, at least you'll know and can maybe try to get past it. If she agrees, then you can try to speak with your wife.
Just my thoughts.

It's not necessary that you lose both of them. *HUGS* good luck
 
Okay
-RED FLAG!

I haven't heard anything about F's husband. Where's he at? It doesn't sound like he knows what his wife has been doing. I don't care how much he has neglected himself and how little attention she gets, is she cheating! If so, you have way more work to do!

This isn't just about you and the wife my friend. This is about all four of you.
Sorry, but I think you have to check your NRE at the door, take a breath and figure out realistically and rationally what you can achieve.

Your wife's comfort should be number one, next is F's husband comfort and knowing what is going on, if indeed F has even let her husband know. Next is getting together with F to decide to start something, then is to get together with her husband all three of you and your wife all three of you.

You got some work to do to go about this properly. Good luck! If you succeed then there will be a lot of challenges, but it can be sweet.
 
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You're right Red Pepper. My bad. I forgot about F's husband as well.
I agree the primary relationships are the first priority. I do think he needs to know if there's even a possibility of a relationship though. If not, he can continue working on the relationship with his wife and try to get past his feelings for F.

I for one would not be able to continue on the way he is currently. Could be because of my own similar experience of longing for so long.
 
Thank you all for showing such love and support! I feel like I may have found some new friends here.:D

In my defense and F's, I don't know that she's discussed anything with her husband or not, but her actual search for another lover wound up more of a mental exercise, which is part of why I'm so confused in regard to her intentions toward me. She had a straight-up offer from another couple in our group to have sex with them and turned it down. As for me, I was watching for signs of true seriousness in her search and had already planned to tell her my feeling that she owed her husband, no matter what direction she decided to take this nor with whom, at the very least to be informed of her decision and reasoning. Also, remember that her statement to me was not only about hurting my wife, but her husband as well. For what it's worth.

Talk to you all again sometime soon,
Torn
 
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I think I've decided my course of action. I agree with AussieLover that I really need to find out what F is thinking and how she's feeling. I know I'm not going to get an honest answer out of her if I come up to her cold and just flat-out ask, so I've started flirting with her again. When and if I can get her back into flirting with me (which, if she won't, I know is pretty indicative), then I'll try to find a moment when I can talk to her alone and ask. This is going to be the difficult part, since I so rarely see her without my wife. From there, it depends on her answers, of course. If nay, I suffer in silence, hoping the desire will subside; if yea, then we discuss the ramifications on our spouses, and go from there.

Halloween went very well, though, as our group all get together to party and everyone dresses up. F was Bellatrix from Harry Potter, and kept driving me wild doing the Death-Eater thing and licking her 'tattoo'. When picture-taking time came around, she wrapped herself pretty close to me and I thought I was gonna lose my mind on the spot.

My wife encourages me to tell F that I think she's pretty because F's overweight and sensitive about it. I told F she looked beautiful that night. She always emails a thank-you note after we all get together, and she said how she loved our costumes, that my wife and I both are good for her ego. I reiterated that I thought she was gorgeous, and good for our egos as well. She thanked me for all the compliments.

Everyone will be out again Sunday, so I hope all goes well. Thank you, everyone, for giving me the peace of knowing I should seek the truth and the encouragement I needed to do it. I'll keep you posted!

Thanks,
Torn
 
hi tom

take things slowly as i jumped in my situation and it ended up in a mess
i let my feelings get the better and fell for my f friend its all ended and nearly cost my marriage and a year of depression with several trips to a counselor


let f and your wife be the one's to choose you
rather plant the seed and let them make it grow?

hope it all works what ever the outcome as long as it don't go crappy and you all loose out


jon
 
please help me
it wont let me start a new topic cos i ve only just signed up
i got my tongue pierced yesterday and it didnt bleed and was fine
but then tonight it started bleeding so after i applied some ice it was stopped but started up again a couple of hours later when i brushed my teeth and this time it wont stop and a clot has started to form.
is this a problem that can be solved int he mornin in 7 hours or is it something i shud be gettin really worried about? please reply asap
thanks
 
i think your in the wrong thread but if it dont stop bleeding then go seek medical advise the clot will help stop the bleeding so try let it from
also try not agitate it to much

not sure as i don't have any mouth piercings
but when i done my own Dydoe Piercing i just used a smear of Vaseline
but not sure what the pro's recommend for the mouth?
 
Fedelia has a point. She must understand the concept of sharing. This is only my way, but here's what I'd do. I'd set up a time in a place your wife feels safe, and I'd set a table for three. Invite both wife and f, and though I'd keep the environment relaxed, I'd make sure the food was great. A real treat!
Then, I'd find some pictures or objects that are very special to you and your waif jointly, and some pix or objects that connect wife and F. Keep them near table but out of sight.
When I have both of them at the table, sitting beside each other with me(you) on the other side, and they are breathing in the fumes of awesome food they'd never want to run away from, I'd explain that I had something to talk about that was causeing me extreme pain.
Id first pull out the things that remind wife of me. Id touch on how much she IS and will ALWAYS beMy(your) love. Then pull out the stuff connecting her to F. Explain that you see and understand why your wife loves her so much. Leave these idems in front of them. Tell them that if they ever feel like doughting how much love is at the table for them, to just look at the objects. (I am right now just starting a poly situation with my love, and sometimes its hard, but I've known the woman he loves since she was 8. She is my companion. I love her in all but a physical way, though thats not bad either when my loves between us, she is amazing! I have always wanted her in my life anyway. It helps me to know that I can trust her implisantly. She would NEVER hurt me. If F truely is one of her best friends, then your wife can rest in the thought that F will always have her back, just like with the email.
Then tell them both how you feel. Tell them how much it hurts you to hide, but that it hurts to see them in pain also. Tell them everything, then LISTEN. Let them talk, to you, to each other. Use the food to keep them there. KEEP EATING. Have awesome desert. Show them how hard you'd work for their happiness (it's very hard to love two woman, my love has to dish out so much love and patience it's kind crazy).

I also think you should express to them that you'd be ready and able to do anything to at least talk things out and put things on the table for all to see. Tell them that they can say anything they want, and it won't anger you. Let them get emotional, angry, sad,whatever. You'll always be there!

Lastly, try to always say what you want, not what you don't want. Just sayin the words break up, unloved, fall out of love, etc. Even though you don't want these things, when a woman is upset, she will pick these out like buz words. Your just sayin them puts bad pix and possabilities in their heads.

whew! Sorry that was so long, but lead up and atmo are very important when deep feelings are "put on the table".
Much love to you, and if you take my advise or not, keep on loving. Be true, and humble.
_Rosyrump
 
whew! Sorry that was so long, but lead up and atmo are very important when deep feelings are "put on the table".
Much love to you, and if you take my advise or not, keep on loving. Be true, and humble.
_Rosyrump

hi Rosyrump

wish i did that but ...lol
but he must first find out if there both "mono "then it's never going to work also there is 4 people involved in this ?

so its going to have it's complications

not sure if the wonderful meal thing will truly work as revealing news would tend not to make me want to carry on with dinner??? and t and wife have already had discussions about f

also is this just a sexual thing or a caring feeling loving ?????
if its the later then keep the friendship you have the way it is.
 
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